Another question wrt Ukraine - Russia

[Don Stephens]

Another question I am struggling with concerning the Russia-Ukraine Peace proposals:


In all the commentary about Trump's proposed peace plan, I have not heard any discussion of what will become of the portion of Ukraine that Russia is now illegally occupying with its military forces

In 1938, Chamberlain ceded the Sudetenland to Hitler in order to, in Chamberlain's words "maintain peace in our time". We know how that decision turned out.

How would allowing Russia to keep the portion of Ukraine that it illegally seized by force be any different?

[HDGristle]

I'm anxious to see some of these answers as well

[onawbtngr546]

There being no guarantees that russia wouldn't invade later, in addition to Ukraine ceding territory illegally occupied by the invaders is part of why the mineral deal wasn't signed.


Imagine you're the teacher. You see a bully punching a nerd and taking their lunch money. You tell the nerd that you'll tell the bully to stop if you give the bully the rest of their lunch money, then you're praise the bully.
Why would the nerd chose to not ask you for help?

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Don Stephens

Another question I am struggling with concerning the Russia-Ukraine Peace proposals:


In all the commentary about Trump's proposed peace plan, I have not heard any discussion of what will become of the portion of Ukraine that Russia is now illegally occupying with its military forces

In 1938, Chamberlain ceded the Sudetenland to Hitler in order to, in Chamberlain's words "maintain peace in our time". We know how that decision turned out.

How would allowing Russia to keep the portion of Ukraine that it illegally seized by force be any different?

Ukraine has always had different countries involved. Read the history. Russia has controlled parts of the land since the 1600’s. Ukraine became whole in 1990 when the Soviet Union collapsed. Eastern Ukraine is populated with Russians. That’s what Russia occupies now.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine

This is an interesting read. Who’s to blame?

https://www.thenation.com/article/wo...lion-neo-nazi/


But to your question, I believe Russia keeps Crimea and parts of Eastern Ukraine. Just my opinion

[HDGristle]

Ah, so Ukraine became whole. So now that Russis carved off a piece, to Don's question, what's the plan?

Should it be made whole again? If not, and Russia keeps what it illegally annexed, then how is it not a reward for violating its sovereignty (that Vlad doesn't believe it has)

And what would be in place for it to refrain from taking the rest en route to Transnitria and Moldova?

The $300+ billion in frozen Russian assets, plus interest? Is that a fair trade?

[bambino]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

Ah, so Ukraine became whole. So now that Russis carved off a piece, to Don's question, what's the plan?

Should it be made whole again? If not, and Russia keeps what it illegally annexed, then how is it not a reward for violating its sovereignty (that Vlad doesn't believe it has)

And what would be in place for it to refrain from taking the rest en route to Transnitria and Moldova?

The $300+ billion in frozen Russian assets, plus interest? Is that a fair trade?

You can research different maps of Ukraine going back 100s of years. Pick one that suits you.

[Jacuzzme]

Germany never took the Sudetenland, for starters.

[HDGristle]

Originally Posted by bambino

You can research different maps of Ukraine going back 100s of years. Pick one that suits you.

That's a dodge. 2014, before the illegal annexation of Crimea

[bambino]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

That's a dodge. 2014, before the illegal annexation of Crimea

I don’t care what happens to Ukraine. It’s corrupt to the core. Draw your own map Mr Gristle. Let’s see it.

[Don Stephens]

Jacuzzme:
Munich Agreement, Sept 30, 1938

[HDGristle]

Originally Posted by Don Stephens

Jacuzzme:
Munich Agreement, Sept 30, 1938

He's making the point that it was given rather than conquered spoils

[onawbtngr546]

Originally Posted by bambino

Eastern Ukraine is populated with Russians. That’s what Russia occupies now.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine

This is an interesting read. Who’s to blame?

https://www.thenation.com/article/wo...lion-neo-nazi/


But to your question, I believe Russia keeps Crimea and parts of Eastern Ukraine. Just my opinion

Congrats. You've fallen for propaganda. You're so fucking wrong it's funny lol

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by Don Stephens

Jacuzzme:
Munich Agreement, Sept 30, 1938

Took, meaning by force.

[bigguyt]

Russia keeps it up to the point where the rare minerals start. Not that hard. Next question.

[Don Stephens]

Interesting differentiation Jacuzzme. Hitler essentially blackmailed Britain, France, Germany and Italy into giving it up because he made them understand that he would take it if not given - as he subsequently demonstrated by taking the rest of Czechoslovakia soon thereafter
Worth noting - Czechoslovakia was not included in the discussions producing the Munich Agreement - sound familiar?