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budman33 · 01-11-2012, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whispers

I was not suggesting we fix anyone...

But an interesting comment......

Aren't you one of those that purport to being sensitive of the "ladies"... not just looking at the business aspect of what they do, treating them as real people with real feelings? That the manner in which I post is rude and insensitive and hurts their feelings?

Well, how can you claim all that and at the same time say "Oh... But wait a minute... She is NOT quite THAT real to me that I give a damn about her having a life threatening problem! I just want my blow and go and a little flirtation online tomorrow!"

Once again I will state I was not suggesting we fix anyone...

Just that it is rather hypocritical and un"humane" to knowingly feed someone's self destruction for your own pleasure....

Well there's a big difference between having common respect, treating everyone the way I wish to be treated and ignoring a life threatening situation.

I simply do not know about or reverse-screen escorts because out of respect for them and their choices it's not a topic that's any of my business. Now if they of their own volition start talking then it would be another matter. I learned a long time you can't really fix people unless they want to be fixed. I've dated enough strippers to know that.

IF you gain direct knowledge of the life threatening situation then that's one thing. otherwise you have to make large assumptions. The shopping traveling 'successful' escort may not have a dime in the bank and it could all come tumbling down in a weeks time. The high volume 'should have a ton of cash' escort in a shitty incall, may have all her money in investments so she can travel and shop later.

Other than that I am not getting into a back and forth because I think you are way off the mark. I can't fix you either.

Fancyinheels · 01-11-2012, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whispers

If the continued support by those that think that way takes them from a $50 a day problem to a $100 a day problem to a $200 a dayproblem to a $300 a day problem...... well... it only goes so high before it kills them doesn't it?

It's the same with any addiction, and I think that's what the hobby becomes for some, or perhaps a crutch that they lean on more and more. I'm a big believer in people taking responsibility for their own lives and pulling their pretty panties up. I have personal experience with this, so perhaps I'm a bit impatient.

Extending your reasoning to the real world, it's a justification for those factions of society who make prostitution a crime and will likely never legalize it. They feel that they are enabling a problem.

It all comes down to free will. I won't see a gentleman with a dumptruck of problems and a dependence on the hobby, and you don't have to see a provider with the same load. I would recommend both get help, but again, it's their free will to refuse, and no matter what you or I say or do, how well-meaning or what experience we have to share with them, they are either taking the high road or going down the drain.

budman33 · 01-11-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whispers

If the continued support by those that think that way takes them from a $50 a day problem to a $100 a day problem to a $200 a dayproblem to a $300 a day problem...... well... it only goes so high before it kills them doesn't it?

No, it doesn't automatically lead to that conclusion.

Rand Al'Thor · 01-11-2012, 03:08 PM

Interesting thoughts.

First the premise. I don't believe that government should be in the business of legislating what we put into our bodies. I also believe in personal responsibility. Based on these premise, I don't condemn someone for injecting arsenic into their veins. It is their choice.

If we were living in a world without cause and effect, it would be perfectly fine to say that hobbying is "a transaction of service/product for currency". We do not live in such a world. While the commercials a while back trying to link certain narcotics to funding terrorism were a bit far fetched, it is an example of things related, cause and effect, and that people do care what their money is (indirectly) spent on.

I do, however, care if those habits are linked to unsafe behavior that can impact my safety when I spend time with them. That could be hygienic issues, who they chose to spend time with, or any number of things.

As for "it's none of my business", of course it's not. On the other hand, would I want to know about it if (as unlikely as it is) she is funding terrorist cells with the money she makes? How about if her money is handed over to a manager who is not overly concerned about age of consent when recruiting new talent? Her chemical habits fund a street distributor that lives next to an elementary school? In each of these examples, she could be delivering a perfectly good session, and the transaction is great for both parties involved. Thing is, because I have choices, I would rather be observant, aware, and informed of situations like these and make other choices.

For the women, does it make a difference where the money comes from? Drug money, dirty money, blood money? What if I'm a business owner that uses a factory in <random> Asian country where child labor is rampant? Is that worse than drug money? What if I'm a pimp who slaps women around, then wants a change of scenery and come see you (staying perfectly respectful)?

Guest102513-1 · 01-12-2012, 02:35 AM

Interesting thread...and strikes close to home to me. One of my regulars, who I have seen for nearly a decade, is currently coming unravelled b4 my eyes.

Background: We started out seeing each other sporadically at first, then over the last 3 years have been doing regular overnight visits 2 to 3 times a month.

The lady is in eraly 40's, she is a survivor...was stripping and BJ's at a local strip club when she ran away from home at 14yrs. Initially was living with her soulmate when we first met. He died suddenly due to natural causes roughly a year b4 we started doing overnights. She has always had issues with forbidden substance...way back b4 I start seeing her. She never asked for advice, nor even to this day, does she verbalize anything about seeking help.

Couple of years ago, she became involved with a guy (first since her lover died) who was simply bad news. The typical abusive and controlling type. Example during first year, he kept breaking into her apartment. She would not get cops involve, apart cancel her lease because of this trouble, she then move in with guy, who among other things got her hobby phone and made numerous calls to her cliente...which up to that point had been a rather exclusive upscale group of about 6 to 8 gentlemen...most married. Many other things happen, but the hillbilly boyfriend did get her off forbidden stuff....only to turn her into an alcholic.

Prior to meeting this guy....see had a totally clean record. She finally broke with this guy around 12/1/09...but in that time incurred 4 DUI's which are currently working their way thru the system.

However once she broke from the guy....fearful that he would find her, she spent most of 2010 living in motels....nice ones, but costing her nearly $2500 to $3000mth.

During 2010, she return to using "forbidden topic" and continue to drink. As a result of the old boyfriends wild and threatening phone calls, she lost roughly 2/3's of her regular clientle. As a result of her usage during post-boyfriend period, she is now down to me and another guy.

What once was proud, independent, hard working, confident gal (she continues have a body most 20's would die for)...who without question had plenty of skeletons in her closet, but she asked for no help, and at the surface kept her shit together. Has now become an alcholic...who has 2 add'l DUI (one last Monday night), totally lost her self confidence, no longer has an admiralable client list, has exhausted her savings, is living in a rental property...which I prepaid the first 6 months so she could stop paying high motel bills and now start paying high attorney bill....and still faces the consequences of her DUI's.

Why do I bring this up....leaving lot's of details out. I have loaned her a decent amt of $$$ through things like rental, utiity legal bills...beyond our agreement. I felt by helping directly on these type of bills, rather than just add'l cash it would help her moniter her spending, at least somewhat from spending on stuff that was destructive to her. She's paid alittle of it back....but I never expected much of it paid back, I instead view it as investment into not just a regular provider I was seeing, but attempt to help a friend, so I have no problems on that front.

My hope is that she would eventually face either mandatory probation help on dealing with her taboo problems, and perhaps some needed schock time in jail. She has one attorney handling her legal issues...but he continues to get her DUI stuff continue (I am sure partially to continue collecting outstanding legal bills, as she has become a cash cow for him) from a legal standpoint, rather than having her do her probation...and hopefully get some hope. She continues to deny she has a problem in this area.

Anyway....why I bring this up for this thread....I told her, if she were to get another DUI, I was going to pull away. AS I said, she got another on Monday...I have done nothing to help her out...both for her sake, as well as society (luckily, when she has these DUI's she has always been caught sitting at the side of the road in her car, never while in the act of driving...so no danger, to this point of any one getting hurt.

This DUI was like the rest...she was sitting in her car @ McD's). She has no family, her other client is married and was only working thru me to help out. Her little dog, which has become her soul mate, and quite frankly her reason to live, is safe but in County Animal Shelter...and of course it, with her car impounded is going to cost $$$ to get out. (I am working thru a girlfriend of her's to at least get the dog out.)

But without question....way past time for her to hit bottom...problem is lawyer has bailed her out. She continues to call me crying and asking for me to call. She says she just wants to make sure I have not written her off.

But I have not reach out to her, I feel my help at this point only enables further her problems.

Not sure how I will handle this, my head clearly tells me it is time to start enjoying the compansionship of my other regular provider friends...who thank god, got their shit together.

My heart agrees with my head, but tears fill my eyes as I type this. Sometimes dealing with the humanity and compassion of long term provider friendships can be difficult. Fortunately I have others, who are more than anxious to take her place. So this really is not about replacing her.
It's more about the emotions of replacing someone who became a friend...always a troubled one, but a friend indeed.

nuglet · 01-12-2012, 10:42 AM

"Anyway....why I bring this up for this thread.....both for her sake, as well as society (luckily, when she has these DUI's she has always been caught sitting at the side of the road in her car, never while in the act of driving...so no danger, to this point of any one getting hurt."

The fact she wasn't "driving" but sitting "at the side of the road in her car" is not a mitigating fact. She was obviously driving to get there, and had the intent to continue driving if she had not been apprehended. Not being callous, but DUI's aren't the Joking/Fun story they were when most of us were kids here in Texas. Times have changed... as well as attitudes. Around here it used to be, it seemed you were required to have a beer in your lap while driving...

Guest102513-1 · 01-12-2012, 11:37 AM

Without question DUI's are no joking matter....and of course when someone is getting multiple ones they are a danger to society, beyond themselves.

The only reason why I mention that, she has always been found off the road or in parking lots is to demostrate why her attorney has been successful in continuing some of her earlier DUI's. Apparently in smaller counties this gives a shwerd attorney, alittle leverage, to postpone, but certainly not delay the legal process.

I have said to her several times, beyond the legal raminfications of her continue DUI's, the more important issue is the potential for someone to be hurt or even killed by her perhaps crossing the yellow line and heading into an innocent family.

harkontume · 01-12-2012, 12:34 PM

Hitting bottom hurts.

But the bounce is worth it.

nuglet · 01-12-2012, 12:55 PM

A few years ago I personally knew a person (male) that got LIFE the the Texas Hotel, for DUI's. (3rd time's the charm if the DA wants to play the "bitch" (habitual) card). I thought at the time it was unbelievable, but it actually happened. That's when I began to pay attention.. and quit trusting my luck. Now it seems normal to call a cab.. and sooo much cheaper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vkmaster

Without question DUI's are no joking matter....and of course when someone is getting multiple ones they are a danger to society, beyond themselves.

The only reason why I mention that, she has always been found off the road or in parking lots is to demostrate why her attorney has been successful in continuing some of her earlier DUI's. Apparently in smaller counties this gives a shwerd attorney, alittle leverage, to postpone, but certainly not delay the legal process.

I have said to her several times, beyond the legal raminfications of her continue DUI's, the more important issue is the potential for someone to be hurt or even killed by her perhaps crossing the yellow line and heading into an innocent family.

Guest102513-1 · 01-12-2012, 02:36 PM

RE: calling cab, I would imagine the places she is going to, are not places you call a cab and "order carry out", if you catch my drift

Problem in my area (and I think it's a national problem????) is the jails are way overcrowded....and that combined with state budget cuts...is that with DUI's, unless someone is hurt or killed, all they may impose is "shock" time, and even then it is usually less than minium shock time (i.e.early release). Not saying that's right...just reality.

In my friend's case she has, unintentionally, but nevertheless spread her DUIs over mutiple counties and two different states. Ultimately she will face the legal consequences....and I got to feel this most recent event (although it is in a different county) will hopefully for her sake...as well as society's...be the final straw.

Certainly some shock jail time, combined with an intense parol period which would include 30 day live-in rehab will be the first steps towards a potential recovery.

Of course, it all starts with her finally acknowledging that she has a problem which she needs to deal with. Hopefully the state budget cutbacks will not interfer with her being given a very strict probation after some shock time.

I hope that her attorney will see, his client has a real problem, and he will discontinue these constant legal "continuances" (for the sake of his client and not the continue padding of collecting his legal bills)

I guess only time will tell. I need to back away???? Because there is no way I can merely be there for moral support, 'cause I know I'll get sucked back into be more of an enabler....at least not until I truly see she has hit rock bottom, and in fact taking hard steps to climb back.

Easy to say, but tough to do without some moral reservations, or perhaps better put...as in the title of this thread...the consience side.

nuglet · 01-12-2012, 03:10 PM

I feel for you. I gave up "adopting". I too, without success, have attempted to guide, help, lead, some folks out of the forest. It's pretty much a losing battle. Good luck man.

WelpSeeYaLayer · 01-12-2012, 04:20 PM

I find it interesting how many men in this hobby and in life in general want to "help" a lady in distress. On the flip side, it amazes me how many men fail to realize that the lady in distress rarely wants your help for one reason or another. I'm fortunate to have two friends in my civie life who provide in the hobby world... from what I am told, they have just as many men who come in and want to "fix them" as oppossed to just fuck them. Imagine that, men paying upwards of $250 an hour so that they can sit down with a lady and tell her she is living her life in the wrong manner..........

Back on topic, w/out a doubt, if I know a lady has a problem, I'd rather not contribute to it. Just my personal preference.

Guest102513-1 · 01-12-2012, 04:47 PM

Thanks nuglet!!!

@WelpSeeYa....By in large, I totally agree with not playing the "Captian Sav a Hoe" role. No one can save an individual, unless that person wants to save themselves at first. And of course in this hobbyworld of ours, way to many guys want to interject themselves into the provider's private life and "fix them, rather than fuck them".

And I'm sure the same argument can be made for the situation I'm discussing...I won't argue that point.

But when you have been playing with someone, as long as this case has been (which has been years), and shared some kick ass memories of overnights, out of town trips, etc, etc. I wish I could look at it that way. Without question it would be the appropriate with the hobbyland rule book.

But for me....guess my bad....there develops a human element where she has become more than a provider. Certainly no romantic element at all, gosh no way!....but one of of a general friendship and human connection.

Fortunately I have had several other fairly long term, ongoing ties with other providers (both currently and in the past)...and I am happy to say, they have stayed exactly where they belong...solid, healthy, fun friendships based on a very cool business relationship.

But I guess perhaps that is where Whispher came up with the line in this thread of
"applying some semblance of conscience".

Not saying it's right or wrong....it just happens sometimes

sixxbach · 01-12-2012, 05:38 PM

I think of the wanting to "fix a gal" mentality stems a little from guilt. Guilt that we treat the providers simply as sex objects at our disposal for a price.

Maybe its also guilt that we are cheating on our spouse or SO regardless of how much we justify it. Maybe guilt from taking away family time from our kids to see a provider. Maybe lying to our bosses, etc.

Maybe "saving a ho" provides some kind of redemption for all our "sins".

I'm sure that is just touching the surface as to the reasons why some want to "save" some providers...

sixx

Guest102513-1 · 01-12-2012, 06:37 PM

Interesting thoughts Sixx.....but like urself, I'm a single guy, so that whole guilt issue, which I'm sure some married guys may deal with, really does not apply to either of us??

In my case, as perhaps in yours, professionally I am my own boss.

And I guess we all....despite our claims otherwise...do view providers as sex objects.
But with those that you have seen on an ongoing regular basis...over a period of time..don't they become more than a sex objective too you (and if this is getting too personal, sorry & I'm sure you will pass on this post, lol)????

Now I'm not talking girl friend material, or soul mate material....but with some, at least good fuck buddies...and of course always with a underlying business relationship.

And in terms of "redemption for all our sins"....heck I'm no angel, by any means. At the same time I'm comfortable about who I am, and totally comfortable about having the hobby life become a fun & healthy part of my life. I'm met both some great ladies and even some cool guys, who I never would have met without being in the hobby.

And Sixx, don't misread this....I'm definitely not picking a fight, definitely not trying to get to personal with ur history. Nothing like that at all. (I say this only 'cause in the past, we've had a few light misagreements, LOL).

We've never met or talked, but from your posting history, you've been around the block a few times.

Guess I'm trying to get at, have you ever gone beyond "she's just a nice piece" in terms of providers (which I'm sure u have) but also seen them self-implode and not had at least alittle "semblance of conscience" (again, which I'm sure u have) but the key question here, troubled with the decision of how far should I go, in terms of helping her????