Educating Inmates

[jackfengshui]

I hope I am not stirring up too much controversy by discussing this subject that came up as an aside in another thread.

I agree it seems unfair, on the surface, to offer inmates subsidized education without giving all law-abiding citizens on the outside similar benefits. However, this is not such a simplistic black-and-white issue. Our prisons now mainly provide punishment and very little rehabilitation. Criminals go there to rot and become hardened and bitter for a few years and then are released in worse shape than when they went it. Without any improvement in their personal situation, many end up returning to crime, hurt more people, and get back to prison again and again.

This revolving door is very costly to society both in terms of people getting victimized by the repeat criminals and the high costs of maintaining our LE and prison system. Yes, it sounds unfair, but in the long run, if we can help inmates become wage-earners, it saves taxpayers' money, reduces crime, and makes our society safer. It is in our own self-interest to do so.

[jackfengshui]

To put it in a dollars-and-cents perspective, it is already costing $60,000 a year just to lock up an inmate without offering any rehab in New York state. The proposed additional $5,000 to educate him and reduce the chance of his committing crime again seems cost-effective.

It is much cheaper to educate an inmate than the average undergraduate on the outside, because he already has room and board, recreation and healthcare, and is a "captive" audience who does not get distracted by social or work obligations or go AWOL.

[offshoredrilling]

mmmmm not sold yet
keep trying anyways

[JohnnyCap]

I'd start by saying everyone on the outside should already have healthcare before the inmate gets it, nevermind education.

I completely understand the sentiment behind the OP, and agree changes are necessary. But when the fact is put forth that it costs $60k to incarcerate, I say get that number down by at least 75%. Make it truly awful. Many of the folks are in there because their response to the prospect of working for minimum wage (which should be lower) was 'Fuck that.' Let's educate them on what it truly means to fuck that, rather than giving them a benefit unavailable to the persons who took the minimum wage job.

[elghund]

Jack,

What would make it better is that the inmates be put on some sort of college loan, just like everyone.

In their case....lack of repayment could mean re-incarceration.

The ones against this might be able to support it then.

elg.......

[mad469s]

Originally Posted by jackfengshui

I hope I am not stirring up too much controversy by discussing this subject that came up as an aside in another thread.

I agree it seems unfair, on the surface, to offer inmates subsidized education without giving all law-abiding citizens on the outside similar benefits. However, this is not such a simplistic black-and-white issue. Our prisons now mainly provide punishment and very little rehabilitation. Criminals go there to rot and become hardened and bitter for a few years and then are released in worse shape than when they went it. Without any improvement in their personal situation, many end up returning to crime, hurt more people, and get back to prison again and again.

This revolving door is very costly to society both in terms of people getting victimized by the repeat criminals and the high costs of maintaining our LE and prison system. Yes, it sounds unfair, but in the long run, if we can help inmates become wage-earners, it saves taxpayers' money, reduces crime, and makes our society safer. It is in our own self-interest to do so.

Now, how's an idea, while they're getting the education for free, why not also have a job placement program as well. I mean hell Albany is already ASS RAPING us on taxes WTF is a few more dollars.

[mad469s]

I can hear Cuomo now, "If you don't agree with the prisoner college education program/act, then you have no business living in this state, because that's what we stand for". Just like he said concerning the safe act, and same sex marriage.

[Guest070916]

While it may appear a well intentioned idea, the real problem is many in prison are not college material. Many are high school dropouts, that may help explain their being in prison in the first place and have little chance making a go of college. Just look at the stats of those kids who qualify to get into college and how many of those never graduate. There are colleges that report around 50% of their students never make it to graduation due to dropping out or being thrown out.

[mad469s]

Originally Posted by Celso

While it may appear a well intentioned idea, the real problem is many in prison are not college material. Many are high school dropouts, that may help explain their being in prison in the first place and have little chance making a go of college. Just look at the stats of those kids who qualify to get into college and how many of those never graduate. There are colleges that report around 50% of their students never make it to graduation due to dropping out or being thrown out.

Good point, I never looked at it through the "actual" stats goggles.

[The Drummer]

Originally Posted by Celso

While it may appear a well intentioned idea, the real problem is many in prison are not college material. Many are high school dropouts, that may help explain their being in prison in the first place and have little chance making a go of college. Just look at the stats of those kids who qualify to get into college and how many of those never graduate. There are colleges that report around 50% of their students never make it to graduation due to dropping out or being thrown out.

I'm not against anyone truly wanting to redeem and better themselves, but I do agree with the above.

In the early part of the 20th Century, school systems recognized shortcomings in pupils -- even at the elementary level.

If you do some research you'll see that the Rochester area had many fine trade schools that complimented students' aptitudes or lack thereof.

Today's cookie-cutter educational model doesn't customize learning, and the powers that be are finally becoming aware of this and looking backward.

So, as for the incarcerated; it's not an absolute (college degree or no college degree). There are many worthwhile trades that are valuable to society in which inmates can be taught, hence, when they're released, they have the chance to be productive.

As an aside, here's an even better one: I read or heard somewhere that as just another perquisite to being a member of Congress, all members' children shall have their student loans forgiven. Un-fuckin' believable.

[jackfengshui]

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses.

I am not hung up on college vs vocational education or whether it should be on a free or loaned basis. What I am mainly advocating for is more emphasis on rehabilitation and preparing the inmate to return to society as a useful citizen. Yes, it might cost the taxpayers a little bit, but it will pay off in reducing revolving-door criminality, multiple incarcerations, and future victims of repeated criminals.

[The Drummer]

Hi Jack,

We understand your thought process with concern to social and fiscal responsibility. But, what's in question remains the efficacy of such a policy.

TD

[Guest042416]

Jack you m ake some good points, but outside of prison we have some issues where tax money could be better served, so that first then yes I agree with you jack some help there with money would help in the long run.

We also need to deal with the ever growin inner city problem, education, fathers not around, too many kids, etc

I don't like either party both have their hands in the pocket at our expense.
Ive never understood the stance of against giving BP to people especially the poor or the right to ab ortion when after the face we want to cut off all the funding for them when born and we gonna pay for them anyway one way or another.

Changes need to happen but both parties have their hands and their greed for themselves not us.

Everyone claims its a democracy here, I beg to differ, money and who has it decides the races and who wins, not a fair shake

[jackfengshui]

Originally Posted by The Drummer

Hi Jack,
We understand your thought process with concern to social and fiscal responsibility. But, what's in question remains the efficacy of such a policy.

I don't think it is a panacea. In fact, there might not be too many takers of this one program. I think we have to try a variety of approaches, and I for one am all ears about good ideas from anyone.

Given the proven failings of our criminal justice system which is already locking up more of our citizens than any democratic country on earth and costing us a huge fortune, doing nothing is not an option.

[Guest042416]

Corruption and power and elected officials needing high arrest records add to the issue.

Also latinos and Blacks are arrested at a much higher rate than whites. They also don't have money to get a good lawyer to get them off as people that have money.

The system is not fair, many flaws, but I also believe in the death penalty and strict crimes for those that have raped,killed, or assaulted a women, I think those people should get the big ax on life and no rehab there, other crimes yes rehab can work.

just my thoughts.
A guy that rapes a women or a young girl should not be out in 5 years, hell in my book he should be out, out of this world and in the ground, that will save money AND IT WILL set an example and maybe crime will go down.