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Old 06-06-2011, 07:58 PM   #1
Marshall
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Default Has equality destroyed your sex life?

Has equality destroyed your sex life?


By Linda Kelsey

Last updated at 2:42 AM on 6th June 2011



A controversial book claims feminism and the rise of ‘new men’ have killed off women's libidos...


Corporate lawyer Amy, 38, goes to work in killer heels and a pencil skirt, commands a mega-salary and has a team of assistants at her beck and call.

‘At work, I’m always the one in control and I admit that I like it that way. It’s exciting and it’s sexy being an Alpha woman,’ she says.

But when it comes to her partner Max, who is also a lawyer, albeit with a less high-profile job, she often finds herself feeling confused about who calls the shots — especially when it comes to sex.


Bad romance: Equality has left many women turned off by men who expect them to be dominant in the bedroom

‘When I get home, I no longer want to be the power broker, the one who’s always in charge and in control. I need to be wooed and seduced, and to feel that Max has power over me,’ she says.

‘Sometimes he fulfils the role, but sometimes he doesn’t and I feel disappointed. It does make me wonder why I’m reluctant to take the initiative in bed when I’m confident and in charge at work.’

Amy’s desire to be dominated in the bedroom certainly appears to be at odds with her behaviour at work, but does it follow that if you’re adept at giving orders in the office, you’ll want to bark orders between the sheets as well?

According to the authors of an explosive new book, A Billion Wicked Thoughts: What The World’s Largest Experiment Reveals About Human Desire, the answer is a resounding ‘No’.




Using the internet, neuroscientists Ogi Ogas and Sai Gaddam analysed half a billion sexual fantasies, preferences and practices, then correlated their findings with animal behaviour studies and the latest findings in neuroscience, to come to the very non-PC conclusion that when it comes to sex, women are wired to find sexual submission arousing.

And that gender equality, far from liberating women sexually, actually inhibits desire.

‘If you feel compelled to approach sex with the same gender attitudes as the working world, it’s going to be difficult to be aroused,’ says Ogas.

Feminism, to put it as bluntly as these two do, is bad for sex, and is the prime reason why increasing numbers of women are seeking help for problems associated with low libido.

Nearly half a century on from the start of the Swinging Sixties and the birth of modern feminism, these pronouncements come close to heresy. But do these well-qualified scientists have a point worth paying attention to?


Girl power: But feminism is bad for sex according to researchers

According to Ogas and Gaddam, we can learn some important lessons about female sexual behaviour from observing rats in the laboratory.

They insist that if you put a male and female rat in close proximity to one another, the female will start to come on to the male, performing actions associated with sexual interest — running and then stopping to encourage the male to chase her.

But after a bit of kiss-chase, the female rat stands still, adopting a submissive stance until the male takes action. They also claim that almost every quality of dominant males — from the way they smell to the way they walk and their deep voice — triggers arousal in the female brain, while ‘weaker’ men, who are not taller, have higher voices or lower incomes, excite us less.

What they seem to be suggesting is that the cavemen were right all along and that what women really want is to be dragged by the hair, all the while feigning reluctance, by macho men waving clubs.

When I put this proposition to my friend Katie, 42, who runs a successful event planning business and is married to Geoff (who gave up a job with the police force that he hated and is doing a stint as house-husband, looking after their sons, aged three and six), she blushed with embarrassment.

Taking the lead: But many women would prefer men to make the first move (posed by models)

‘It seems so disloyal to admit this because Geoff is so lovely in every way. He’s brilliant with the children, he does all the shopping and cooking, but the truth is I’m just not turned on any more,’ she says.

‘He knows how tired I am at the end of the day, and though he’s just being considerate, instead of asking me if I’m in the mood for sex, I long for him to be a bit masterful and say: “I want you. And I want you now.”

‘On the few occasions when we do make love, the only way I can get excited is by having a lurid fantasy about being taken by force by a man in uniform.’

Psychotherapist and author Phillip Hodson thinks Katie’s response is not as strange as it appears.

‘In her rational, conscious mind, a woman might tell herself she has worked hard and fought for independence, and no man is going to tell her what to do in or out of bed,’ he says.

‘But she may have been raised with different expectations of the male role, and find it difficult to express herself sexually and emotionally with a man who earns far less than her or who is sexually less confident.’

As further evidence for their theory, Ogas and Gaddam cite the continuing popularity of erotic fiction. Certainly, if you were to judge by the still booming sales of Mills & Boon novels you would find it difficult to disagree.

Three million books a year are sold in Britain alone by these purveyors of not-too-naughty erotica. For best-selling novelist Jilly Cooper, this is no surprise.

‘Men are so beaten into submission these days. They’re so weak and worried and confused that one simply has to reach into romance novels to find a proper hero,’ she says.

Ogas and Gaddam’s findings have hit a nerve, but they don’t take account of all the reasons a woman might suffer loss of libido — from tiredness to financial worries or constant rows.

As for female sexual fantasies, the counsellor and psychologist Linda Young offers a word of caution.

‘The kind of guy that stars in a woman’s sexual fantasy is not necessarily the same one who shares her values or shares parenting,’ she says.


NOT IN THE MOOD
More than a quarter of women over 35 never have sex, according to research

‘And, yes, women — including feminists — are often aroused by “bad boys”. But to say feminism is causing loss of desire is misleading.

'Feminism is about social, economic and political equity, and is independent of what turns someone on in a bedroom or a fantasy.’

There is plenty of evidence to counter the claims made by Ogas and Gaddam. One major study, involving 27,500 people conducted in 29 countries by the University of Chicago, showed that men and women aged 40-plus reported less satisfaction with the quality of their sex lives in countries where men have a dominant status over women, such as the Middle East.

In relationships based on equality, couples reported sexual lives more in keeping with both partners’ wishes.

This certainly holds true for Bill and Dana, in their 50s and married for the second time. ‘In my first marriage I was the little wife, bringing up the children, doing the housework and looking after my husband’s every need,’ says Dana.

‘He expected sex on demand, but took no interest in pleasing me.

‘When I went back to college as a mature student, I met Bill. We shared interests and eventually began an affair. For the first time I felt free to express myself sexually. Sometimes he’s in charge; sometimes I am. Sometimes it’s wild, sometimes it’s gentle. But always there’s a sense of mutuality. ’

This is a view echoed by Phillip Hodson: ‘There is no reason why each of you can’t be sometimes dominant, sometimes neutral, sometimes submissive. What makes for successful long-term sexual relationships is that you can surprise and delight one another.’

Women are still coming to terms with the incredible pace of change in their lives over the past half-century. To admit to sometimes having fantasies of submission is nothing to be ashamed of.

Even if you’re a feminist. It’s all part of desire’s rich tapestry. And there’s nothing remotely wicked about that.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...#ixzz1OXzxMJYz
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:42 AM   #2
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Interesting read. Thanks for posting it. Proves that we should not go against our human nature and expect good things from it. Millions of years of evolution made us the way we are. New social ideas are not going to change that in 50 years.

Skip this part if you want. It's just a persoonal annecdote.
Twenty five years ago my wife and I plus our two children attended marriage counseling. Wife was recovering from major depression and it affected our entire family. So we all show up to this counselors office. Big old hippie lady. We all talked for a while and then she started with a list of questions for everybody.

One question was WHO IS THE BOSS IN THIS FAMILY?. Both kids pointed to me. My wife answered without even thinking about it JOHN IS THE BOSS BUT WE ALWAYS DISCUSS THINGS WHEN MAKING A DECISION AND AFTER CONSIDERING WHAT WE THINK HE MAKES THE FINAL DECISION.

Hippie lady's face turned to stone. She said WELL THAT'S ALL GOING TO CHANGE. I replied that, infact, no it's not. There can be only one boss. Every group needs a strong leader. There can't be two bosses. That never works. I am the leader of our little group.

I then asked some personal questions of her trying to draw out her personal liberal feminist beliefs. She would not answer. The wife and kids then asked her why she would not answer my questions since at the beginning of the session we all agreed to be honest with each other. I had her there. LOL. Finally she stated the standard feminist party line. The wife and kids started laughing. We left.

Her replacement was a traditional male counselor who helped us through that tough time and a few years later helped us through another tight spot when our son was having some problems.
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:05 PM   #3
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Wow. This is news. Not.

Didn't read all your post, but am constntly teaching American women how to act like women (receptive - and the guy pays), and mopping up the tears of guys who work hard all day and return home to women who really don't care or respond. Thus divorce.


Just saying...
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:22 PM   #4
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Nothing a good fisting dlido cannot fix.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:07 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by pyramider View Post
Nothing a good fisting dlido cannot fix.
Men frequently tell me THEY are emotionally exhausted from having to be in charge, and making things happen at work. They just want a woman who can take over and make sex happen for them, so they can relax and enjoy themselves effortlessly. Sometimes I wonder if there is a confidence issue contributing to this desire. Human beings are never taught how to have sex. They are told NOT to have sex. People have to discover how to do it, and make it feel good, on their own. And most aren't equipped to do it like the porn stars, so watching pornography leaves them feeling hopeless and inadequate, subconsciously, even though it turns them on. When I watch porn I feel annoyed, because it sounds to me like the women are in pain. It is frightening to think guys are associating those kinds of sounds with pleasure. I have a video of me having sex with a man, and we were both really into it. But it is nothing like pornography. When I show it to people, they either become fixated on it, and thank me and say it was the most amazing thing they ever watched, and they would definitely pay to see it, or they can't watch it, and tell me it's boring. When that happens, I wonder if they are feeling embarrassed, because it is very intimate. Oooops, I didn't mean to hijack this thread. My point is that people don't really know how to have good sex. They know what feels good when they masturbate. They know what makes porn stars scream and they can't do it. But they don't know how to make sex feel really really good, the way deep down in their hearts everyone knows is possible. So everybody is hoping to find a lover who knows how make it happen for them...
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMacnab View Post
Interesting read. Thanks for posting it. Proves that we should not go against our human nature and expect good things from it. Millions of years of evolution made us the way we are. New social ideas are not going to change that in 50 years.

Skip this part if you want. It's just a persoonal annecdote.
Twenty five years ago my wife and I plus our two children attended marriage counseling. Wife was recovering from major depression and it affected our entire family. So we all show up to this counselors office. Big old hippie lady. We all talked for a while and then she started with a list of questions for everybody.

One question was WHO IS THE BOSS IN THIS FAMILY?. Both kids pointed to me. My wife answered without even thinking about it JOHN IS THE BOSS BUT WE ALWAYS DISCUSS THINGS WHEN MAKING A DECISION AND AFTER CONSIDERING WHAT WE THINK HE MAKES THE FINAL DECISION.

Hippie lady's face turned to stone. She said WELL THAT'S ALL GOING TO CHANGE. I replied that, infact, no it's not. There can be only one boss. Every group needs a strong leader. There can't be two bosses. That never works. I am the leader of our little group.

I then asked some personal questions of her trying to draw out her personal liberal feminist beliefs. She would not answer. The wife and kids then asked her why she would not answer my questions since at the beginning of the session we all agreed to be honest with each other. I had her there. LOL. Finally she stated the standard feminist party line. The wife and kids started laughing. We left.

Her replacement was a traditional male counselor who helped us through that tough time and a few years later helped us through another tight spot when our son was having some problems.
This is why life requires balance. This thought that there can only be one boss is ridiculous. I was looking for your follow-up comment about the good old days when women didn't speak their mind and stayed in the kitchen. These are definitely new times, Mr. Macnab. The new thinking is more along the lines of real equality, not the feminist thought process that you spoke of 25 years ago. The reasons why people aren't happy in relationships is because you've got someone trying to be the BOSS. Whether that's the man or the woman. Your wife already has a dad. You don't need another mom. A successful relationship is when two people who have different strengths balance each other, or maybe they have the same strengths, and they agree on a compromising position on how decisions are made. There is no one higher than the other, and both partners are equally considered.

I do agree with you to a certain degree (and I know the subject of the male role with the independent woman has been debated so I won't digress.) when you say certain things are just hardwired into us by nature. I do believe that the man's traditional role of 'bacon-bringer' is innate, and the woman bringing home the bacon would throw his ego for a loop. And this may just feel like more feminist BS to you, but the problem with relationships in a traditional sense is TRUST. When you marry someone, you trust that the person you marry has your best interest at heart, and you can blindly follow where they lead. She doesn't look at the finances because she trusts that there is enough money for her to take care of the family. But some men view marriage as a way to just control a situation. Some men have absolutely no interest in a woman, what she thinks about, what makes her happy, or anything else until he wants to get laid. Being emotional creatures, we REALLY don't sign up for that. So we have grown to distrust your motivation to marry us, make sure we don't work, and have kids by you. We have learned to have an exit strategy.

Nowadays, most families require both parties to be smart enough to produce a substantial income to make it. And women are starting to do better than men. While a woman's financial superiority in a relationship shouldn't be a factor, it does deliver a blow to the man's ego. For the most part, she doesn't feel more superior to you, because she still needs to know that she has a competent husband, despite the inequality in income. This is just a case where men let their FEELINGS get in the way of maintaining a good relationship. That's not to say that some women don't feel superior after they surpass their mates financially (I know women who don't deposit ALL their money into the joint accounts, or feel that they should have more of a say since they put the most money in.) but the biggest problem in relationships will always be communication.

Honest communication about the dynamic of relationships would solve a lot of these problems. When you stop talking because you don't want to feel like you're whining (what do you want her to do? Stop working? NO.) you GIVE her that power. You forget that women are natural leaders. PERIOD. You don't want to do something, or you're just sitting around moping (and hopes she begs for your help to open the pickle jar), she gets it done. Then you start feeling like 'well I guess she just doesn't need me', and start holding your own pity party, and you start visiting escorts with HER hard-earned money to give yourself an ego boost( yeah, I killed myself with that one! LOL)

Case in point, if anyone watches Housewives of OC, Vicki Gunvalson, the insurance lady whose husband stays at home. Her husband spends most of his time with her on camera taking digs at her about how she works too much and how he wants to really treat her like the lady she is, but she has grown a pair of balls, and he LOST his, so they say they have an 'agreement' I guess that he'll remain a kept man, and she'll be the breadwinner. And I guess he'll continue to nag her like a bitch until they divorce.

I say don't be afraid to talk about your feelings, gentlemen!

Great post, Marshall.
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