When people are allowed to say idiotic things unchallenged

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

what are you talking about? who is a racist and who is a bigot?

Right! I am totally confused by her comment.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by Naomi4u

I read/was told Jesus was killed by Jews.

Sorry to those that think otherwise!

None of you were there when was he was killed so it is plain just plain stupid to argue who is right or wrong.

Read, where? told, by whom with what evidence?

As stated previously the Jews had no authority to execute anyone, the Romans were the only ones who could do so.

@nina: so many Jews have been killed over the years over this misguided idea that to see it being posted as a fact is beyond disturbing. You have every right to post these statements just like I have every right to now make you the only person on my ignore list.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Naomi4u

Right! I am totally confused by her comment.

It`s a typical Lauren - comment

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

Read, where? told, by whom with what evidence?

As stated previously the Jews had no authority to execute anyone, the Romans were the only ones who could do so.

@nina: so many Jews have been killed over the years over this misguided idea that to see it being posted as a fact is beyond disturbing. You have every right to post these statements just like I have every right to now make you the only person on my ignore list.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Unless you were there when he was killed what you stated here is another opinion .. not a fact.

Mark 14—15, Matthew 26—27, Luke 22—23, and John 18—19

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

It`s a typical Lauren - comment

Yeah totally bizzare.

[Kyndra]

The truth... as long as its not in front of other people when it could be embarrassing ...Then thats just rude...My opinon only

[NinaBrooke]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_in_Buddhism

http://pandc.ca/?cat=carl_jung&page=jung_nazis

here is also the reference to dalai lama and karma as a reference for jews. I agree that maybe i was not best informed that it was not jews that killed Jesus, but i think it still was Dalai Lama who was called a Nazi for his statement and i used him as a reference.

Plus , if the holocaust was not religiously motivated too, ánd why was the swastika used which is a pretty religious symbol? Aka Karma and stuff? The Nazi Ideology was also religiously motivated and it was not a scientific motivation to kill Jews. I mean that is just a bit too simple. The racial ideology at that time was more than enough motivated by religion. There were superiour and inferiour people even C.G Jung has written about that, which was motivated largely by religious contexts and was referred to being a Nazi too. He also never apologized for the statements he made on Jews.

I am acknowleding the fact that just reading stuff on Karma and it being a fascist reference might have been too shortsigthed but the holocaust was definetely also a religious movement. Swastika and superiourity complex included.


So?
If you want to put me on a block list for quoting Dalai Lama and CG Jung so be it. Then yo must block everyone that believes in Karma too, because Karma can be very fascist and everyone who reads Dalai Lama who claims that Jesus was killed by Jews which was one of the reasons for the holocaust as well?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

that is not the whole truth. Nazis also entitled their action with religion and especially with the New Age stuff. Where do you think does their symbol the swastika come from ? there have been a lot of research on the base of their idols and where the "Aryan" comes from.

As far as I know, the geographic origins of the Aryan people are still being debated. I do know that the Persians—the Iranians (Iran is derived from Aryan)—count the Aryans as forebears. As such, I have never quite understood the Nazi claim that German Aryans were the master race while also claiming that people, e.g., Persian Aryans, of the same stock were inferior. I’m sure no one in the Nazi hierarchy lost an iota of sleep over the hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by ninasastri

Its a lot of New age BS. So to say only science and not models of religion or such has done the basement for their wars and their racial ideology and whatnot is an understatement. The catholicism especially was also a reason on the holocaust. They wanted to make an aryan race. and the aryan ideology is not genetically based but ideological new agey worship. It was simple a cruel combination of new agey and catholic ideals with the worst things of science

Sa_artman addressed our concerns about your charges against Catholicism. It’s interesting that you insist that the Nazis were guilty of mystical, New Age excesses and Catholic dogma. In my mind, you cannot be dogmatically Catholic and practice New Age mysticism. Furthermore, I checked Wiki for an explanation of New Age mysticism (because, I admit, I know but little about this topic—I do like some of the music and the incense – LOL). The complete definition was about three paragraphs long, but fundamentally, Wiki explained that New Age practitioners are often esoteric eclectics, who pick and choose their symbols and beliefs from older theistic, pantheistic and atheistic religious traditions while simultaneously rejecting all established religions equally: including Christianity; thus, Catholicism. How can you claim that the Nazis were both when both are mutually exclusive of the other?

Originally Posted by ninasastri

Besides a lot of nazis were gay too :-)

And what of the Night of the Long Knives and the tens of thousands of homosexuals persecuted unto death in the concentration camps? Was this the way of the Nazis benevolently bestowed acceptance? It reeks of the same tolerance they bestowed upon the Jews.

Originally Posted by ninasastri

The nazis used science to specialice and perfect their capacity to murder.

Correct. Same as I’ve stated above: science employed without humanity.

Originally Posted by ninasastri

The important "Zigeuner" (Gypsy-question) was based on that. Geneticall the gypsies were more aryan but somehow they had to find an excuse to kill them too.

The Romani as Aryans? Interesting note, and you might be right. Yet, I’ve never seen anything on the subject.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Sa_artman addressed our concerns about your charges against Catholicism. It’s interesting that you insist that the Nazis were guilty of mystical, New Age excesses and Catholic dogma. In my mind, you cannot be dogmatically Catholic and practice New Age mysticism. Furthermore, I checked Wiki for an explanation of New Age mysticism (because, I admit, I know but little about this topic—I do like some of the music and the incense – LOL). The complete definition was about three paragraphs long, but fundamentally, Wiki explained that New Age practitioners are often esoteric eclectics, who pick and choose their symbols and beliefs from older theistic, pantheistic and atheistic religious traditions while simultaneously rejecting all established religions equally: including Christianity; thus, Catholicism. How can you claim that the Nazis were both when both are mutually exclusive of the other?



The Romani as Aryans? Interesting note, and you might be right. Yet, I’ve never seen anything on the subject.

you make a very good point on that too. I admit my shortcomings. Overruled!
As i said i just read Dalai lamas Statement on Karma and why the holocaust was to be explained by Karma. So - you guys bring better points and i admit that! You can hardly be a new agey person and a catholic. True too! Good point. Well thought of. There have been researches made too on New age and the reference to Nazi-Ideology of Superiourity. There is a book called "Schwarze Sonne" (Black sun) who explains all the symbols of the new age and how they were used in fascist ideologies of superiourity and being elected and such.

Unlike Lauren i can at least admit when my arguments are not well thought of. I admit i have not digged deep enough into the subject. I was raised in a country where you are surrounded by the aftermath of the holocaust all the time . She survived because she was a doctor. They needed doctors. So i admit i am a bit biased on the catholics. But it was never my intention to bash a religion.

The Romani as Aryans, here i am bulletproof . It was an important meeting which was reason for the holocaust where it was first said that the "Jews" needed to be killed and they were talking about the aryans and on how to solve the problem with the Aryan gypsies. They did when referring to the gypsies as inferiour bloods whose genetics got mixed up with so many inferiours due to their travels within the world.

here a wikipedia quote: "The fact that Aryan is essentially a linguistic rather than a racial category led to some difficulty reconciling Nazi-supported racial typologies with the Aryan concept. There was some dispute about the position of the Roma, who were Indo-European in origin, speaking an Indo-Aryan language. Non-Indo-European Africans and Asians were automatically excluded, though Nazi views regarding the East Asian cultures, such as the Japanese, Chinese and Tibetan peoples strayed from that belief significantly. In Africa, according to Alfred Rosenberg, only the Berbers from North Africa, particularly the Kabyles, were classified as Aryans[1

this statement also proofs that the "aryan question " was not only - hardly even - a genetical issue it was a religiously (new agey motivated one). Science was not allowed to publish anything against their ideologies. Non supportive scientists were also in concentration camps. So - science alone is hardly responsible as a monocausal act for the holocaust. That was my initial point being.

The ill-informed statement about Dalai lamas reference on how he explains Karma for the happenings to Jews was just a not very good argument to underline my point :-(. I admit other people have better points :-)

The gay question is an interesting one though, since new age is not really "anti gay" in its eclectic approach!

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

I am acknowleding the fact that just reading stuff on Karma and it being a fascist reference might have been too shortsigthed but the holocaust was definetely also a religious movement. Swastika and superiourity complex included.

So?
If you want to put me on a block list for quoting Dalai Lama and CG Jung so be it. Then yo must block everyone that believes in Karma too, because Karma can be very fascist and everyone who reads Dalai Lama who claims that Jesus was killed by Jews which was one of the reasons for the holocaust as well?

'Definitely also' is a way too much of a generalization. The Nazis also killed millions of Communist (read up on the Marxist Jews/Bavaria), liberals, gays, misfits, and pretty much anyone that didn't stand up to the Aryan ideal. I don't dispute the religious undertones, but to say any one knowingly went along with a mass extinction is (re-Catholics) is a bit strong. By that standard we can blame all Germans (present withstanding) for the Holocaust as well.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

The Nazi Ideology was also religiously motivated and it was not a scientific motivation to kill Jews. I mean that is just a bit too simple. The racial ideology at that time was more than enough motivated by religion.

It matters naught that you (or I) call their “science” a religion. They called it a “science.” They acted according to the findings of their “science,” and they used their “science” to justify their action.

Columbus did not sail three small ships towards the west because he knew there was a New World waiting to be discovered. He sailed west because he knew—because his mathematical calculations stood as his proof—that he could reach China. What you and I know to be true is irrelevant and had no affect on Columbus’ actions. Columbus acted on what he knew. He acted on his “science.” The same is true of the Nazis.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

And what of the Night of the Long Knives and the tens of thousands of homosexuals persecuted unto death in the concentration camps? Was this the way of the Nazis benevolently bestowed acceptance? It reeks of the same tolerance they bestowed upon the Jews.

gosh!!! not openly gay of course!!! Nazis hated gays. But there is evidence that some high ranking nazi participants were also gay. But that does not mean that nazis supported being gay. Hell no!! If the gay nazis were openly gay, they would have been killed!! The ones who were did everything to hide their homosexuality and disguise it!!!

Also when it came in handy for the nazis they also used jewish doctors to care for their wounded in the war.
Their were jewishdoctors in Concentrations camps whose only reason for being kept alive was because they were medical assistance for the nazis and were forced to take care of the wounded soldiers and worse. So the nazis were quite hypocritical too with ther "love for work" The "useless" people (women and kids) got killed first and then the usefull ones got exploited before getting killed. Very rational this machine worked.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

It matters naught that you (or I) call their “science” a religion. They called it a “science.” They acted according to the findings of their “science,” and they used their “science” to justify their action.

Columbus did not sail three small ships towards the west because he knew there was a New World waiting to be discovered. He sailed west because he knew—because his mathematical calculations stood as his proof—that he could reach China. What you and I know to be true is irrelevant and had no effect on Columbus’ actions. Columbus acted on what he knew. He acted on his “science.” The same is true of the Nazis.

true too. But the aryan ideology is not a scientific reference. They had quite the hassle to squeeze that one into their science :-). Plus , lets not forget that scientists who did not support their ideology would have been put in concentration camps, right? So there was not really room for scientific "BIAS" like it usually is. The Nazi Scientists btw had a hard time getting a job afterwards without changing names and such :-)

That is one of the reason why at some universities there is a quote standing that "science is free" and not to be motivated by politics , religions and such. The science and its teachings is free. After the WWII it was stated as such liberty. Strictly spoken - you can also make fascist references on a university building because of that. That is, when you discuss it in a scientific manner, which will hardly happen since fascism can`t be scientific really. But as long as you bring arguments and discuss in scientific matters you can do research on whether there is a superiour race or not :-). Its just you won`t ever find evidence that is. Neither did the Nazis. But all their body models and face models and all that stuff comes from this time.

The fact nowadays that we worship some body-types as superiour or inferiour or eating disorders and such also come from the fact that a good body or a certain type of body IS referenced too as a certain character. Or a certain face is considered as beautiful (aka the Jewish nose and stuff) . that is very superficial and was also used as "scientifc" reference in fascist times. so - even in nowadays times of anorectic bulimics or women wanting to have a certain body type is quite a fascist ideology. Body referenced as having the character types one likes.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

Read, where? told, by whom with what evidence?

Interesting that your screaming for references does not apply to Lauren. Shall i call that a scientific bias or a religious dogma :-) It seems that here when Naomi says something you scream for references but when Lauren does such statements you don`t call her out?

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

Interesting that your screaming for references does not apply to Lauren. Shall i call that a scientific bias or a religious dogma :-) It seems that here when Naomi says something you scream for references but when Lauren does such statements you don`t call her out?

He does it all the time. I have noticed him doing this to others .. just not Lauren and his other "HDH" friends.