Explicit Emails/PMs With Providers...

[CurvyKatie]

Originally Posted by Crock

You don't see the potential legal repercussions here? If you were a cop, that's ironclad evidence to use against her. If you hadn't told your little story, more things would have to happen to make a prostitution charge stick.

Exactly.

A lady would rather lose out on meeting up with one guy, then take a chance on spending a whole lot of money on legal fees and taking a ride downtown. It's not worth it.

[rcinokc]

Originally Posted by eyefo

Then I add..."and I hope we can enjoy the scenario I mentioned the other day."

You tied the appointment to the scenario. That's where you went wrong.

[eyefo]

Curvy Katie

Thanks for your input. You are correct that I should not talk.. in any form... about explicit acts.

This particular provider, however, is an Eccie provider, has MANY reviews, many of which I've read BEFORE contacting her, so there is an extremely small chance she is an undercover cop.

That aside, however, I agree its a bad habit with any provider to talk about specifics, even if you know her, have been with her etc.

So even though I've been very careful to only msg specifically with P411 providers and Eccie providers who are known well, I think there's really no upside to continuing to "push the envelope" with this.

So thanks for your wise input. I plan to eliminate explicit talk period.

As an aside I recall how confused I was when I first started seeing ladies... there were all these ads some saying VERY explicit things, some on BP but especially on Eccie and the client was supposed to get all excited about it but not mention it...Huh?

(I think the very explicit nature of the ads on Eccie may give the impression that the Eccie "campus" is something of a safe haven regarding conversation between client and providers.)

Contrary to this thread and discussion, one VERY experienced lady who is VERY well known and venerated on Eccie requires that you call her and then SPECIFICALLY tell her want you want sexually! Her voice and phone sounds quite strange, almost artificial. She actually asked me all sorts of explicit sexual and sex act questions. But no email, PM, or text allowed. This seems crazy to me and very risky... but that's how she rolled. Haven't ever seen her, and this eerie phone thing seemed very weird to me legally.
This was a couple of years ago... I assume she operates the same way now.

Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge, and I'll fully take your advice!

[LimitlessJD]

Curvy Katie needs to go to law school if she hasn’t already. She nailed it.

Regarding the phone call scenario directly above, that’s sketchy as all get out. Texas is a one party consent state. She’s an idiot for doing this because either party can record that phone call legally and it would most likely be admissible in a court case.

[LimitlessJD]

Originally Posted by rcinokc

You tied the appointment to the scenario. That's where you went wrong.

Exactly.

[eyefo]

Again, thanks to everyone for the feed back.

Though I've been in the hobby since 2011, and always try and be careful, I don't hobby much, and sometimes I find I have to get reminded of the important rules.

Since I'm older, 68, and not interested in the wild stuff in longer. I've about decided the safest and simplest thing to do is call a Licensed Massage Therapist (one who also offers additional "services"), make an appointment for a massage, say nothing else, and go.


Done properly, seems to me the chances are almost zero of getting in trouble.

[dreamvacationdates]

Originally Posted by eyefo

OK... I've been trying to construct a similar scenario that actually happened to me... so without naming the provider, I'll just tell you what happened.

I PM this lady, introduce myself, very polite, then say I'm really interested in an activity she states in her ads. I tell her I'd like to PM a bit about it, but NOT without her permission.

She replies that she doesn't really discuss services until after she's met a client in person, but she has no objection to me telling her "a scenario". OK... so I tell her the scenario, an erotic story with two people that could be any man and woman... no names.

She says she likes the story and that's the end of the explicit stuff... a "story" from me, with no discussion. She says contact me when I'd like to visit.

A number of days later I PM her and tell her the time and date I'd like to visit and she says fine. I reply saying "that's great" and that I'll text her close to appointment time and let her know I'm on my way.

Then I add..."and I hope we can enjoy the scenario I mentioned the other day."

Shortly thereafter I get an angry email from her saying she told me she does NOT talk about explicit things in email or text, that the "scenario" I sent days earlier could get her "charged"... and then she went radio silent on me.

WTF! I did not say one explicit word to her, and how the hell is she going to get "charged" and with what?

So I'm still trying to figure out what I did wrong... and I don't think I did anything wrong other than somehow pissing her off...

No talk about money or activities... just a friendly reference to an erotic "story" I had sent with her permission days earlier.

So that's my real issue here... I can't see that I did anything wrong, and I'm wondering what is going on with this lady. As a practical matter, it seems paranoid to me.

Maybe Curvy Katie can tell me what rule I broke?!

I certainly can't see any legal jeopardy in this instance.

Just a maybe here: She may have been recently jeopardized in some way and may have felt someone was viewing her texts.

[Crock]

Originally Posted by eyefo

Thanks for your input. You are correct that I should not talk.. in any form... about explicit acts.

This particular provider, however, is an Eccie provider, has MANY reviews, many of which I've read BEFORE contacting her, so there is an extremely small chance she is an undercover cop.

Sure, but what does she know about you? You're thinking of yourself, which is good, but you also need to consider the provider's perspective. She cancelled the meeting because she couldn't trust YOU.

[eyefo]

Crock... I understand the point. Its fine if she doesn't trust me.
I'm on Eccie for years, on P411 for years with a number of OKs.

These facts don't mean I'm not a rat though... I suppose I could be working for the "other side", lol, but that's rather paranoid.

Having read a number of reviews on this provider, she's flaked out on clients before, and also has had explicit talk contrary to her rule.

I think I'm going to side with Curvy Katie and worry about myself.

Most guys think with their little head and are conditioned from birth to be "obedient" to women (i.e. their mothers).

This "always considering women first" attitude, while appropriate in real life, can get you in BIG trouble in hooker world.

That's how cops catch all the low hanging poor SOB's who call up Backpage and a female cop answers.

"Hey, honey... love you to come see me...what are you looking for and I'll tell you my rates."

"Well, I'd like a blow job."

"Just so happens, honey, I'm running a special for $50 on a quickie blow job... if you can you be here in twenty I'll knock another $10 off. Cash only though Babe and you pay up front. Think you can make it?"

"Sure, can't wait."

And there you have it.

I think Curvy Katie nailed it...guys need to look out for themselves... IMHO, guys are at a distinct disadvantage in this game, and should up their game by really focusing on being safe.

Good providers are the pros and will take care of themselves and don't need our help... clients are rank amateurs by comparison and should focus on their own game.

I know I plan to from now on.

[LimitlessJD]

OP, answer me one question. Why did you feel the need to say, “and I hope we can enjoy the scenario I mentioned the other day?”

That was the issue. Plan and simple.

It shows that:

1. either you were trying to get her to commit to performing certain sex acts when she already agreed to meet you and get paid for the appointment. That equals sex act + money = prostitution.

2. You were sort of being a creepy perv who wanted her to engage in free dirty talk. Possibly while you were jacking off...

3. You are too dense to “read between the lines”and figure out she was totally down with the “scenario” so then she realized you were too idiotic for her to want to spend time with.

None of these options is good.

[eyefo]

JD

The "hows and Whys" have already been discussed.
I really don't need dumb trollish comments.

Go play in someone else's yard.

[LimitlessJD]

I really wasn’t trying to troll you. I’m simply giving you a glimpse of how this behavior is viewed. You did not explain whT made you, all of the sudden attach the scenario to the appointment. And you read Katie’s comments wrong if all you came awY from this with was to wat h out for yourself.

I’m not trying to be an ass, I’m actully trying to help you avoid this type of situation in the future and not but yourself or others In jeopardy. If you read my other posts you will see I am not a troll but tend to be rather helpful in this area.

I’m no Shyster Jon, but trust me, I know my stuff, both legally and hobby wise. But you can do what you like.

[eyefo]

OK, being polite always gets a response.

I think the simple reason I attached the scenario to the appointment request was being overly eager, inaccurate knowledge, and/or insecurity the session wouldn't happen like I wanted.

A lapse in judgement or "thinking with the little head," if you will.

In the past, I have made requests of well known and respected providers on P411 or Eccie, and they have been polite with comments like "Sounds fun" which is no discussion on their part.

But I am now discontinuing this.

So it seems important to make sure both the client and provider behave with best practices to avoid setting themselves up.

BTW, as long as you or anyone are polite, I'm quite happy to discuss things. No, I don't really think you're a troll due to your prior helpful post.

[LimitlessJD]

Bingo. This is the answer I was looking for! Thank you for delving a bit deeper. I get it, we are sensory creatures. There have been times in real life I would’ve done exactly what you did with a date from match.com. Lol. But, and it’s a big but, we just can’t do that in the hobby.

Ok, young grasshopper, go forth and fornicate, I am no longer worried about you “not fully getting it.” Sorry I had to use the shock treatment.

[Crock]

Originally Posted by eyefo

But I am now discontinuing this.

So it seems important to make sure both the client and provider behave with best practices to avoid setting themselves up.

Excellent decision.

There's a time and a place for dirty talk, but right before meeting a provider for the first time is definitely NOT it.

Personally, I would never do it before an appointment with any provider.