What was the purpose of Obamacare?

[Marshall]

If one of the purposes of Obamacare was to insure the 30 million uninsured Americans, why create this obamination?

30% of those uninsured are young people who can afford health insurance but choose to spend the money on beer and other things instead.....

couldn't we just have expanded Medicaid eligibility instead? [not that Medicaid is Constitutional].....why fuc up the whole system?

[Whirlaway]

Because Obamacare is the first step in the wet dreams of Obama and like minded socialists - Nationalized Medicine. Without Obamacare they can't get there. Here's Obama saying so in his own words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

[Guest050715-1]

Obamacare is a manifestation of Obama’s inflated, elitist ego. Trust me. I know what’s best for you. There is no way it will stand on it’s own two legs because it is so compromised, and a whole new agency will have to be established to regulate it. I wish Congress would realize that without funding a new agency, the grand social experiment won’t ever get wings and fly.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Obamacare is a manifestation of Obama’s inflated, elitist ego.

What part of his moving towards the center from his campaign rhetoric is the manifestation of his inflated, elitist ego?

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by Doove

What part of his moving towards the center from his campaign rhetoric is the manifestation of his inflated, elitist ego?

Obamacare isn't center of anything. It is a socialist, cradle-to-grave program just as he is a do as I say, I know what's best elitist. It was passed in the first months of his presidency before he had to start is re-election campaign.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

a whole new agency will have to be established to regulate it.

I suppose you were against the establishment of the Department of Homeland Security. Talk about top-heavy bureaucracies. It is the 3rd largest US Gov Dept, and has 7 component agencies that used to be on their own.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I suppose you were against the establishment of the Department of Homeland Security. Talk about top-heavy bureaucracies. It is the 3rd largest US Gov Dept, and has 7 component agencies that used to be on their own.

Darlin', darlin', darlin' you should know I hated George II. His administration was a joke. His response to 9/11 was criminal. Of course I was against the let's grab this outta my ass creation of Homeland Security. Couldn't the DOJ or the Defense Department handled that. Here's a better idea, maybe he should have handed the FBI and the CIA directors their heads for not cooperating and foiling the worst attack on American soil in the first place

If you think Homeland Security is a multi-headed monster, just wait until you start getting vicious little bureaucrats, worthless career-politicians, accountants, megalomaniac doctors, wannabe nurses, pundants like that ridiculous Sarah Palin and God knows who else involved in YOUR medical care. It will be a nightmare agency that unfortunately will make life and death decisions about how you and your loved ones live and die. Good luck with that. I'm hoping it dies on the vine like all of Obama's other non-decisions. I can't believe it, the one decision he actually makes is just so horrible and has so many terrible ramifications.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

If you think Homeland Security is a multi-headed monster, just wait until you start getting vicious little bureaucrats, worthless career-politicians, accountants, megalomaniac doctors, wannabe nurses, pundants like that ridiculous Sarah Palin and God knows who else involved in YOUR medical care. It will be a nightmare agency that unfortunately will make life and death decisions about how you and your loved ones live and die. Good luck with that. I'm hoping it dies on the vine like all of Obama's other non-decisions. I can't believe it, the one decision he actually makes is just so horrible and has so many terrible ramifications.

On this we disagree. But I am willing to concede that I might be wrong. Only time will tell. But I would rather gamble on better health care for 30 million and be wrong than to stick with the terrible system we now have. IOW, I'd rather try it and be wrong than not try it out of pure fear.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Obamacare isn't center of anything. It is a socialist, cradle-to-grave program just as he is a do as I say, I know what's best elitist.

So much for the whole "For someone to be rich, someone has to be poor and the bell curve in the middle. That’s just the way it is. The question is not is being poor good or bad, but rather the question is how does one treat those in poverty. Do you treat them with dignity and as a fellow human being? Or do you look down on them? Do you condemn them for their lot in life? Poverty is something that one is born into not something that one achieves generally" thing.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

On this we disagree. But I am willing to concede that I might be wrong. Only time will tell. But I would rather gamble on better health care for 30 million and be wrong than to stick with the terrible system we now have. IOW, I'd rather try it and be wrong than not try it out of pure fear.

Who the hell do you think fucked up the current system? I'll give you a clue -- it rhymes with beds.

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by Doove

What part of his moving towards the center from his campaign rhetoric is the manifestation of his inflated, elitist ego?

It isn't his "moving toward the center", it's his obsession with cramming this lemon through -- no matter how much congress fucked it up, no matter how expensive it is, and no matter how many mandates it places on businesses of all sizes. Why do you think so many entities sought waivers from this disaster?

He demonstrated the same impatience here as he did with that other gargantuan lemon of 2009, the mostly squandered and ineffective $860 billion "stimulus" package.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by Doove

So much for the whole "For someone to be rich, someone has to be poor and the bell curve in the middle. That’s just the way it is. The question is not is being poor good or bad, but rather the question is how does one treat those in poverty. Do you treat them with dignity and as a fellow human being? Or do you look down on them? Do you condemn them for their lot in life? Poverty is something that one is born into not something that one achieves generally" thing.

Doovie, where did I say once that being poor should kill you? In fact, I have said quite the opposite all my life. Just because I don’t agree with Obamacare doesn’t mean I don’t believe in public medicine. I believe all people – including illegal immigrants as they are people too no matter what some think – should have access to health care. I just don’t believe it should be a cobbled together system that is at the other end of the long arm of the law. Fining people because they chose rent over State mandated health insurance is criminal.



I personally want the health care system I currently have in place. I pay $375 per quarter for unlimited access to my primary care doc and around $300 - $350 for catastrophic health insurance: a $5,000 deductible, max out of pocked $7,500 and coverage up to $2mn. But believe it or not, Obamacare doesn’t seem to think that my catastrophic coverage is enough. Under Obamacare, I will have to pay more to get a health insurance that a bureaucrat [Obama] has in their infinite wisdom decreed that I must pay for.

If the government could come up with an unencumbered system that would meet my financial needs, not tax the poor for not being able to afford insurance, engage in preventative medicine and stay out of my personal medical / financial decisions, then I’m all for it. Obamacare doesn’t meet any of these needs.


Charles, and Doovie, regarding your comments, I think health care should incorporate the following and eliminate the selfish needs of multi-interest / conflict of interest parties such as insurance companies, elitists, doctors, etc.


1. State required and dispensed vaccinations and check ups.
2. Doc-in-the-Boxes liberally disbursed through out the country and staffed medical care experts by state required pro-bono work to maintain a license to be a doctor, nurse, X-Ray tech, blood drawer (I can’t think of the word.), etc.
3. Blood tests to determine of one consumes tobacco and a tax to go along with it.
4. Preventative healthcare – Liberal, not the current BMI anorexic, body indexes need to be maintained or you pay extra. Obesity is now the number one cause of preventable death in the US.
5. Nutritional classes for anyone who wants them, on public assistance or anyone over weight.
6. Fines for using the emergency room as a primary care facility. People wouldn’t need that if there were accessible clinics available for little or no fee.
7. Sliding scale assistance for those that can’t afford healthcare. If you make X you are 100% subsidized, if you make X + 10% you are 90% subsidized or some such scale.
8. An agency that manages the above programs WITHOUT MAKING ANY MEDICAL DECISIONS OR AN UPWARDLY SPIRALING BUDGET OR DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Who the hell do you think fucked up the current system? I'll give you a clue -- it rhymes with beds.

the current system was destined for failure! To asnwer the op question ..... obamacare was created to give pj something to bitch about on eccie to counter my bitching about defense department waste!

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Who the hell do you think fucked up the current system? I'll give you a clue -- it rhymes with beds.

I think it was largely the insurance companies and an ungodly high profit motive. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against making a living wage, or even a healthy living wage for a doc, but don't be greedy.

Hospitals should all be non-profit, but substantially financed.

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Charles, and Doovie, regarding your comments, I think health care should incorporate the following and eliminate the selfish needs of multi-interest / conflict of interest parties such as insurance companies, elitists, doctors, etc.


1. State required and dispensed vaccinations and check ups.
2. Doc-in-the-Boxes liberally disbursed through out the country and staffed medical care experts by state required pro-bono work to maintain a license to be a doctor, nurse, X-Ray tech, blood drawer (I can’t think of the word.), etc.
3. Blood tests to determine of one consumes tobacco and a tax to go along with it.
4. Preventative healthcare – Liberal, not the current BMI anorexic, body indexes need to be maintained or you pay extra. Obesity is now the number one cause of preventable death in the US.
5. Nutritional classes for anyone who wants them, on public assistance or anyone over weight.
6. Fines for using the emergency room as a primary care facility. People wouldn’t need that if there were accessible clinics available for little or no fee.
7. Sliding scale assistance for those that can’t afford healthcare. If you make X you are 100% subsidized, if you make X + 10% you are 90% subsidized or some such scale.
8. An agency that manages the above programs WITHOUT MAKING ANY MEDICAL DECISIONS OR AN UPWARDLY SPIRALING BUDGET OR DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR.

Olivia, we agree on the goals. We just need to agree on the method to get there.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I think it was largely the insurance companies and an ungodly high profit motive. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against making a living wage, or even a healthy living wage for a doc, but don't be greedy.

Hospitals should all be non-profit, but substantially financed.



Olivia, we agree on the goals. We just need to agree on the method to get there.

It ain't Obamacare. It could start with the school nurse inoculating children and a traveling doctor giving checkups and seeing sick children. Hospitals or clinics slated for sale by mega-healthcare companies could be donated - and a tax break given - to the State run Doc-in-the-box Program. We could pass a law at the next legislature to require medical care professionals to staff them to maintain their licenses. The pre-existing condition clause could be eliminated with the stroke of a pen. Give children nutritional meals in school and remove junk food and vending machines. God! Anything to get started caring for the poor and the sick. It doesn't have to be a new agency with a new budget and a new agenda to get started.