Can you be busted after the fact?

[skuproductions]

I have a a question that I was hoping could be answered.

If you see a provider and the deed is done as planned, and you leave without a problem. Can you be charged at a later time?

Hypothetical situation:
See a provider, all goes normally. At the end the provider shares that she was busted the week prior and has court the next day. (revealed during some basic conversation at the end of the session) The provider also talks about another provider in the area helping LE. This of course raises gets the nerves going. But you then leave with no LE involved at all.

Can you be busted after the fact if the session was recorded or something like that? Or does the arrest need to / typically only take place at the time of the session? Can a provider roll over on Johns later if there is proof of some sort? Would a situation like this be cause for some paranoia?

[Guest032516]

Yes you can be busted after the fact. Most crimes have a statute of limitations after which charges cannot be brought. Crimes like murder do not have a statute of limitations.

Of course, unless the session was recorded or otherwise witnessed by a cop, it is difficult to prove anything after the fact.

If only the provider is testifying, it is your word against hers. If you say that you had sex with her, but you never gave her any money, how can the police prove otherwise? Unless you're a dumb shit who paid by check, of course.

[skuproductions]

LOL, this hypothetical person did not pay be check. That would be pretty dumb.

Typical rules, lay an envelope on a table, don't talk about it. She did ask how much was in it. To which this hypothetical person had a brain fart and said the amount, but that is it. More just worried about if the plate number of the persons car was written down for ID purposes.

[Capt. Lincoln F. Stern]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

Yes you can be busted after the fact. Most crimes have a statute of limitations after which charges cannot be brought. Crimes like murder do not have a statute of limitations.

Of course, unless the session was recorded or otherwise witnessed by a cop, it is difficult to prove anything after the fact.

If only the provider is testifying, it is your word against hers. If you say that you had sex with her, but you never gave her any money, how can the police prove otherwise? Unless you're a dumb shit who paid by check, of course.

Correct me if I am wrong but you can lift a finger print off a dollar bill.

Would be hard to explain how the provider has over 100 dollars worth in bill with your print on it if you did not pay her.
And a recording might not pass muster since there is another thread that about recording a cop got someone in trouble
http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=165447

I did some research and I am not a lawyer but it seems to record a conversation that is face to face the recorder has to be in plain view. Now that being said there are smart phones that can do this and or can have apps installed to do so .

Seeing a cell phone laying on a table would not trigger any red flags, and who is to say she did not speed dial someone to ease drop on the other end?

(yes I know I just raised A LOT of red flags in the paranoia area but it can be done)

Look at AMP's, you walk into them, they all have dim lighting so you really do not see cameras, and even so there are some that are small and do not have an LED to indicate they are on, and those that do.. well some black tape and its covered.

[Bebe Le Strange]

Originally Posted by skuproductions

Typical rules, lay an envelope on a table, don't talk about it. She did ask how much was in it. To which this hypothetical person had a brain fart and said the amount, but that is it. More just worried about if the plate number of the persons car was written down for ID purposes.

...and that is wrong, you can still be busted for intent if you lay the envelope on the table. However your right that it is something to be proved in a court, but if you are being set up by a provider working with LE the envelope on the table will still be used as proof against you.

[London Rayne]

Best tactic I ever heard about was from an Attorney in New Orleans. He would buy an additional wallet, pack of gum, and a pair of cheap sunglasses for each encounter. He would put the donation in the wallet along with some fake business cards, and leave all of the items on the table as if he forgot them. He would then send a text message saying, "Hi so and so I seem to have forgotten my things on the dresser, can you hold on to them for me?" Classic!

Now of course if you tell someone to do this or publish it on your site for pete's sake, it's pretty much worthless but you get the point. It just appeared as if he left all of his belongings and the text message was a record of him saying so. If that sneaky biaaatch steals his money, that's on her lol.

[Ed Highlight]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

Best tactic I ever heard about was from an Attorney in New Orleans. He would buy an additional wallet, pack of gum, and a pair of cheap sunglasses for each encounter. He would put the donation in the wallet along with some fake business cards, and leave all of the items on the table as if he forgot them. He would then send a text message saying, "Hi so and so I seem to have forgotten my things on the dresser, can you hold on to them for me?" Classic!

Leave it to Big Easy Lawyer!! I'm going to the Dollar Store right now for a couple dozen wallets and sunglasses....London, can we try this out to see if it works??

[Capt. Lincoln F. Stern]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

Best tactic I ever heard about was from an Attorney in New Orleans. He would buy an additional wallet, pack of gum, and a pair of cheap sunglasses for each encounter. He would put the donation in the wallet along with some fake business cards, and leave all of the items on the table as if he forgot them. He would then send a text message saying, "Hi so and so I seem to have forgotten my things on the dresser, can you hold on to them for me?" Classic!

Now of course if you tell someone to do this or publish it on your site for pete's sake, it's pretty much worthless but you get the point. It just appeared as if he left all of his belongings and the text message was a record of him saying so. If that sneaky biaaatch steals his money, that's on her lol.

I like this idea... or find a cheap money clip.

[London Rayne]

Originally Posted by Ed Highlight

Leave it to Big Easy Lawyer!! I'm going to the Dollar Store right now for a couple dozen wallets and sunglasses....London, can we try this out to see if it works??

I didn't just see that lol.

[laserface]

Obligatory disclaimer, I'm not an attorney, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm just some guy who's done some research on this in the past. So this isn't legal advice or anything. Consult an attorney if you have a real concern.

The law varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. But, in general, you can't be arrested for a misdemeanor offense without a warrant unless the offense is committed in the presence of an officer (or of a citizen making a citizen's arrest), and the arrest occurs at the time of the offense or as soon as possible thereafter. There are some exceptions, but I'm not aware of any jurisdictions where anything related to the hobby would be an exception. Here's how the law works on one jurisdiction:

http://legalupdatesonline.com/4th/172#cont191

If they want to arrest you afterwards, they need to take their probable cause before a judge, and get an arrest warrant. Whether LE would do that in the case of a misdemeanor hobby-related offense I suppose would depend on the circumstances, and how badly they wanted you in particular.

But basically, they can't witness you commit an offense, let you go about your business, then come to your house a couple days later to arrest you for it. At least, not without a warrant.

Now, if LE has probable cause to suspect that someone's committed a felony offense (the only hobby-related things I can think off offhand where this might come into play might be pandering or promoting), they don't need to witness it personally, the arrest doesn't necessarily have to happen at the time of the offense, and they don't necessarily need a warrant to make an arrest.

Of course, if they just want to hassle someone, all bets are off - they could arrest you simply to cause you embarrassment and inconvenience, even knowing that they wouldn't be able to make any charges stick. Or they might show up at your house (in the presence of your family) to "ask about" why you went to a motel and went into the room of a known provider. They know that, even if charges are dismissed (or never even filed), you might still have to spend a night in jail, and be put in the position of having to explain to your family why the police are asking you about being in a provider's motel room, having to explain to your employer why you didn't show up for work that day if they arrest you anyway, etc. This is where the "you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride" thing comes into play...

[London Rayne]

Yep! You can be "arrested" for just about anything...I was for telling a cop I was going to smoke in my own home lol. It's when the DA can't prosecute that these cases get thrown out of court. Most of the scenarios I have seen where the arrests were made afterwards, have always been a full on sting with a decoy. They would watch a house, hotel, ect. and copy the license plates of everyone who went in.

The girl was no regular provider though, but a decoy who was there specifically to do this. A month later they pick up 20 or so guys caught off guard, but the whole time they were on tape, camera, etc. Most of these stings also had drug trafficking involved which is a double whammy lol. I don't think they would devote that many resources towards busting escorts on that alone. It is always drugs or sex traffickers in the mix when these big ones go down.

From my understanding, cops cannot use nude photos and they rarely use one with any facial shots...it's too risky that some crazed loon would stalk the cop once he finds out she was setting guys up...not to mention someone may identify her as LE. This is why many guys avoid BP ads that are fully clothed with no facial shot. Not exactly 100 percent on this, but it's what I was always told. What they CAN do is leave an ad up that is already placed by a provider they have busted, and have her set up guys the rest of the day lol.

[davidsmith0123]

Laws re taping conversations vary by state. For example, in Texas the rule is that *one* party to a conversation has to know the convo is being recorded. That stops LE from recording two people without a warrant, but it doesn't stop a client or a provider from recording their conversation with each other without the other knowing, and without a recorder sitting on a table beeping or flashing or otherwise indicating it is recording.

If a provider or client was working for LE, don't know if they could record in Texas without a warrant, as I do not know the legalities of working with LE. But presumably in that situation the point is moot as LE would have a warrant.

Sorry, not trying to expand anyone's choice set! I certainly don't want to be recorded. Just trying to inform re the legalities.

None of the above applies to video recordings. That is another matter.

[sky_wire]

Originally Posted by laserface

The law varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. But, in general, you can't be arrested for a misdemeanor offense without a warrant unless the offense is committed in the presence of an officer.....

I'm not sure that there is much variation to this rule.

......

Officers may make make a warrantless misdemeanor arrest in a public place if the offense occurred in the presence or view of the officer even if the offense could not result in a jail sentence and in absence of any compelling need for immediate action (Atwater v. City of Lago Vista, 532 U.S.318, 121 S. Ct. 1536 (2001) custodial arrest of mother in front of her small children for seatbelt infraction not violative of the Fourth Amendment).

Warrantless arrests in Texas for crimes not committed in the presence or view of a police officer are authorized in only limited circumstances. For example, in a case in which two store employees pursued a person whom they had observed shoplifting an item worth only $20, the warrantless arrest by the police officer who took over the pursuit was not authorized and resulted in a reversal of the conviction when the trial court failed to suppress evidence obtained after the illegal arrest [ Moore v. State, 55 S.W.3d 652, 655 (Tex. App., San Antonio 2001, no pet.)] . A citizen's arrest (an arrest by a "peace officer or any other person") must be for a felony or a breach of the peace to be valid [C.C.P. Art. 14.01]. To be considered a breach of the peace, the act complained of must be one which disturbs or threatens to disturb the tranquility of the citizenry [ Woods v. State, 152 Tex. Crim. 338 , 213 S.W.2d 685, 687 (1948)] . An offense is deemed to have occurred within a person's presence when any of the senses afford an awareness of its occurrence [ Clark v. State, 117Tex. Crim. 153, 35 S.W.2d 420, 422 (1931) ]. Thus, an arrest can be made when an officer approaching a stopped vehicle smells marijuana [ Isam v. State, 582 S.W.2d 441, 444 (Tex. Crim. App. 1979)] or sees contraband in plain view [ Hennessey v. State, 732 S.W.2d 387, 389-390 (Tex. App., Houston [14th Dist.] 1987, pet. ref.)] ; but see State v. Steelman and Steelman, 93 S.W.3d 102, 108 (Tex. Crim. App. 2002) odor of marijuana emanating from house with several occupants does not provide probable cause because officers had no idea who was possessing or using marijuana; but see Dickey v. State, 96 S.W.3d 610, 614 (Tex. App., Houston 1st Dist.] 2002, no pet.) distinguishing homes and automobiles that may be searched based upon odor of marijuana alone].

[Energy]

How, exactly, would they find your home a couple of days later unless you use your real name, or pay by check or credit card?

[Energy]

What did this fictitious person reveal to the provider that would allow LE to find him? Real name? Check or credit card? What?