When you and a client *really* disagree

[pjorourke]

Marketing is a lot like bluffing in poker -- you need to have a consistent story.

For example, consider a game of Hold-em. You have crap for cards at a tight table, nobody has opened so you decide to run a bluff from middle position and bet 3-4x the big blind. Now a bet like this from middle position often signifies a medium/large pocket pair. If the flop comes three blanks but two hearts, you put in a 50-75% of the pot bet to try and take it down. Everyone folds but the guy on the button -- who you think may have his own large pair or something like a nut flush draw. The turn comes up a Jack of Diamonds. Now you put in a pot size bet. You've told a consistent story. Your pre-flop bet said I have a pair. Your second bet says its bigger than the stuff on the board. Your turn bet says its now trip jacks. Even if this guy has pocket Aces, Kings or Queens (about a 4% chance of drawing trips on the last card) or a nut flush draw (a 20% chance), he should fold. Your story is compelling and most rational players will realize their expected chance of winning is much less than their pot odds so they will fold here.

Its the same with marketing. You can't talk about being "high end" and "exclusive" and expect to charge $500/hr if your pictures look like they were taken by your boyfriends cell phone, the website came out of a box, and your last job was standing in for gargoyles. It ain't going to sell.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by John Bull

Oh My! My head is spinning from all the changes in topic.

My head was spinning before I found this thread...now it is going like 78RPM

Originally Posted by ninasastri

yes that is because i am ONLY CATERING TO THE ELITE and offer QUALITY OVER QUANTITY
(that is when i am not broke - when i am broke its exactly the other way round - then i cater to the rest of the bastards and offer quantity over quality :-))) hahahahahaha) (just joking)

i cater to everyone. if a nice gent can`t afford my rates and has proof of it i even lower them. ha,.
and construction workers welcome! I consider them elite!!

Nina, with all due respect, you are new here and have introduced many different topics that have been asked/answered and discussed (at great length) in the forum over the last year or so here. You might benefit from doing some reading and getting a sense of the landscape.

[John Bull]

and your last job was standing in for gargoyles. by PJ

You may be sure that I'll steal this phrase. Love it!!

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Marketing is a lot like bluffing in poker -- you need to have a consistent story.

For example, consider a game of Hold-em. You have crap for cards at a tight table, nobody has opened so you decide to run a bluff from middle position and bet 3-4x the big blind. Now a bet like this from middle position often signifies a medium/large pocket pair. If the flop comes three blanks but two hearts, you put in a 50-75% of the pot bet to try and take it down. Everyone folds but the guy on the button -- who you think may have his own large pair or something like a nut flush draw. The turn comes up a Jack of Diamonds. Now you put in a pot size. You've told a consistent story. You pre-flop bet said I have a pair. Your second bet says its bigger than the stuff on the board. Your turn bet says its now trip jacks. Even if this guy has pocket Aces or Kings or a nut flush draw, he should fold. Your story is compelling and most rational players will fold here.

Its the same with marketing. You can't talk about being "high end" and "exclusive" and expect to charge $500/hr if your pictures look like they were taken by your boyfriends cell phone, the website came out of a box, and your last job was standing in for gargoyles. It ain't going to sell.

But to build on your (well done) analogy, many of the players in this game are not rational, so many get away with inconsistent marketing/branding and as a result confuse the hell out of things

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

But to build on your (well done) analogy, many of the players in this game are not rational, so many get away with inconsistent marketing/branding and as a result confuse the hell out of things

Agreed! And lots of people believe that Denny's food is delicious.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Denny's says its food is delicious.

It's a legend in its own mind.

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

and Starbucks thinks they know how to make coffee!

I've always thought Starbucks was overrated and overpriced. Just give me an old fashioned cup of joe any day (occasionally an excellent Kona).

Originally Posted by pjorourke

And lots of people believe that Denny's food is delicious.

I don't know how the stores (they are not restaurants) stay open. The food sucks, the service is poor and the customer service is non-existent. That about takes care of every facet of a good establishment.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

You're not someone I would look to for advice on being enlightened.

That wasn't my advice, it was Gandhi's.

Do you wish to comment on the advice or put down the one who offered it to you for free and with a humble heart?

How many enlightened people embrace hate btw, be very difficult to make it to the final stage of enlightenment with that mind-set?

Originally Posted by pjorourke

I didn't make any qualitative judgments. I just pointed out that there is a difference between what someone says for marketing and what they believe.

Denny's says its food is delicious.

Denny's says its food is delicious? I thought they mostly advertised great deals on breakfest.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie4DNsm4A2I&feature=re lated

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Agreed! And lots of people believe that Denny's food is delicious.

PJ, they think it is a good deal and it is to them. Damn near anything taste good to a poor hungry fuc'er.......

are you teasing me with a Grand Slam Special? Yummy, Yummy!

[John Bull]

Most of the Denny's in my neck of the woods closed because they were so dirty and poorly managed that people quit going.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by WTF

Denny's says its food is delicious? I thought they mostly advertised great deals on breakfest.

Like most businesses, they use different claims at different times.

[Ansley]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

what does long winded mean? sorry my english is not that perfect :-)

Since you are being compared to WTF, it means you talk a lot without much substance.

[discreetgent]

Heh, I had a long running joke with a gal I saw occasionally about going to Applebees. I managed to get her a t-shirt that the staff at Applebees were given but never did manage to do a dinner there, she retired before I got the chance (no, the 2 are not related lol)

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Like most businesses, they use different claims at different times.

Are you calling them a bait and switch kind of place?

[pjorourke]

In Denny's case, its a bacon and sausage kind of place.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Ansley

Since you are being compared to WTF, it means you talk a lot without much substance.

I thought that was the point of the forum. I sure as hell haven't seen any posts choked full of substance.

Now Ans, long winded had already been explained to her, why you using dat post to bust my chops? You mad at me cause of the braille joke?

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Like most businesses, they use different claims at different times.

Well delicious hasn't been one of them!

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by John Bull

Most of the Denny's in my neck of the woods closed because they were so dirty and poorly managed that people quit going.

I quit going due to that, and also on principle to object to the blatant discrimination in which they engaged.