The Discussion Of Menu or Services Provided On This Board

[MagnificMedia]

I understand this is a legal question and would in most cases be in that forum.
But I am trying to get a general consensus of what most board members , "average joes" and fellow providers think about this. Not just the ATTYS.

When I first became familiar with this industry years ago. The number one rule was Never NEVER talk service for money!

Is that no longer the case?

WHY I ASK....

I am asked often by ladies just starting out and veterans what to do about the "Rates and Menu Please" question they get so often on this board in PMs, and even mentioned in threads and review comments.

Not long ago a lady explained to a gent who wrote asking for Rates & Menu and explained she didn't discuss those things and that her activities were listed on P411 which is a much more discreet Internet entity that ECCIE so maybe he should join so he would not have to ask. Explaining it was not a smart thing to be asking.
Well he responded by saying he was a member but he thought easier to just ask. Turns out he had 8 oks there so I would surmise he is safe legally and an experienced hobbyist. So why be careless or was he being???? Not to mention after a review by someone else he slammed her for giving him a lecture.

SO I search for clarity and others thoughts on the fact that male and female members here seem to feel bullet proof???
Many members have seem to misplace the age old " this is about companionship {wink} with a Screw it I am paying for sex and I want a guaranteed of what I am getting for my money attitude!

I mean I understand this is no longer 1960 and we show people screwing on TV and sex is so mainstream but isn't Prostitution still illegal in most states in the US and if so then isn't asking what on the menu wrong and especially associating a rate with it.?????

Honestly the shear fact that Activities and a rate can be listed in reviews baffles me.

The one thing I was always clear on is It is against the law to offer sex for money or to offer meney for sex...and anytime the discussion of the two come up it should be avoided. ( or at least I thought) It's the 1# way to be in trouble.

I was reminded of it again when reading this thread
http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=766609

From a legal stand point I want some clarification.

Thanks to the other post here is penal code for Texas: & the opinion of an atty who apparently is very familiar.

It wouldn't violate Texas state law to merely communicate with a provider on Eccie. However, if the communication was an offer or acceptance to engage in sexual conduct for a fee, the communication could prove up the offense of prostitution.

The following is the Texas state statute making plain-vanilla prostitution* a crime:

Quote:
TEXAS PENAL CODE SECTION 43.02. PROSTITUTION.

(a) A person commits an offense if he knowingly:
(1) offers to engage, agrees to engage, or engages in sexual conduct for a fee; or
(2) solicits another in a public place to engage with him in sexual conduct for hire.
(b) An offense is established under Subsection (a)(1) whether the actor is to receive or pay a fee. An offense is established under Subsection (a)(2) whether the actor solicits a person to hire him or offers to hire the person solicited.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor....
See Texas Penal Code § 43.02 (emphasis above is mine). A Class B misdemeanor is punishable by up to 180 days in county jail and/or a $2,000 fine.

(*By "plain-vanilla prostitution," I mean prostitution without an aggravating factor, such as it is a second or more commission of the offense, or prostitution involving compulsion or a minor.)

So to summarize, a person can commit the offense of prostitution in any of four ways:

(1) by making an offer to engage in sexual conduct for a fee,
(2) by accepting an offer to engage in sexual conduct for a fee,
(3) by soliciting a person in a public place to engage with the person in sexual conduct for hire (I take "for hire" to mean the same as "for a fee"), or
(4) engaging in sexual conduct for a fee.

The medium to commit the offense is irrelevant. For example, I could commit prostitution by making an offer to a provider to engage in sexual conduct for a fee by transmitting the offer in speech, writing (including an email, text, or note), pictogram, smoke signal, or even telepathically, I guess. Haha.

With the foregoing in mind, if your office computer contains a communication that could be read as either an offer or acceptance to engage in sexual conduct for a fee, it could be used as evidence in making a prostitution case against you.

But in a real-world context, a number of steps would have to be taken for you to be charged. First, a person would have to find the communication. Second, the person would need to transmit the communication to the relevant law enforcement authority. Third, the authority would need to make a report and convey it to the district attorney. Finally, the DA would need to charge you. (In Texas, a person is usually charged with a misdemeanor by a DA signing a charging instrument called an "information.") In my opinion, based on having handled hundreds of prostitution cases in Texas over more than 20 years, the likelihood of all these steps occurring is slim to none. However, my opinion might change if your computer has many offers and acceptances recorded on it.
****************************** **************************

So I put this out for all to express their knowledge opinion and conjecture about!

[Fancyinheels]

I'm just going to say it simply: I sell time, not sex. What happens in that time is between two consenting adults. (And when a gentleman buys time with me, he gets every second, plus some. Often the girls being really public about selling you-know-what are also the ones that get up and leave after you-know-what when the gentleman still has 45 minutes left in his session.)

I actually do get a wee bit irritated with fellows who openly insist that they are buying sexual activities and/or want a menu rundown. (Do they not know about the review section?) Those guys (notice that I have stopped using the word "gentlemen") who email or phone me and just outright ask what my rates and services are (particularly those who inquire boldly about acts they desire) get referred to my Showcase or website, if I don't ignore them completely. I will not discuss money or specifics with someone I don't already know and have not screened. We really are much too blatant on ECCIE, and that false sense of security will get some of us in trouble eventually.

FYI:
1 By the way, ladies, the many lurkers on ECCIE cannot see the rate line on your Showcases. That's a member-only benefit. If they're lurking here, they probably don't belong to P411, either, so if you don't have a website, then you have the quandary of deciding what to discuss with them. GET A WEBSITE, or as least post your rates in your ads.
2. Did you know that we are forbidden from using acronyms in our signature lines? The mods do a good job of keeping them out of Houston, but I see providers in other cities posting very incriminating things in their sigs with no regard for who sees them.

We have to assume LE is reading every post, that every newbie is LE, and heck, every member who doesn't post or review is LE. Lately I have been getting quite a few inappropriate requests off ECCIE, which troubles me as this is a new trend.

[gimme_that]

Fuck all the hoopla. Ill ask, especially if she doesn't have the rates I need posted or the services I'm seeking in her p411 profile.......or her reviews. I hate asking like the ladys hate answering.....but if I can't find the answer and she won't reveal it after screening I'm not taking the chance she might do anything. I research but when that doesn't turn up anything I will ask, or just go to the next provider that will accommodate the request.

[pyramider]

Holy Tebow!! The vast majority of the fucktards read, enjoy the reviews, and take them to heart. Do your own research and you will have a good idea what could possibly be offered. I always look for BBCR and taint tickling when I do a Search.

[MaxiMilyen]

Originally Posted by gimme_that

Fuck all the hoopla. Ill ask, especially if she doesn't have the rates I need posted or the services I'm seeking in her p411 profile.......or her reviews. I hate asking like the ladys hate answering.....but if I can't find the answer and she won't reveal it after screening I'm not taking the chance she might do anything. I research but when that doesn't turn up anything I will ask, or just go to the next provider that will accommodate the request.

In all this delicate bluntly asking about such, does what you've researched about activities and rates often change from that which is readily available for your viewing pleasure, even though the info you sought is missing for some odd reason? Do they mostly ignore you? Do they come back quickly and and ask, "what is it you wanna hear, lover? or maybe, "it makes me hot when ya try to low ball(you said "rates I need", so I assume you're price haggling, which I shouldn't assume, but I do anyway...LOL) or ask for services I've never provided another, but I am all over wanting to accommodate you?" And when you say "anything", is that code for "what I want, but it appears ya don't offer, cause I ain't seein' anyone else boast of you doing so, and I know ya must, because it's what I want, so, are ya gonna offer that to me cause I want it, and don't upsell, cause I'm already trying to low ball your rates and a quick response would be nice, because there are ten others I got this wheeling and dealing thang goin' on with and the first to fall in place with what I want, is the lucky winner of "gimme_that?"

lol Please. Elaborate.

[gimme_that]

Max this doesn't have anything to do with price haggling at all.... this is clearly when the rates and duration of time is not offered via her website or p411 profile.....

I have yet to run into many ladies who don't at some point prior to meeting confirm their rate. and they take the time with me to gauge their comfortability. Because I'm booking large blocks of time. If she is ymmv(your miles may vary) at that point with her services she can reveal that to her hearts discretion.....and mdmv (my donation may vary) if the same features aren't offered. I see nothing wrong in doing that.

Just to simplify everything I'm saying. After screening I don't want to go through hoops. A lot of ladies don't include rates past 2 hours on either their site or p411. Some only click the subjective activities on their p411 like "GFE" and "PSE"........and who knows she may define that as both as no kissing and CBJ which are NO GO's for me. And least we forget the ladies that post "inquire about other rates." Which usually more times than not is the case for me. References make things easier.

Now your typical backpage chick most times won't speak on it.....if they don't I automatically assume they don't offer what I want and thank them for their consideration. They don't screen or use references most times so they are more on edge as far as LE. They usually call back or text though...its about 50 percent response with BP chicks. So not a good number. Even when I contact a BP chick I still desire top notch services I like,.....I still inquire about reviews, and I still ask about the rates.

And also I pretty much use eccie, and p411 as my main sources of info....or backchannel reports. I don't use the oThER board. So even if she has reviews there and not here I can't view the services.....so I will in fact ask. And most ladies won't mind revealing. Some do, and as soon as they feel some kinda way about me asking or them answering, I contact the next provider I want to see. Again someone always comes through.

Originally Posted by Fancyinheels

FYI:
1 By the way, ladies, the many lurkers on ECCIE cannot see the rate line on your Showcases. That's a premium access or paid[FONT=Georgia][SIZE=5][COLOR=Red] member-only benefit. If they're lurking here, they probably don't belong to P411, either, so if you don't have a website, then you have the quandary of deciding what to discuss with them. GET A WEBSITE, or as least post your rates in your ads.

Thanks for including this.

[MaxiMilyen]

Thanks for killing the 'dude".....sensitive provider that I am....LOL

Also, thanks for elaborating...... much better and makes ya seem a little more provider friendly, and a lot less flea market pushy and demanding customer. Kuddos!

[Fancyinheels]

Ahhh, now I wasn't aware that the Showcase rate line was premium access only. I thought all regular members could see it. Good to know, and that, plus the ROS on reviews, make a paid membership very attractive to gentlemen, I would think.

It really just comes down to communication skills: we companions need to fully state what we offer in a way that won't compromise us but still inform and attract callers. Should a gentleman not find the info he wants from an ad, profile, or website, well, I wouldn't blame him for stopping right there. However, should he need to inquire further, he should do so with some modicum of politeness, taste, and discretion, not only so he won't scare the lady off, but for his own protection.

It's a fine line we tread to avoid crossing a line.

[gimme_that]

Originally Posted by Fancyinheels

It really just comes down to communication skills: we companions need to fully state what we offer in a way that won't compromise us but still inform and attract callers. Should a gentleman not find the info he wants from an ad, profile, or website, well, I wouldn't blame him for stopping right there. However, should he need to inquire further, he should do so with some modicum of politeness, taste, and discretion, not only so he won't scare the lady off, but for his own protection.

Ill give you an example of an issue I had with a reputable independent.

1. I called her and told her I was trying to book an overnight the next day, with a time and place.......

2. She had her rates posted and a p411 page, but no reviews. So I wondered about my favorite services....conviently placed in my profile.

3. She said she would need to screen me first with references before divulging said services. Even though I had many oks.

4. I told her I don't see the need in contacting my refs yet, since I didn't know definitively if I will see her if my profile preferences of services aren't her preferred ones or ones see offered.

5. She said well I can't answer that until your screened....

6. She screens me...many hours pass.

7. The next day 6 hours before the appointment time I wanted....and of course nothing has been confirmed yet................. she tells me she does not kiss, is only CBJ, and does no on top activities.

8. I decline the meet based on the less than stellar services pointed out in my profile I would not be interested in.

9. She states via email I wasted her time.

So who wasted who's time. Had she said that from the get go the communication would have been short. Luckily I found a replacement...but its still a letdown.

[Fancyinheels]

The first thing your first choice should have done was check your profile, GT (not to mention your sig line here, which plainly states what you want) and actually READ it before she bothered to go further, as then she would have seen that you two were incompatible from the get go.

What we have here is a failure to communicate on her part due to, in my opinion, a lack of research. It was better that you found your replacement, even if you were disappointed about not getting into the first provider - literally.

A wee bit of paranoia doesn't mean someone isn't out to get us. However, each gentleman has to be screened on a case-by-case basis. One set of standards with no deviation doesn't work well. We have to be safe, but flexible, too. It's not easy.

However, I have to agree with the OP that, generally speaking, many lads and lassies are not being careful enough.

Also, for Heaven's sake, if you belong to ECCIE or P411, sent a pm through those systems as first contact to lend yourselves some credibility, then we can chat by phone or email. I run into the "Oh, by the way, I'm a member of..." scenario frequently, usually after several emails or discovered through independent screening. Why don't fellows just tell me right off the bat and save us both some time???

[pyramider]

All this menu talk has me kinda hungry ... anyone interested in wings and red sauce?

[Cpalmson]

I think that once a provider has screened a client and has agreed in principle to meet him, anything and everything should be up for discussion to include rates and services. Face it, once an agreement to see someone has been made (usually the provider accepting the screening info she has), you've already "broken" the law; therefore, you are doing no more harm by inquiring within.

Additionally, there are many reasons to ask questions. First on rates, I want to make sure I bring what the lady is expecting. I think it is good sense (or cents) to make sure the donation amount is right. Second, asking about services reconfirms what her reviews may or may not say. Let's just say not every review is 100% trust worthy. A client may read a review and go damn, I want that. When he gets there the lady is either YMMV or she'll say "I don't do that and whoever said I did is a liar". Let's put it this way, would you show up at the car dealership not knowing what the price of the car would be? Would you pay for a Bentley and the when you show up the dealer says "sorry the Bentley is not available, Would you like our last Yugo?"

[Danielle Reid]

I sell pussy for money. No LE or judge will buy the "they were only paying for my time, Mr. police man". Some guys just want to sit and talk and stroke my hair. Other guys give me the ride of my life (good or bad). If someone PMs me about rates I'll tell him straight what I charge per hour. I also have FBSM and Lollipop Special.

Anyone with half a brain can read my reviews and find a sample of my menu and rates. No point in hiding it.

[MaxiMilyen]

Originally Posted by MaryBeth

I sell pussy for money. No LE or judge will buy the "they were only paying for my time, Mr. police man". Some guys just want to sit and talk and stroke my hair. Other guys give me the ride of my life (good or bad). If someone PMs me about rates I'll tell him straight what I charge per hour. I also have FBSM and Lollipop Special.

Anyone with half a brain can read my reviews and find a sample of my menu and rates. No point in hiding it.

I'm a kind of lay it out there person as well. Don't like lying or hiding. It is what it is kind of attitude. The duality many have a need to subscribe to in this hobby was something very foreign to me personally, but I understood the needs others had for it. However, as with anything, one evolves through experience and their capability to comprehend all aspects and possible repercussions of decisions made in this lifestyle. The need to keep things simple and upfront isn't quite as easy a task as one might think, especially upon learning all that actually should be considered and has been debated(nearly to death at times...LOL) on a board of this nature.

I see you're join date as March of this year. It will be interesting to know and see how your perspective and views change about many topics in the hobby. Of course, I have this insatiable need to know everything about this, and many other, situations and things that affect me and those around me, including my job. (I hate to call what I do a job, but hey, it is. Just a really fun one at times!) So, while I understand you may believe that you may never change your stance or your views as I, and multitudes of others have about certain things here, my perceptions and experiences indicate there are not many who can maintain all their original views and perceptions. No matter how stubborn they may be or how "right" they believed they were at the time....LOL

As with anything, our conclusions are our own, and each will be unique and different, even if just the tiniest fraction of a degree in difference. This is because our experiences and perceptions are unique to us all. Try sitting a hobbyist and provider down, immediately after a session, and have each write an honest review. I guarantee they won't be exactly the same. How we perceive as individuals, negates this.

My point, and yes I know, it took me forever to get to it, things are not always as black and white as many of us would like them to be. Your stance that "there is no point hiding it", which I wish were as black and white as it looks, could change in time. For you, there is no point in hiding it at this time, something you learn or experience next week could change your stance on that statement. ijs

Whew....I need to break out some toys or something and try lightening the f** up this morning. LOL Anyone know a good joke? LOL

[Fancyinheels]

Originally Posted by M A X

... I see you're join date as March of this year. It will be interesting to know and see how your perspective and views change about many topics in the hobby. Of course, I have this insatiable need to know everything about this, and many other, situations and things that affect me and those around me, including my job. (I hate to call what I do a job, but hey, it is. Just a really fun one at times!) So, while I understand you may believe that you may never change your stance or your views as I, and multitudes of others have about certain things here, my perceptions and experiences indicate there are not many who can maintain all their original views and perceptions. No matter how stubborn they may be or how "right" they believed they were at the time....LOL ....

.... My point, and yes I know, it took me forever to get to it, things are not always as black and white as many of us would like them to be. Your stance that "there is no point hiding it", which I wish were as black and white as it looks, could change in time. For you, there is no point in hiding it at this time, something you learn or experience next week could change your stance on that statement. ijs ....

^^ Yep. ^^