Recent Alerts / Double Standards - Why can't Alerts be limited to the OP and the Accused?

[Whispers]

This thread in Alerts..... http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=151630 as well as a recent personal experience and some other conversations is behind this post......

Ladies - I don't care how you run your business. I'm not suggesting you run your business in any particular manner. Post your policies so prospective clients know it up front and go from there.


My advice to guys...... Guys - In my Opinion. Money on the table before any activities is the riskiest aspect of meeting with a provider unless you have extensive experience with her and even then, if you do, it shouldn't be an issue. I think it presets the highest risk to your getting ripped off or worse, busted.

Outside of getting ripped off or busted it also leaves you little to no recourse should services agreed upon not get delivered.

Example - I set something up with a dancer that had some pressing needs. She knew I saw one of her friends and approached me... We talked about hooking up at the hotel... then dinner and maybe a show... then back to the hotel for a few hours and agreed upon her asking price of $400 for the 6-8 hour evening. She gets to the hotel and is understandably nervous.... asks if we can go eat and have a few drinks first.... Off we go and at dinner she barely sips a few swallows of her wine and her phone is going nonstop. I offer to cancel and do this another night since it seems she is preoccupied to which she replies... Oh No... I'm OK...

Back at the Hotel Round 1 is fine... Not great... Not bad... Nothing I haven't experienced a time or two with a lady the first time.... She pops into the bathroom and I'm laying there when she comes out fully dressed....

OK.. What's up... I just got a call and need to pick up my son... OK... I get dressed and grab my things and tell her I will walk her to her car... She's refusing any attempt at eye contact.... She probably forgot she told me the situation about her son being in another's care due to a CPS issue.... As we are walking out the door I ask her what she thinks is fair and she looks at me kind of strange... I let her know we had agreed on a romp, followed by dinner, drinks and another romp or two with her hanging out with me for 6-8 hours... she knew up front and we had thoroughly discussed up front what was expected.... quality of course would have depended on chemistry.... a risk I was taking.... The tears come... The I need the money... I let her know that I don't pay $400 for dinner and a quickie and she knew that before she saw me......

I put her in her car with $200..... She called 15 minutes later offering to come back and make it up to me... Mood was already lost and Plan B had just answered her phone so I passed.... If she wants... I will see her again though....

Yes I ended up getting taken care of for the evening but had to shell out additional money for the gal that ended up delivering.

So the above thread in the Alert section has all this sympathy pouring in for the OP... I agree it's a bitch to get ripped off.....

But as some tend to complain about.... There are one hell of a set of Double Standards at play on the board.......

Had I paid her the full $400 or any other guy done the same and reported it... It would involve the OP getting piled on by guys saying.. ohh.. maybe she was having a bad day... give the gal the benefit of the doubt....maybe the chemistry wasn't there..... why didn't you bathe.... maybe it's because your fat... maybe you were too ugly..... why aren't you circumcised.....


In other words..... Ladies get ripped off and there is an outpouring of ass kissing as well as sympathy.....

Guys get ripped off and it it gets twisted to be his fault.....


Question 1 - Why is a provider getting shortchanged in an envelope "Alert Worthy" . It doesn't seem to be a "safety" issue as required for an alert.

Question 2 - Why can't Alert's be limited to posters with First Hand Knowledge of the specific event so they don't turn into ass kissing fests? Why not make it a warning/pointable infraction to post to an alert thread if you have not the OP or accused or you have no first hand information concerning the event to contribute.... Then we get the facts as reported minus the crap...

Question 3 - What suggestions do others have to "level the playing field" in this environment of "Ohh Poor baby" vs "suck it up and take your losses like a man" that seems to exist?


Once again ladies.... Your business is exactly that..... Your business... I am not trying to tell you what to do in a situation like this......

I run a business as well and have been ripped off and it sucks...

But I can't treat every potential customer as a potential thief up front and expect any repeat business.....

I do not have the solution for your problem and my post is from MY point of view as a client/consumer and is more about the inequality of the situations that seems to exist when we prepay for expectations unrealized.....

[nuglet]

"Example - I set something up with a dancer...." There's the problem, right there!

[Sexy Roxanne]

Well not only did he short her, he almost ran her over with his car....it's kinda alert worthy.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Sexy Roxanne

Well not only did he short her, he almost ran her over with his car....it's kinda alert worthy.

I disagree......

She put herself in that position Roxanne. She stated that she positioned herself in his doorway. She already knew she was getting ripped off.... Other than stepping outside to possibly get a license plate she went to far.

Do you know how many companies now a days will fire/terminate an employee for putting up any resistance or trying to follow a robber?

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by nuglet

"Example - I set something up with a dancer...." There's the problem, right there!

Why is that a problem Nuglet?

Many of the girls here were dancers before they were providers.

Some, like Maci Lynn, still are dancers.

You know as well as I do that guys plop hard earned money down for sessions with expectations and at times do not get what they desire.

Some just take it....

Some don't...... those that don't get a lot of grief from guys here....

You for example.....

Comment on the subject matter, answer a question posted or crawl back into bed and rest your old bones.... I think everyone already knows where you side on matters... your pink panties show in almost every post these days.....

[nuglet]

gee fella, kinda touchy this year aren't ya? I was just joshing ya.. geeze ... chill
someone has a cob up their butt.. "YOU FOR EXAMPLE".
Don't worry, I'll send your panties back..

[Budman]

I agree that there is way to much ass kissing / flirting going on and an alert should be limited to facts. I do think that the provider being shorted is alert worthy. I suppose she could have put it in the provider only area but some girls may not have access.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by nuglet

gee fella, kinda touchy this year aren't ya? I was just joshing ya.. geeze ... chill
someone has a cob up their butt.. "YOU FOR EXAMPLE".
Don't worry, I'll send your panties back..

Nope.. Just practicing my New Years Resolution to be less timid and withdrawn this year! And there is not a guy on this board that would be concerned with the kind of drawers I wear..... You on the other hand lose credibility every day....... Not that it matters to you..... I'm sure the Adorables all still love ya!

[levibob56]

Guys kissing up and flirting with women/provides? What is this world coming to! OMG
I think it's a ALERT to that person and to others, but also a way to vent or get it off your chest. Should it be in the Alerts, co-ed, or womens lockerroom I don't know.
I'm not sure why this thread was started. I know Max and I am sorry this happen to her. Unlike Whispers story there was a session that happened for a agreed price.

[Maxeen Monroe]

I think your situation and mine is very different. Had I shortened the session then I agree full donation is not right. But I was keeping up with my end of the agreement.

I asked for no sympathy. But it's nice that this community shows care at times. I am not surprised you started this thread at all.

I stated exactly what happened and your opinion of what is alert worthy doesn't mean shit to me. The mods can let me know if it should not be there. And if it should not be there then I apologize. But some ladies do not have access to the powder room and I feel it is in the proper place for them to get a heads up.

How I handled that situation and further situations is exactly as you already said "MY BUSINESS."

I did not say I was going to ask for the money up front but I did say I will not be accepting envelopes. Big difference.

Being robbed is alert worthy IMO. If I am wrong let the mods correct me. I will happily apologize and ask them to do what ever they need to do about it.

[Natalie Reign]

On the topic of what constitutes a worthwhile alert...

If a hobbyist gets ripped off by a provider, it's considered alert-worthy, is it not?

Therefore, it makes sense that a provider being ripped off (shorted) by a hobbyist should also be alert-worthy.

Regarding the "donation before" v. "donation afterward" debate:

On one hand, I can understand a hobbyist's reluctance to present a donation before services are delivered "as promised." But since many providers don't discuss specific services before a meeting, it's difficult to say what "as promised" actually means. Lately, I've had multiple hobbyists attempt to push the boundaries of what is acceptable in a specific session - scheduling an FBSM and expecting a nearly-full to full menu, scheduling a GFE session at a special rate and attempting to push fetish play (for which I usually require a higher donation anyways), etc.

While it's within the hobbyist's rights to ask for more in a session, or see how much he can get for his dollar, it's not exactly gentlemanly, especially if you don't already know the provider. But there is a definitely a double-standard here.

A hobbyist who offers a donation up front stands to risk losing it if the provider decides to vanish on him. But it works both ways. If a hobbyist requests certain services during a session (such as one of my recent clients requesting GFE services at FBSM rates once we were already in session), and does not receive them, there is a chance he will retaliate by shorting the provider... or worse.

Whispers, I can't help but wonder if you would have had the same issue with a seasoned provider. I'm certainly not passing judgment on the character of dancers (after all, I used to be one myself), but there is a bigger divide between dancers and providers than one might expect. Dancers are accustomed to "hustling" (for lack of a better word) customers for as much money as possible, then moving on to the next one. They're not generally accustomed to spending an extensive amount of time with one customer, anticipating reviews of their time, and hoping for word-of-mouth recommendations of their services to other customers. The "game" is different here than it is in a club.

But seriously... even vaguely insinuating that Maxeen was in effect "asking" to be nearly run over by the guy's car because she had the intelligence to know that she was about to be ripped off? Whether you believe she should have stayed in the room and cut her losses, or followed the guy down to the car, the hobbyist was in the wrong, not Maxeen.

I extend sympathy to whomever I feel was wronged in a given situation, be it a provider or hobbyist. I know that I don't ever want to be put in a position to perform outside of my menu to assure that I get paid, but I also understand that many hobbyists have been ripped off by unscrupulous providers. It always goes both ways.

[nuglet]

Originally Posted by Whispers

Nope.. Just practicing my New Years Resolution to be less timid and withdrawn this year! And there is not a guy on this board that would be concerned with the kind of drawers I wear..... You on the other hand lose credibility every day....... Not that it matters to you..... I'm sure the Adorables all still love ya!

For once you are correct even if there seems to be a case of diarrhea in your language, and your text....
what you say, or think doesn't matter at all .. to me and many others.

[Whispers]

Honey.....

Darling.......

Dear..............

We are not is disagreement at all.......

Originally Posted by Natalie Reign

On the topic of what constitutes a worthwhile alert...

If a hobbyist gets ripped off by a provider, it's considered alert-worthy, is it not?

Therefore, it makes sense that a provider being ripped off (shorted) by a hobbyist should also be alert-worthy.

I agree.... I don't believe either belong in the "Alert Section" as the section is defined..... I also believe both SHOULD be reported.... The point I really want to make regarding the reporting of an alert is that they turn into something else...... And additional rules or guidelines about Alerts in the Alert Section could prevent that. Since nothing HE did affected her safety in a manner she could not have prevented i just think it belonged in the Powder Room and in regards to ladies that don't have access.... Well there is similar information in the Locker Rooms that make it worthwhile for a guy to become a contributing member the same way that women should become verified....

Regarding the "donation before" v. "donation afterward" debate:

On one hand, I can understand a hobbyist's reluctance to present a donation before services are delivered "as promised." But since many providers don't discuss specific services before a meeting, it's difficult to say what "as promised" actually means.

I agree.... but with reviewed providers I can easily say "I'm looking for the kind of session BillyBob had" and they'll know what I'm expecting and I'll be justified in expecting it.

Lately, I've had multiple hobbyists attempt to push the boundaries of what is acceptable in a specific session - scheduling an FBSM and expecting a nearly-full to full menu, scheduling a GFE session at a special rate and attempting to push fetish play (for which I usually require a higher donation anyways), etc.

Understandable..... perhaps before meeting ladies with Multiple Menu Options need to find some comfortable way of confirming which items are being served.... I don't necessarily know the answer to that.. You are better suited... It is your business and anyone attempting to take advantage of it probably should have that posted but once again.... I doubt it is "Alert" worthy.... Unless you reach the point of being intimidated into it....

While it's within the hobbyist's rights to ask for more in a session, or see how much he can get for his dollar, it's not exactly gentlemanly, especially if you don't already know the provider. But there is a definitely a double-standard here.

I agree.....

A hobbyist who offers a donation up front stands to risk losing it if the provider decides to vanish on him. But it works both ways. If a hobbyist requests certain services during a session (such as one of my recent clients requesting GFE services at FBSM rates once we were already in session), and does not receive them, there is a chance he will retaliate by shorting the provider... or worse.


I'm sure you are correct and when that happens, once again, it should be reported.... I just don't see it as a public alert unless your safety is an issue..... By all means share the information with other providers....

Whispers, I can't help but wonder if you would have had the same issue with a seasoned provider.

Personally..... I did not HAVE a problem because seasoned provider or dancer, i am not intimidated by the event and will simply discuss the matter with the lady in a mature fashion. If you agree to see me for 6-8 hours for X Dollars and want to bail at 1.5-2 hours... don't expect X dollars.... A lot of guys lack that ability though and especially if they have paid up front....

The Problem comes from when the story is brought to the boards and all the ass kissing starts.....

And honestly, if more seasoned providers looked at spending an evening that included dinner, drinks and a few hours BCD for the kind of money I want to spend I certainly would see more providers.... I spent $660 that night and was happy doing it although it ended up across two ladies and lost some of the relaxing quality I wanted....

Please do not take that though to mean I think you or any of the girls are overpriced. It is your business.... Price yourselves as you see fit... I'll never offer you $1 less than you ask for....

I'm certainly not passing judgment on the character of dancers (after all, I used to be one myself), but there is a bigger divide between dancers and providers than one might expect.

I agree when it comes to the girls "new to all this"... With time though many are as reliable as you and many of the ladies here are.

Dancers are accustomed to "hustling" (for lack of a better word) customers for as much money as possible, then moving on to the next one. They're not generally accustomed to spending an extensive amount of time with one customer, anticipating reviews of their time, and hoping for word-of-mouth recommendations of their services to other customers. The "game" is different here than it is in a club.

I totally agree... A certain lady that has been around me for over 3 years is a Master Hustler and has separated 3 of my friends from money with promises of services never realized.... One to the tune of $700..... Another lady reportedly "stole" money from one of the guys at the last GC Party..... Although I felt bad for each of them THEY KNEW BETTER!.....Some of us NEVER put ourselves in those positions and NEVER lose a dollar ... Others get taken a few times before they learn.... Playing with Strippers presents MUCH more risk than playing with Providers but it also tends to generate greater Rewards as anything with risk tends to do.


But seriously... even vaguely insinuating that Maxeen was in effect "asking" to be nearly run over by the guy's car because she had the intelligence to know that she was about to be ripped off? Whether you believe she should have stayed in the room and cut her losses, or followed the guy down to the car, the hobbyist was in the wrong, not Maxeen.

I agree... But it was a part of what happened that she had total control over. HEY... I was robbed at Gun Point one night in the club and chased the guys in my car that did it for about 6 miles until the reality slowly kept into my brain about what I was doing and I turned around and went back. The desire to do what she did is great. Her Alert was NOT about him trying to run her over though.

I extend sympathy to whomever I feel was wronged in a given situation, be it a provider or hobbyist. I know that I don't ever want to be put in a position to perform outside of my menu to assure that I get paid, but I also understand that many hobbyists have been ripped off by unscrupulous providers. It always goes both ways.

We are in agreement on most everything I believe.... What my post is about is once again...... I believe alerts carry more value when they are not multi page long "Poor Baby" threads.. .and that everything that can/should be said should be limited to those with first hand knowledge....

And that guys getting ripped are unfairly ganged up on for mentioning it where ladies are supported..... It's not right....

I need a "Poor Baby" at times!

[Yssup Rider]

Anybody out there celebrating anything today? Like a JOB?

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Maxeen Monroe

I think your situation and mine is very different. Had I shortened the session then I agree full donation is not right. But I was keeping up with my end of the agreement.

I never suggested for a moment that you did not. I agree that you got ripped off and it is not fair.

I asked for no sympathy. But it's nice that this community shows care at times. I am not surprised you started this thread at all.

I stated exactly what happened and your opinion of what is alert worthy doesn't mean shit to me.

The mods can let me know if it should not be there. And if it should not be there then I apologize. But some ladies do not have access to the powder room and I feel it is in the proper place for them to get a heads up.

How I handled that situation and further situations is exactly as you already said "MY BUSINESS."

Until you bring them to the Board and then we all have an opinion as well as a right to comment on them.

I did not say I was going to ask for the money up front but I did say I will not be accepting envelopes. Big difference.

Really? hmmm... So no money up front and when he gives you the money no envelopes? Whatever you decide be clear about it.... I've been around a while, know what I am doing and would not exactly understand what you just meant by that.

Being robbed is alert worthy IMO. If I am wrong let the mods correct me. I will happily apologize and ask them to do what ever they need to do about it.

I didn't say it wasn't..... based on the stated guidelines for the forum though I questioned whether or not it rose to meeting safety issues.... Being "shorted" or scammed seems more appropriate to your situation.....

Anyway....

The thread is more about wanting to see more information and less personal commentary and ass kissing in alert threads as well as leveling the playing field where guys are concerned when they do not get what they should have in a session.

maybe you could pause and read a little more to understand my problem is not with you as much as the process.....