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john_galt · 03-18-2011, 08:22 AM

In 1980 the Iranians ran Jimmy Carter around like a fool but when that cowboy Ronald Reagan took office the Imans gave up the hostages because they were convinced that Reagan was coming to take them back.

In 1996 the Bosnians continued to kill each other despite air attacks by NATO forces on ground units. Only when the US moved ground troops from Macedonia into the theater did the bad guys stop killing.

In 2004 Khadaffi dropped his plans to obtain nuclear weapons when he saw what happened to Iraq and Hussein. He knew that Bush would come for him if he persisted.

For three weeks the world and the US have huffed and puffed about what Khadaffi is doing to his own people. Khadaffi just started killing more people in response to the protests of the world. Last night the UN voted to establish a "No Fly" zone and England, France, and Italy have stepped forward to carry out the threat. Within the last hour Khadaffi announced that he is willing to stand down and allow the rebels to remain in Benghazi.

Do you think that liberals finally understand that threatened force has to be believed in order to be effective and that a well received threat can sometimes win the day whereas vacillating doesn't scare anyone. Sometimes you have to go cowboy on someone.

1963Cobra · 03-18-2011, 09:04 AM

No They will never get it -

Philhelm · 03-18-2011, 10:28 AM

I assume that Congress won't get to vote on this? How is this Constitutional, exactly? Let the U.N. and Europe deal with it if they are so inclined. I feel no need to waste taxpayer money on such nonsense, especially considering that we haven't finished the conflicts that we started a decade ago.

I'm still waiting on a response to the Beardless Gandalf thread.

Longermonger · 03-18-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john_galt

Do you think that liberals finally understand...

This liberal understands that Gaddafi isn't really standing down. He's playing you like a piano.

CuteOldGuy · 03-18-2011, 10:50 PM

We don't care about the people of Libya, we care about their oil. With all the oil in ANWAR and the Dakotas, it shouldn't be an issue. Not one more drop of blood for oil. Not now, not ever! We are so damn afraid we might interfere with some caribou or polar bears we refuse to drill in ANWAR, but are perfectly willing to send American service men and women to die, so we can pay countries that hate us for their oil. I would much rather inconvenience a polar bear than have one more American stub their toe on foreign soil so we can buy their oil. It was an outrage when President Bush did it, and it is an outrage that President Obama has not ended it. I'd like to see them both on trial in the Hague.

john_galt · 03-19-2011, 01:15 AM

Congratulation Monger, you made my point. Liberals don't understand the use of force. Khadaffi is playing OBAMA because he knows that Obama is blowing smoke again.

Longermonger · 03-19-2011, 03:45 AM

Galt, you need to make up your mind.

In your first post you claimed that Gaddafi caved because England, France, and Italy stepped forward to carry out a threat under a UN resolution.

I corrected you. Gaddafi is only pretending to comply for the time being. Gaddafi fooled you into thinking that he really was standing down.

You then changed your story. You now claim that Gaddafi is fooling Obama, not you. And that Obama is just "blowing smoke".

I'll correct you again. Obama runs America, and America is behind this whole thing. From the UN resolution to supporting our allies England, France, and Italy. Obama is smart enough to know that he is FORCED to take action to prevent a genocide, yet the APPEARANCE of US involvement would be counter-productive. So he's using proxies to fight. Simple really. I thought you were a military man. Why didn't you figure this out?

Longermonger · 03-19-2011, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

We don't care about the people of Libya, we care about their oil (41.5 billion barrels). With all the oil in ANWAR (~10.4 billion barrels) and the Dakotas (~3.7 billion barrels), it shouldn't be an issue (US uses 7.3 billion barrels per year). Not one more drop of blood for oil. Not now, not ever! We are so damn afraid we might interfere with (kill) some caribou or polar bears we refuse to drill in ANWAR, but are perfectly willing to send American service men and women to die, so we can pay countries that hate us for their oil. (Alaska hates us too. Just look at Sarah Palin. Waka waka waka LOL.) I would much rather inconvenience (kill) a polar bear than have one more American stub their toe on foreign soil so we can buy their oil. It was an outrage (outrage I say!) when President Bush did it, and it is an outrage that President Obama has not ended it. I'd like to see them both on trial in the Hague.

1. Maths.
2. Snopes.

EVEN IF all of that technically recoverable oil were able to be pumped now instead of 20 years from now, it would only fuel America for 2 years. Since the oil market is not a free market and has a price fixing cartel, OPEC, then your price at the pump would stay about the same. All you'd accomplish is pissing off the Saudis and keeping them in power for 2 more years in the future.

If you didn't drive a 6000 pound truck or SUV around, out troops wouldn't have to go secure cheap oil abroad. Everyone with a vehicle over 3000 pounds just needs to look in the mirror to find the enemy.

john_galt · 03-19-2011, 07:27 AM

You really do believe the shit you're slinging don't you... (head shaking)

Cheaper2buyit · 03-19-2011, 10:54 AM

My suv is about 7500pd but I like the man in the mirror can't we all just get along.

Philhelm · 03-19-2011, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longermonger

Galt, you need to make up your mind.

In your first post you claimed that Gaddafi caved because England, France, and Italy stepped forward to carry out a threat under a UN resolution.

I corrected you. Gaddafi is only pretending to comply for the time being. Gaddafi fooled you into thinking that he really was standing down.

You then changed your story. You now claim that Gaddafi is fooling Obama, not you. And that Obama is just "blowing smoke".

I'll correct you again. Obama runs America, and America is behind this whole thing. From the UN resolution to supporting our allies England, France, and Italy. Obama is smart enough to know that he is FORCED to take action to prevent a genocide, yet the APPEARANCE of US involvement would be counter-productive. So he's using proxies to fight. Simple really. I thought you were a military man. Why didn't you figure this out?

I agree with almost everything you have said here. However, I do not believe that the U.S. should be involved at all. If I were to accept that it's our business to police the world, then yes, I would agree that it would be wise of Obama to use proxies, especially considering the current global politcal climate.

Apparently you were right on the money about Gaddafi playing the West like fools.

CuteOldGuy · 03-20-2011, 11:06 PM

Longer, please get your facts straight. There are estimated over 400 billion barrels of oil in the Dakotas. And if you want to get technical, yeah, I'd rather see dead caribou and polar bears than flag draped coffins of our fighting men and women. Call me heartless.

You know, they said ten years ago that we couldn't drill there because the oil wouldn't reach the market for ten years. Guess what? We'd have it now if those back then had any sense.

And for the record, I drive a compact car and get 35 mpg. It weighs about 2200 pounds. Another straw argument shot to hell.

And also for the record, caribou are flourishing along the Alaska pipeline. And Sarah Palin can teach you how to gut one of those suckers.

Longermonger · 03-24-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philhelm

I agree with almost everything you have said here. However, I do not believe that the U.S. should be involved at all. If I were to accept that it's our business to police the world, then yes, I would agree that it would be wise of Obama to use proxies, especially considering the current global politcal climate.

Apparently you were right on the money about Gaddafi playing the West like fools.

Would you fire some cruise missiles, let some jets fly sorties, and possibly overstep your legal authority as Commander in Chief to save a whole city of civilians from getting killed? Would you care if there was a hollow threat of impeachment? No. The right thing to do is save innocent lives. President Obama already prevented the genocide that was going to take place. He's claimed the moral high ground and can already claim victory, even if the US steps out and lets NATO take over.

Meanwhile, haters be hatin'! Obama's already moved on to next week and he's winning more than Charlie Sheen. Lol

Longermonger · 03-24-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Longer, please get your facts straight. There are estimated over 400 billion barrels of oil in the Dakotas. And if you want to get technical, yeah, I'd rather see dead caribou and polar bears than flag draped coffins of our fighting men and women. Call me heartless.

You know, they said ten years ago that we couldn't drill there because the oil wouldn't reach the market for ten years. Guess what? We'd have it now if those back then had any sense.

And for the record, I drive a compact car and get 35 mpg. It weighs about 2200 pounds. Another straw argument shot to hell.

And also for the record, caribou are flourishing along the Alaska pipeline. And Sarah Palin can teach you how to gut one of those suckers.

There are an estimated seventy bazillion barrels of monkeys in my big toe. If you ask who estimated such an outrageous number, I'll cite a chain email from a crazy man and his monkey industry website. OK...now it's our turn. What are your sources for that amount? And what is the technically recoverable amount?

I'm glad to hear that your Japanese car is lightweight. CRX? Miata? Be careful with your old car, though. They don't have a lot of the SRS safety equipment like new cars.

CuteOldGuy · 03-26-2011, 12:14 AM

Longer, maybe I did a search like you do, and stop when I find what agrees with me, regardless of whether it is true. However, I'm confident about my numbers, Having been born and raised in North Dakota, I know people who are actually involved in the industry, and not just surfing random left-wing websites. Sorry to disappoint you, Longer.