How much of an ass whopping should you take?

[GymRat]

First, let me preface my remarks by saying that I am going to play fast and loose with the facts of the Martin/Zimmerman case. As a matter of fact, I don’t want to argue the facts about the case at all, I want to discuss when in your opinion is it OK to use deadly force? Not when is it legal in your state to use deadly force, but if you were sitting on a jury, when would you consider it appropriate?
OK, here is the scenario. A nerd in your neighborhood takes it upon himself to be the neighborhood watch guy. He sees a young man walking through the neighborhood at 3 am. He decides to follow him and contact law enforcement. After calling law enforcement and alerting them to what he considers a suspicious individual, they tell him to back off and quit following the suspect. (Keep in mind, there is no law against following someone.) He follows law enforcements directions and quits following the suspect. The suspect then turns around and attacks the neighborhood watch nerd. The suspect quickly gets the upper hand during the struggle and starts pummeling the neighborhood watch nerd to the face with multiple punches and starts slamming his head on the concrete. The suspect breaks his nose, blackens his eyes and bloodies the back of his head. In your opinion, and if you were on the jury, does the neighborhood watch nerd have the right to use lethal force?
Again, let’s don’t argue the facts of the actual Martin/Zimmerman case. I have acknowledged that I played fast and loose with the facts. I am more concerned about when you think it is appropriate to use lethal force. I probably watch and listen to way too many news programs and talk radio. It seems like more and more of the talking heads are willing to now concede that it was Martin that was the aggressor, but they feel like Zimmerman used too much force. Too much force? I’m thinking maybe some of these talking heads probably didn’t grow up in the same neighborhood I did? I’m thinking, probably some of these talking heads haven’t been on either side of a good ass whooping?
Call me old school, but at some point, I would probably feel like after having my nose broken, my eyes blackened, and my head slammed a few times on the concrete, my life might well indeed be in danger.
How much of an ass whopping should you take before using lethal force?

[LovingKayla]

If I'm carrying jessy in my pants and I'm too big of a pussy to fight you off, I'll shoot you within 30 seconds. I'll make sure I have a few marks but Ive never pointed my gun at anything I didn't shoot.

If I'm with my child, I'll shoot you when I feel the least bit threatened. Of course living in the country on a ranch means I only get to shoot snakes and hogs. Hey af why don't you wonder on up here so I resight the P90.


I've got a bet on this thread (awesome thread) how much money will you monkeys make me this time. I'll have to read af's replys and a few others i usually just skim through but hey it's a good bet.

[Guest123018-4]

You never ever pull a gun unless you intend to kill.
You never kill unless you feel in fear of your lie.

If my head is being banged on the ground, I would be in fear for my life.

[nwarounder]

If you are wearing your pants hanging like a gangsta, wearing a hoodie, or any other resemblance of a thug and even thinking about engaging me, I'll shoot first, wipe my knife off, put it in your hand and claim you were running towards me screaming "I'm going to kill you". If you look like a decent individual, I'd hold off until you had the upper hand.

[JD Barleycorn]

When you have to pull your weapon it had better be because you have decided to use it and not for a show of force. When do you pull it? That depends on the individual. I can take a lot of punishment before I would fear for my life from someone's fists but if they pull a weapon then all bets are off.
Using your "hypothetical" above, your nerd is outmatched almost immediately and a reasonable person would probably feel fear for their life. Now if I were a hoodie wearing person who was just some innocent person out for a walk I would probably be glad that the nerd stopped following me. I wouldn't go back to heat things up. I certainly wouldn't attack anyone with my fists because they were suspicious of me.

[i'va biggen]

when you take a CCL class they will teach you never pull a gun unless you fear for your life,and you are responsible for each round you set loose .

[boardman]

Originally Posted by GymRat

First, let me preface my remarks by saying that I am going to play fast and loose with the facts of the Martin/Zimmerman case. As a matter of fact, I don’t want to argue the facts about the case at all, I want to discuss when in your opinion is it OK to use deadly force? Not when is it legal in your state to use deadly force, but if you were sitting on a jury, when would you consider it appropriate?

It depends on the law...If I'm a jurist I will be given a charge which will state the law. I must apply that law to the particular case and make my decision on the facts presented. I don't see how you can separate the two.

I also don't agree that you only draw your weapon if you intend on using it. A show of force may be enough to stop the aggressor and that should always be your intent. Never to shoot, not to kill but stop the aggressor. With that said, if you do pull your weapon you damned sure better be WILLING to use it.

[Laz]

As long as he was not the aggressor, I do not consider simply following someone for a little while aggressive, I would consider it a justified shooting. Any one who physically attacks another person should be aware that they might die.

[GymRat]

I was kind of curious how this thread would go. I’ll be honest, I’m 51 years old. I boxed as an amateur for four years and turned pro for two. I’m still very fit, and while I haven’t been in a street fight since my mid thirties, I think I can still handle myself OK. That being said, I don’t have an aggressive bone in my body unless you sincerely threaten me or my kids.
I just find it so fucking amusing that all the talking heads on TV say that Zimmerman used too much force. I know most of these people have lived a sheltered life, but is it too hard to imagine what it must be like to have the back of your head banged on concrete? You could literally be one or two blows away from permanent disability or death? If someone attacked me unprovoked, if I even thought I could possibly lose a tooth I would probably use lethal force. My stance may be a little extreme for some people, but if I didn’t provoke an assault, I’m not going to take much of an ass whupping!
One another note, my youngest kid went to Hawaii for a few months for a construction job. They were in a bar minding their own business when a native Hawaiian cold cocked one of my son’s coworkers. One punch blinded the kid. He also had to have reconstructive surgery on his skull and sinuses. I think too many of the talking heads have been watching way too many movie fight scenes. One fucking punch can change your life forever.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by GymRat

I was kind of curious how this thread would go. I’ll be honest, I’m 51 years old. I boxed as an amateur for four years and turned pro for two. I’m still very fit, and while I haven’t been in a street fight since my mid thirties, I think I can still handle myself OK. That being said, I don’t have an aggressive bone in my body unless you sincerely threaten me or my kids.
I just find it so fucking amusing that all the talking heads on TV say that Zimmerman used too much force. I know most of these people have lived a sheltered life, but is it too hard to imagine what it must be like to have the back of your head banged on concrete? You could literally be one or two blows away from permanent disability or death? If someone attacked me unprovoked, if I even thought I could possibly lose a tooth I would probably use lethal force. My stance may be a little extreme for some people, but if I didn’t provoke an assault, I’m not going to take much of an ass whupping!
One another note, my youngest kid went to Hawaii for a few months for a construction job. They were in a bar minding their own business when a native Hawaiian cold cocked one of my son’s coworkers. One punch blinded the kid. He also had to have reconstructive surgery on his skull and sinuses. I think too many of the talking heads have been watching way too many movie fight scenes. One fucking punch can change your life forever.

Those MSM Talking Heads don't live sheltered lives, they live life wearing self-imposed blinders.

[trynagetlaid]

Originally Posted by The2Dogs

If my head is being banged on the ground, I would be in fear for my life.

The head is very vulnerable. My teenage son was at a party where one guy hit another guy and he fell and hit his head on a curb. Died instantly.

Martin was on top of Zimmerman bashing his head on the ground, Zimmerman was able to get to his gun and get a shot off.

It was self defense.

[GymRat]

I thought about this just a couple of minutes after my last post. I heard a story on the radio about a man being prosecuted in some state (can’t remember which one) about using excessive force after he was assaulted? He was attacked by a man and he responded with two punches. The second punch knocked out his opponent and when he stuck his head on the floor when going down it put him into a coma and he is currently in a nursing home. Excessive force, are you fucking kidding me? Are we supposed to measure punches (I don’t even know if I can) before we throw them?
I guess I am an old school kind of guy. Just like my Dad, I taught my two boys everything I knew about fighting. Everything from kicking in the nuts to sleeper holds. I also told them that in most cases it is probably better to walk away from a fight than to have to put a partial denture into a cup of Polident on your nightstand every night over some petty bullshit. On the other hand, I also told them if you do decide to fight, you do everything in your power to incapacitate your opponent as quickly as possible. Maybe I should have taught them the measured response method? What bullshit!

[Randy4Candy]

Well, one might want to have enough sense and skillz to have more game than just whipping out a lethal weapon - especially if you are going to be the one who creates the situation. Limits your options. Zimmermann is at the very least guilty of being an idiot who thought comic books, movies and reality TV are real life. Now, there's some real cognitive dissonance for you. Of course, he's alive and some black kid is dead, so it's all good.

[Laz]

The premise of this discussion is that Treyvon instigated the violence. It was acknowledged up front that we do not know that as a fact. The question then becomes did George have the right to shoot or did he have to sit there and endure the beating. Speaking as someone who is out of shape with no fighting skills I would use whatever means available to me to stop the beating as quickly as possible. If that means the guy that started the violence dies then to bad.

[Randy4Candy]

Laz, let someone follow you around in a car and then on foot. At night and during a rain. I'll check back with you then for an update on the status of your outlook. Those are undisputed facts and what caused the situation to escalate. All lil' georgie had to do was follow the advice of the 911 operator. It's one thing to defend yourself and someting completely different to back someone into a corner under the misguided notion of prevention when you are armed. It doesn't seem that the dead black kid perpetrated any crime prior to being killed. If he did, we'd all like to know what it was. Does wonders for the freedom loving "innocent until proven guilty" crowd, eh?

This boils down to who created the situation. Was it the guy who was walking back to where he was living at the time or the guy being "proactive" in the name of what we could laughingly refer to as safety.