Why? Legalize Prostitution in USA?

[Guest112113-3]

I want to consider myself somewhat a smart person, not brilliant, but definitely not stupid, and like to note that I do have very good common sense. When I'm question something, I try my best to look at it in different angles on how people look at something. Most of the time when I do this and really sit down and think out, I see the other persons perspective....with that I learn and gain.

But...........

I have yet to figure out why any provider in the business here, HDH or otherwise would ever want Prostitution in the US to be legalized. I know that there are a few HDH's here and others non-HDH's, along with clients that have their opinion on such and I would love to hear those reasons. I personally do not see any reward in it, but willing to learn today from all of you.

1. Please provide your reason as a "yes" to "no" that you would like to see legalization.
2. Why you think that is right or wrong.
3. How do you think this will effect you personally?
4. How do you think this would effect everyone else?
5. Would the prices of Provider go up or down?
6. And if safety plays a factor?
7. How would regulation of the industry take place?

Thanks and looking forward to everyone's perspective, those involved in the movement and those that are not.

[Camille]

Legalize no. Decriminalize yes.

1. Men/women will not have to shrink into the shadows if hurt/robbed. Granted many will still not step forwards BUT they at least have the option.

2. Not sure what you are asking...why do I think what is right or wrong (sorry Woody....maybe it's just me??)

3. On a personal level, I would have had much more leverage to do something about the situation I had to deal with last year when assaulted and robbed.

4. Much the same way as 3. If people have more leverage, people who behave badly are at a higher risk..because others have the option to then do something. Not quite sure if regulation would come in with decriminaliztion..or whether that just applies to legalizing it. The latter I think.

5. For the legit providers probably neither.

6. That's the major point I would think of decrim for ladies...and yes it would also play a factor in legalizing. One thing though..just because something is made legal doesnt mean people will step out from behind the veil and register. Many women would not dream of registering as a sex worker..due to current and future stigma that is attached by the larger moral society. That's been discussed at length elsewhere. Some would though...so I guess the question is..is the benefit higher from decrim or legalizing? And to whom?

7. In other places that legalize sex work (of this type) women have to register. If the dont register and get caught, tough penalties. When regsitered... STD screening on a regular basis...brothels are also registered which should, in theory, provide a safe haven for women and men etc. I believe in Germany (or at least parts of it) you cannot work independently even if registered. You have to work from a registered brothel. It's done to keep the men and women safe, women screened and keep men and women from walking the streets. It creates control over zoning. What % of women register vs don't I have no idea.

I think in the US go for decrim. I don't see legalizing ever happening here.

[ANONONE]

If you legalize it, prices will not go down. Taxes and user fees would make up for any reduction in price on the lady's part as a result of lower risk, lower fee.

Now decriminalizing it is an interesting option. If the stigma and legality of the business is reduced, competition would increase and prices would fall as the market dictates.

I would not hold your breath for decriminalization. The only way the government would agree to changing the laws would be if they got tax revenue from the activity, and most likely at an exorbitant rate (think vice taxes like alcohol and tobacco).

[Camille]

One thing for you to consider Woody...
In Germany, the legalization of prostitution is enforced by regulation (as outlined above). In England, the legalization of prostitution is NOT regulated (i.e. you do not have register) so the law tries to combat zoning and trafficking by making it illegal to solicit in a public place (including kerb crawling) and illegal to have more than one person working from an incall (more than one women = brothel under UK law which is illegal). It is also illegal for agencies to "control" women. Also, under the 2009 police and crime act, you can now be charged (uk) for paying for sex with a woman if she has been forced..even if you don't know she has been forced. Puts a lot of emphasis on the man...
As a sidenote, it always surprises me that so many men use agencies in the UK rather than indys given the potential risk attached. It's brothels and agencies that get busted and publicly exposed in UK..not indys.
I am also surprised that the UK is not listed as a common destination for traffickers within this report given its relaxed attitude towards prostitution:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6497799.stm



"According to a report last year by UNODC, countries that were major sources of trafficked persons included Thailand, China, Nigeria, Albania, Bulgaria, Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine.
Thailand, Japan, Israel, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Turkey and the US were the most common destinations, the report said."

Soooo...would decrim help women that are being trafficked to step forwards without reprisal?
Would they actually do so?

C

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by ANONONE

If you legalize it, prices will not go down.).

You state that seemingly with a great deal of authority. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I'm just curious if anyone has some real data on what happens in countries where it has been legalized, decriminalized or in some other way had a change in legality? Obviously we want to try to stay as apples to apple and not compare an illegal street walker experience to a legalized brothel or spa experience.

This is pruly annecdotal, certainly not definitive, & not a clean comparision it seems to me based on my out of country hobby experiences where things are legal it seems less expensive (even if I tried to normalize for cost of living, say the cost of a business class hotel or a Big Mac)

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Camille

One thing for you to consider Woody...
In Germany, the legalization of prostitution is enforced by regulation (as outlined above). In England, the legalization of prostitution is NOT regulated (i.e. you do not have register) so the law tries to combat zoning and trafficking by making it illegal to solicit in a public place (including kerb crawling) and illegal to have more than one person working from an incall (more than one women = brothel under UK law which is illegal). It is also illegal for agencies to "control" women. Also, under the 2009 police and crime act, you can now be charged (uk) for paying for sex with a woman if she has been forced..even if you don't know she has been forced. Puts a lot of emphasis on the man...
As a sidenote, it always surprises me that so many men use agencies in the UK rather than indys given the potential risk attached. It's brothels and agencies that get busted and publicly exposed in UK..not indys.
I am also surprised that the UK is not listed as a common destination for traffickers within this report given its relaxed attitude towards prostitution:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6497799.stm



"According to a report last year by UNODC, countries that were major sources of trafficked persons included Thailand, China, Nigeria, Albania, Bulgaria, Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine.
Thailand, Japan, Israel, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Turkey and the US were the most common destinations, the report said."

Soooo...would decrim help women that are being trafficked to step forwards without reprisal?
Would they actually do so?

C

If you read the whole link it seems misleading at best. Example under Sex trade, if you read the whole paragraph you realize that they are combining sex workers with day labourers. Not that slave labor is ok but it sure inflates the sex trade traffic numbers. That is how they get funded. My guess is that in the UK they are not falling for these phoney numbers. There is a difference between being forced to do something and choosing to do something you might not care for. I suspect these UN reports would have trouble with that distinction.



Sex trade
According to a report last year by UNODC, countries that were major sources of trafficked persons included Thailand, China, Nigeria, Albania, Bulgaria, Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine.
Thailand, Japan, Israel, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Turkey and the US were the most common destinations, the report said.
There are no exact statistics on the number of people affected globally.
But according to UNODC, experts believe that some 2.5 million people throughout the world are at any given time the victims of human trafficking. Many of these are women and young girls forced to work in the sex industry, while others are men forced to work as labourers in dangerous conditions for little or no pay, the UN agency said.

[oden]

I believe that even with decriminalization/legalization there would be a fair number of gals and gents that would form a black market rather than face the social stigma of participating "out in the open".

[John Bull]

Wouldn't affect the Courtesan or even the higher end indies, I would think. Neither are dependent on agencies or pimps and I would suspect, given the type of clientel, their need for protection and normal, out in the open, advertising would be minimized.

[javanuts]

Originally Posted by oden

I believe that even with decriminalization/legalization there would be a fair number of gals and gents that would form a black market rather than face the social stigma of participating "out in the open".

I also believe that this would create a "black market" so to speak. I've spoken with several providers about this very topic and many would never register as a sex worker. Could you imagine the stigma attached to such a title? etc: Employment, school, social circles, housing... I think this would create exploitation of women. How badly do you want this position? What are you willing to do for me for the job?

[Guest112113-3]

Originally Posted by Camille

2. Not sure what you are asking...why do I think what is right or wrong (sorry Woody....maybe it's just me??)

I guess I didn't explain well but this comment would be in regard to your answer in question #1, why you said yes or no to legalization.

I didn't really ask allot about "Decriminalization", I figured this would take years after legalization would even go in effect. Thou I should have asked this in conjunction because one will go hand in hand over time, thou that time might be a decade or more, example race and sex discrimination is still in effect today thou changing daily..

Sure hope to hear from Lynette Marie on this......

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by Camille

In England, the legalization of prostitution is NOT regulated (i.e. you do not have register) so the law tries to combat zoning and trafficking by making it illegal to solicit in a public place (including kerb crawling) and illegal to have more than one person working from an incall (more than one women = brothel under UK law which is illegal). It is also illegal for agencies to "control" women. Also, under the 2009 police and crime act, you can now be charged (uk) for paying for sex with a woman if she has been forced..even if you don't know she has been forced. Puts a lot of emphasis on the man...
As a sidenote, it always surprises me that so many men use agencies in the UK rather than indys given the potential risk attached. It's brothels and agencies that get busted and publicly exposed in UK..not indys.

Interesting. I did not know any of that.

As a possible explanation for your surprise though (related to agency use)...it could be that using a reputable agency might be a better method to steer clear of the "police and crime act" law. Having a gal say she is independent is no assurance that she is...or that she is not being forced (in an unknown manner). If I were a Brit...and had had some knowledge of this liability for being with a forced gal (even if I was unaware)...giving my business to a reputable agency might be a safer bet than an indy.

I don't want to get popped in any event. But a law that says I have to verify "free will" would give me a lot of pause.

[TexTushHog]

Agencies in the UK are essentially advertising cooperatives and run more loosely than here. The girl works out of an apartment that may or may not be provided by the agency, but she almost always works alone out of the apartment on the day she works there. Otherwise, she and/or the agency would run afoul of the "keeping a brothel" statute. But the girls are almost independent contractors, to use a term of U.S. law.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

If I were a Brit...

You're Rudyard K mate!

[LaurenLynn]

Legalization is primarily a human rights issue. Currently, there is little to no recourse when a sex worker is assaulted or robbed. An entire group of people is marginalized by the legal system. Eradicating this condition is sufficient reason for legalization.

Additionally, legalization legitimizes sex work as work. It’s not quite like being an IRS agent, but it is a valid, necessary occupation which benefits society in many ways.

Access to services would be much simpler. Finding an accountant, attorney, renting an apartment and purchasing a car or house are much easier with legal occupations.

I think the effects would be positive. The results of legalization in New Zealand are increased safety, security and acceptance of sex workers.

A safe and at ease sex worker is a happy sex worker. Who doesn’t want happy sex workers?

I’ve just started thinking about these things, so I don’t have too many thoughts on regulation.

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by WTF

You're Rudyard K mate!

Touche'. Sometimes I forget.

I get to thinking I'm Rudy...playing football for ND.