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Old 02-22-2012, 11:41 AM   #1
Whirlaway
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Default OBAMA TO IMPOSE MORE TAXES ON THE MIDDLE CLASS..

In his continued war against working middle class Americans (we all know Obama loves the mega wealthy and the indigent but doesn't give a hoot about the middle class), Obama plans to increase taxes on the middle class....from Bloomberg.com

President Obama's 2013 budget is the gift that keeps on giving—to government. One buried surprise is his proposal to triple the tax rate on corporate dividends, which believe it or not is higher than in his previous budgets.

Mr. Obama is proposing to raise the dividend tax rate to the higher personal income tax rate of 39.6% that will kick in next year. Add in the planned phase-out of deductions and exemptions, and the rate hits 41%. Then add the 3.8% investment tax surcharge in ObamaCare, and the new dividend tax rate in 2013 would be 44.8%—nearly three times today's 15% rate.

Keep in mind that dividends are paid to shareholders only after the corporation pays taxes on its profits. So assuming a maximum 35% corporate tax rate and a 44.8% dividend tax, the total tax on corporate earnings passed through as dividends would be 64.1%.






In previous budgets, Mr. Obama proposed an increase to 23.8% on both dividends and capital gains. That's roughly a 60% increase in the tax on investments, but at least it would maintain parity between taxes on capital gains and dividends, a principle established as part of George W. Bush's 2003 tax cut.

With the same rate on both forms of income, the tax code doesn't bias corporate decisions on whether to retain and reinvest profits (and allow the earnings to be capitalized into the stock price), or distribute the money as dividends at the time they are earned.

Of course, the White House wants everyone to know that this new rate would apply only to those filthy rich individuals who make $200,000 a year, or $250,000 if you're a greedy couple. We're all supposed to believe that no one would be hurt other than rich folks who can afford it.

The truth is that the plan gives new meaning to the term collateral damage, because shareholders of all incomes will share the pain. Here's why. Historical experience indicates that corporate dividend payouts are highly sensitive to the dividend tax. Dividends fell out of favor in the 1990s when the dividend tax rate was roughly twice the rate of capital gains.

When the rate fell to 15% on January 1, 2003, dividends reported on tax returns nearly doubled to $196 billion from $103 billion the year before the tax cut. By 2006 dividend income had grown to nearly $337 billion, more than three times the pre-tax cut level. The nearby chart shows the trend.

Shortly after the rate cut, Microsoft, which had never paid a dividend, distributed $32 billion of its retained earnings in a special dividend of $3 per share. According to a Cato Institute study, 22 S&P 500 companies that didn't pay dividends before the tax cut began paying them in 2003 and 2004.

As former Citigroup CEO Sandy Weill explained at the time: "The recent change in the tax law levels the playing field between dividends and share repurchases as a means to return capital to shareholders. This substantial increase in our dividend will be part of our effort to reallocate capital to dividends and reduce share repurchases."

And that's what happened. An American Economic Association study by University of California at Berkeley economists Raj Chetty and Emmanuel Saez examined dividend payouts by firms and concluded that "the tax reform played a significant role in the [2003 and 2004] increase in dividend payouts." They also found that the incentive for firms to pay dividends rather than sit on cash helped "reshuffle" capital from lower growth firms to "ventures with greater expected value," thus increasing capital-market efficiency.

If you reverse the policy, you reverse the incentives. The tripling of the dividend tax will have a dampening effect on these payments.
Who would get hurt? IRS data show that retirees and near-retirees who depend on dividend income would be hit especially hard. Almost three of four dividend payments go to those over the age of 55, and more than half go to those older than 65, according to IRS data.

But all American shareholders would lose. Higher dividend and capital gains taxes make stocks less valuable. A share of stock is worth the discounted present value of the future earnings stream after taxes. Stock prices would fall over time to adjust to the new after-tax rate of return. And if investors become convinced later this year that dividend and capital gains taxes are going way up on January 1, some investors are likely to sell shares ahead of paying these higher rates.

The question is how this helps anyone. According to the Investment Company Institute, about 51% of adults own stock directly or through mutual funds, which is more than 100 million shareholders. Tens of millions more own stocks through pension funds. Why would the White House endorse a policy that will make these households poorer?

Seldom has there been a clearer example of a policy that is supposed to soak the rich but will drench almost all American families.
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:30 PM   #2
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-middle-class/
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:18 PM   #3
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CJ. you have to learn to read. You are looking at past taxes, while the article addresses future taxes. Even Jimmy Carter wanted to eliminate the tax on corporate dividends, since they were already taxed. You keep trying to dodge issues, and then think you're smart. It's not working.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:30 PM   #4
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You are looking at past taxes, while the article addresses future taxes.

exactly ... asking you and whirl, it would seem the aforementioned future taxes have already been put in place ... least we forget what has been is fact and what could be may never be.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:37 PM   #5
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Would you learn how to quote?! I don't want anyone to think something I said was actually said by you. I have a reputation to uphold.

No one said the taxes were already in place. I have three words for you - Hooked on Phonics - try it, it will help.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy View Post
Would you learn how to quote?! I don't want anyone to think something I said was actually said by you. I have a reputation to uphold.


dont worry COG nobody will ever think something you say, I said. Your inane partisan reputation is intact.


No one said the taxes were already in place. I have three words for you - Hooked on Phonics - try it, it will help.

and I said exactly.

no wonder you choose not to go back to the courtroom.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:35 PM   #7
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LOL! Can't take it, can you?
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7 View Post
and I said exactly.

no wonder you choose not to go back to the courtroom.
I think he was probably a clerk. Imagine that moron defending you? He hasn't been able to prove a single thing he's posted. Ha ha.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:38 PM   #9
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I think he was probably a clerk. Imagine that moron defending you? He hasn't been able to prove a single thing he's posted. Ha ha.
My guess is cutiepis talked the other side silly until they just couldn't take it anymore and run up the white flag!

He might not know wtf he is talking about but that hasn't never stopped him from debating. Good Lord, could you just think of a week in court listening to his ass>?
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:07 PM   #10
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LOL! I won in court. Never lost a civil case except when my client lied to me. I never lost a criminal case where I recommended we go to trial, in fact I won several that I didn't think we could win.

And sure, I've never won an argument here, because no one has ever won one. No one, except me, has ever admitted he was wrong.

You guys think you're cute. I think you're funny. You are buying the Government Military Industrial Media complex lies, as do most people. Enjoy feeling superior, I'll enjoy being right.
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:16 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy View Post
You are buying the Government Military Industrial Media complex lies, as do most people..
So we should believe your lies instead?
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:57 AM   #12
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If I am lying, which I am not, then of course, do not believe me.
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