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Old 05-26-2012, 10:22 PM   #1
Sexyeccentric1
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Default Sharia myth sweeps America

Do any of you really have a good understanding of what Sharia law is aside from what you have been told by the paranoia of others and some news media outlets?

I was doing a little researching and found these interesting articles. Apparently Hasidic Jews have their laws too that are sometimes used and consulted in court cases here in America. In fact "US courts have regularly interpreted foregn law in commercial disputes between two litigants from different countries, or custody agreements brokered in another country. In those cases Islamic law is treated like any other foreign law or Catholic canon law".

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USA Today News Article "Sharia myth sweeps America

If you are not vitally concerned about the possibility of radical Muslims infiltrating the U.S. government and establishing a Taliban-style theocracy, then you are not a candidate for the GOP presidential nomination. In addition to talking about tax policy and Afghanistan, Republican candidates have also felt the need to speak out against the menace of "sharia."

Former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum refers to sharia as "an existential threat" to the United States. Pizza magnate Herman Cain declared in March that he would not appoint a Muslim to a Cabinet position or judgeship because "there is this attempt to gradually ease sharia law and the Muslim faith into our government. It does not belong in our government."


The generally measured campaign of former Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty leapt into panic mode over reports that during his governorship, a Minnesota agency had created a sharia-compliant mortgage program to help Muslim homebuyers. "As soon as Gov. Pawlenty became aware of the issue," spokesman Alex Conant assured reporters, "he personally ordered it shut down."


Former House speaker Newt Gingrich has been perhaps the most focused on the sharia threat. "We should have a federal law that says under no circumstances in any jurisdiction in the United States will sharia be used," Gingrich announced at last fall's Values Voters Summit. He also called for the removal of Supreme Court justices (a lifetime appointment) if they disagreed.


Gingrich's call for a federal law banning sharia has gone unheeded so far. But at the local level, nearly two dozen states have introduced or passed laws in the past two years to ban the use of sharia in court cases.
Despite all of the activity to monitor and restrict sharia, however, there remains a great deal of confusion about what it actually is. It's worth taking a look at some facts to understand why an Islamic code has become such a watchword in the 2012 presidential campaign.


What is sharia?

More than a specific set of laws, sharia is a process through which Muslim scholars and jurists determine God's will and moral guidance as they apply to every aspect of a Muslim's life. They study the Quran, as well as the conduct and sayings of the Prophet Mohammed, and sometimes try to arrive at consensus about Islamic law. But different jurists can arrive at very different interpretations of sharia, and it has changed over the centuries.


Importantly, unlike the U.S. Constitution or the Ten Commandments, there is no one document that outlines universally agreed upon sharia.


Then how do Muslim countries use sharia for their systems of justice?

There are indeed some violent and extreme interpretations of sharia. That is what the Taliban used to rule Afghanistan. In other countries, sharia may be primarily used to govern contracts and other agreements. And in a country like Turkey, which is majority Muslim, the national legal system is secular, although individual Muslims may follow sharia in their personal religious observances such as prayer and fasting. In general, to say that a person follows sharia is to say that she is a practicing Muslim.


How and when is it used in U.S. courts?

Sharia is sometimes consulted in civil cases with Muslim litigants who may request a Muslim arbitrator. These may involve issues of marriage contracts or commercial agreements, or probating an Islamic will. They are no different than the practice of judges allowing orthodox Jews to resolve some matters in Jewish courts, also known as beth din.



U.S. courts also regularly interpret foreign law in commercial disputes between two litigants from different countries, or custody agreements brokered in another country. In those cases, Islamic law is treated like any other foreign law or Catholic canon law.


What about extreme punishments like stoning or beheading?

U.S. judges may decide to consider foreign law or religious codes like sharia, but that doesn't mean those laws override the Constitution. We have a criminal justice system that no outside law can supersede. Additionally, judges consider foreign laws only if they choose to — they can always refuse to recognize a foreign law.


So if sharia is consulted only in certain cases and only at the discretion of the court, why has it become such a high priority for states and GOP candidates? One answer is that sharia opponents believe they need to act not to prevent the way Islamic law is currently used in the U.S. but to prevent a coming takeover by Muslim extremists. The sponsor of an Oklahoma measure banning sharia approved by voters last fall described it as "a pre-emptive strike." Others, like the conservative Center for Security Policy, assert that all Muslims are bound to work to establish an Islamic state in the U.S.


But if that was true — and the very allegation labels every Muslim in America a national security threat — the creeping Islamic theocracy movement is creeping very slowly. Muslims first moved to the Detroit suburb of Dearborn, for example, nearly a century ago to work in Henry Ford's factories. For most of the past 100 years, Dearborn has been home to the largest community of Arabs in the U.S. And yet after five or six generations, Dearborn's Muslims have not sought to see the city run in accordance with sharia. Bars and the occasional strip clubs dot the town's avenues, and a pork sausage factory is located next to the city's first mosque.


Maybe Dearborn's Muslims are just running a very drawn-out head fake on the country. It's hard to avoid the more likely conclusion, however, that politicians who cry "Sharia!" are engaging in one of the oldest and least-proud political traditions — xenophobic demagoguery. One of the easiest ways to spot its use is when politicians carelessly throw around a word simply because it scares some voters.


Take Gerald Allen, the Alabama state senator who was moved by the danger posed by sharia to sponsor a bill banning it — but who, when asked for a definition, could not say what sharia was. "I don't have my file in front of me," he told reporters. "I wish I could answer you better." In Tennessee, lawmakers sought to make following sharia a felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison — until they learned that their effort would essentially make it illegal to be Muslim in their state.


During last year's Senate race in Nevada, GOP candidate Sharon Angle blithely asserted that Dearborn, as well as a small town in Texas, currently operate under sharia law. And Minnesota congresswoman Michele Bachmann used the occasion of Osama bin Laden's death to tie the terrorist mastermind to the word: "It is my hope that this is the beginning of the end of Sharia-compliant terrorism."


The anti-communist Red Scare of the 1950s made broad use of guilt by innuendo and warnings about shadowy conspiracies. If GOP candidates insist they are not doing the same thing to ordinary Muslims, they can prove it by explaining what they believe sharia is and whether they're prepared to ban the consideration of all religious codes from civil arbitration. Anything less is simply fear mongering.

Amy Sullivan is a contributing writer at Time and author of The Party Faithful: How and Why Democrats Are Closing the God Gap.


Kansas governor signs measure blocking Islamic Law







Personally folks I would rather be informed instead of listening to the hate spewed crap that comes from these corrupt politicians we have holding office in our Country.

Some of the articles that I have read online and in doing some research tell me this is just a big "Boogy" man scare and people have used the words "Sharia Law" to scare the crap out of Americans who do not know what this means or how it is utilized in our courts if it is at all. Talk about religious intolerance and the good ole Christians at it again with their bigotry and hatred of others who are different. So much for the freedom of religion that the Catholic churches and the Republicans are fussing about eh?
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:16 PM   #2
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Serious question. Why are so many who seem to favor women's rights so tolerant of Islam and Sharia law? Islam and Sharia law are currently the most anti-women's rights systems being practiced anywhere on the planet. Want an abortion? You can't get one in a Muslim country. Hell, in many Muslim countries a woman can't even be out in public without a male relative with her, and she dare not show any skin other than her eyes and hands.

I don't get it. Muslims are not friendly to women's rights.
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:23 PM   #3
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All forms of prostitution are pretty much outlawed in most every muslim country as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_by_country
http://prostitution.procon.org/view....ourceID=000772
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy View Post
Serious question. Why are so many who seem to favor women's rights so tolerant of Islam and Sharia law? Islam and Sharia law are currently the most anti-women's rights systems being practiced anywhere on the planet. Want an abortion? You can't get one in a Muslim country. Hell, in many Muslim countries a woman can't even be out in public without a male relative with her, and she dare not show any skin other than her eyes and hands.

I don't get it. Muslims and Christians are not friendly to women's rights.
Corrected that for you..

Ok wait a minute.. I am not tolerant of anyone or any religion such as Christianity for example that try to take away women's rights to abortion, birth control, equal pay, etc. etc. Where the hell did you get that in the article I posted? Did you bother to read it Cog? What I posted is not about being tolerant of religions that impose their abusive ideology on women by oppressing them.. such as evangelical Christianity..eh hem..

You might want to re-read. Learn to read and comprehend. This is about Politicians carrying on about Sharia law and scaring people into thinking that the Muslims are going to change our system somehow or impose "fanaticism" concerning their religion. Not all Muslims are fanatics just like not all Christians are fanatics.
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:37 PM   #5
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Sheesh, I wasn't trying to start a fight. I really wanted to know. But anyway . . .

No, not all Muslims are fanatics, many come here because they want freedom for themselves and for their women. Those Muslims do not demand that Sharia be adopted in the US.

The post wasn't about Christians, but I agree that Christians are very intolerant as well, which isn't the point. Very few people, women especially, post about how we are too hard on Christians.

I think the recognition of Sharia in the US, unless it is duly voted on by a community or state, is only opening ourselves up to the extremist forms of Sharia. And I don't know why a woman would defend that. And only psychotic men would defend that.
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:12 AM   #6
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Cog,

It isn't about defending some fanatical Muslim who takes Sharia Law to extreme. There are so many Christians out there who cherry pick the bible and take what is said in it to extreme too, and that is why I am making the point. You see every corrupt politician is playing on the fears of those "so called" good christians as well as non christians that somehow parts of Sharia Law (the extreme parts like in our Christian bible) are going to be implemented in this country which is totally bogus. That would be like saying we would allow rape and murder to accomodate radical Muslims. We would no more do that then accomodate radical christians who bomb abortion clinics and think its ok to take away womens rights in the name of their religious law.

Again re-read this: How and when is it used in U.S. courts?

Sharia is sometimes consulted in civil cases with Muslim litigants who may request a Muslim arbitrator. These may involve issues of marriage contracts or commercial agreements, or probating an Islamic will. They are no different than the practice of judges allowing orthodox Jews to resolve some matters in Jewish courts, also known as beth din.



U.S. courts also regularly interpret foreign law in commercial disputes between two litigants from different countries, or custody agreements brokered in another country. In those cases, Islamic law is treated like any other foreign law or Catholic canon law.

They have been doing this for years and long before the whole 9/11 tragedy.

This is straight up bigotry and hatred of another culture or religion and is right up there with the anti-communist scare of the 1950's.

So now you have politicians trying to outlaw other peoples religious beliefs in this country and prevent them from doing what we have always done in this country with regard to letting the courts handle arbitration for such cases as listed above in that quote.

In the news article it says that these will be challenged and most likely shot down.

I mean the minute I hear someone say.. Oh noes we can't have Sharia Law in this country.. I want to shoot them because their ignorance is showing.
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:21 AM   #7
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Like I said, as long as Sharia is treated like a custom, and not as an alternative to American law, fine. If a Muslim arbitrator reaches a conclusion which does not conflict with any law in the jurisdiction, also fine. But if we want to substitute religious (any religion) law for duly enacted civil and criminal law, that is not fine.

It just seems that the greatest violence against women occurs in Muslim countries where Sharia is enforced. I don't know why women's rights activists in America don't protest more about the lack of human rights in those countries.

But I do agree with you, I don't want a Christian theocracy established here either. Jews and Christians have been just as violent and anti-woman as Muslims in their past. There are some Christians who want to return to that. No way. We need to oppose any attempt by any group to impose religious dogma of any nature on the population by force of law.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:05 PM   #8
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I'm pretty sure there are plenty of US women's activists who complain about women's treatment in some Muslim countries, plus many other non Muslim countries.

Is the greatest violence against women practised in Muslim countries? I would have to think about that. There has been quite a lot of violence against women in African wars, and the practice of Sati http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice) (throwing oneself on funeral pyre of husband) is Hindu, not Muslim.

But it is pointless getting into a 'which is worse?' discussion.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:00 PM   #9
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-new-face.html


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Old 05-27-2012, 08:36 PM   #10
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Hmmm, this happened AFTER we entered Afghanistan, but still has nothing to do with whether we are there or not.
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwarounder View Post
Hmmm, this happened AFTER we entered Afghanistan, but still has nothing to do with whether we are there or not.
Don't confuse the message. The pictures are for Sexyeccentric1 so she might view Sharia law in action; not to propagate the Times' OpEd.
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:11 PM   #12
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Anyone does this type of stuff to people......fuckem
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:17 PM   #13
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I am not a religionist, but the Christians are (currently) more benign that the Muslims. Not to say we don't have to keep the Christians from getting too much control, but the Muslim influence is becoming as least as disconcerting, if not more so.

The only laws that are truly legitimate are those which prevent a person's life, liberty or property from being taken by force or fraud. If those laws happen to coincide with religious doctrine, fine. But we don't need laws allowing any religious practice being forced on the population simply because it is a religious practice.

And I still don't know why some women's rights activists are so tolerant of Islam. That really confuses me.
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:35 PM   #14
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Please please please read the text about what sharia law means. Nobody denies the atrocities which are done under it's name, or some aspects of it (look up my link to Rowan Williams) but what we are talking about is use of certain customs when handling commercial negotiations etc.

If I do work in Saudi, then the Saudi contract will probably be written according to Sharia law. Get over it, and sign here.

You are doing exactly what this thread was about, reinforcing a myth.
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:47 PM   #15
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Fine, a Saudi contract will be interpreted under Sharia law. A US contract will be interpreted under US law. What myth am I perpetrating? When did the discussion of commercial transactions enter this thread? If this thread was ONLY about commercial transactions, ok. But it didn't start that way.
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