Addiction/Neurosis/What's Normal Anyway?

[jfred]

Okay let me see if I can be more clear.

I do think that many people (many, many) who are diagnosable as sex "addicts" might benefit from purposeful, healing-focused sexual exploration (of a sort that would be commonly labeled as promiscuous behavior). Yes ma'am. I would go so far to say that many (many, many) will never understand and live in harmony with their sexual urges unless they do exactly that. Sex has been so forbidden and associated with shame in their every experience.

I'm not "putting down" anyone, really. But I don't agree with them that "sex is a problem" (or with you, if you believe it).

Sexual healing, as I'm using the term, includes sexual understanding of oneself and joyful acceptance of one's sexual identity, with all it's peculiarities and the road one took (and is still traveling!) to find it. It is such a worthy and uniquely human goal! I'm skeptical of approaches to that goal that are dependent upon moral shame as a tool.

Let me add that I also believe that a professional sex-worker who (and this is important) is not overly burdened with guilt about what she's doing, is in a position be a tremendous help to guys on the journey to sexual healing. And, really, even bad sexual experiences can be learned from.

[hetta26]

You have really lost it

[jfred]

Originally Posted by hetta26

You have really lost it

Hmm...I assume you're referring to me.

My friend, have you considered that you really haven't found it?

Edit: Ha, I just scanned your posting history. You're a troll, dude. Go away, please.



I'd like to take this opportunity to add (and just to clarify) that my "four-in-two-days" situation is not the norm. And it certainly isn't a compulsive binge. I have more than one lover but normally meet with each on a more relaxed schedule. No one wants to be left out and the holidays make timing difficult.

[_Jayne_]

Originally Posted by jfred

Today and tomorrow I will have sex with 4 women. It could have been six but I'm old. Does anybody have a problem with that?

Uh... Is this like when the preacher asks if anyone objects to some pair-sum getting wedded ? ... I don't want to feel like I'm coming from the back of the church disrupting anything if it is. ( )

I used to have a friend , or rather co worker I guess you'd say, who would say as he walked in to the office and past my desk on the way to his office... , " Don't bother me... I'll be in my office fishing ".

Its the utter mortification I am hung up within when, not so long ago, it dawned on me that his magazine fishing... had a grander purpose than just to irritate me , to dream about being on a boat in the lake with a rod hanging over the ledge in the water ; feet up, miller light in paw. That's what I ALWAYS pictured in my mind when he'd announce that .. which was virtually every single day..

IGNORANCE IS BLISS... and I be wishing IN A REAL BAD WAY that I was still as BLISSFULL. I'm not much smarter .. but much less innocent.

SO... jfred... old buddy... ( speaking of the devil incidently ; imagine that )... when you say you plan on having sex with four women today and tomorrow... do you happen to mean literally? ( passing thought truncated for discretion and posterity ) Because if you DO MENSA THAT ... Does the Fourth one get paid more than the first? I mean DAMN J..... Thats really failry impressive. No volunteering to be one of the four.,.. that would be out of character for sure... but there should probably be a sliding scale if you are doing P4P activities.

YOU ASKING IF ANYONE OBJECTS TO ANYTHING YOU DO BLOWS MY MIND ... ACTAULLY.

Yes... I know.. I'm always the intruder in a conversation where my tone slams a discussion about what may appear to be about tomotoes initially, back, abruptly, into what actually is being discussed. ( female taste.. in this case ) ... but I'm told that's part of my charm. I actuallly do get it... believe it or not.. ; there just has to be a dumb brunette on every board. Plus.. I find it odd I've never seen your posts upon log in before.. and I had JUST HAD CONVERSATION WITH SELF ABOUT YOU.. OUTLOUD.

a fukin knowling.

hmmmm

wTh is wrong with You?

ok.. I'm thirsty now. The floor belongs to you again.

[ElisabethWhispers]

Originally Posted by jfred

...

Let me add that I also believe that a professional sex-worker who (and this is important) is not overly burdened with guilt about what she's doing, is in a position be a tremendous help to guys on the journey to sexual healing. And, really, even bad sexual experiences can be learned from.

First, I think that it's absolute great that you're such a sexual animal that you're enjoying carnal pleasure with four different women in a 48 hour time frame. I just have a special place in my heart for a male slut, or one who can handle multiple lovers. Of any age!

I think that women who are feeling a sense of guilt in this profession shouldn't be doing it. THAT is the problem with this work overall. So many women are mentally ill equipped to handle it.

I had an experience like your friend. When I finally discovered sex, I didn't need the internet. I was in Austin at UT and had about 20,000 men at my disposal and probably tried, pretty successfully, to plow through all of them.

It left me feeling like something was wrong with me. That isn't a good feeling. But being a sex addict didn't come into play until years later. And I don't really believe that people, if they're just honest with each other, have that problem very frequently.

An old friend of mine doesn't seem to know how to keep his penis in his pants. His forth wife is telling him that he is a sex addict. I've known this man over 30 years. He has a high sex drive. He's a GUY. He doesn't have a problem. He just isn't good with the whole monogamy thing. Never was.

Sounds like your friend has discovered the joys of sex, A LOT of it, and is suffering from the moral judgments, or perceived judgments of others and of her upbringing. It sucks to be in that position. I know.

But as YOU know, the more sex you have, the more you want.

I have heard that in other countries, people's attitudes about sex isn't as screwed up as ours are. Maybe that is true and maybe it isn't.

Bottom line is that I feel sorry for a young woman who is coming into her own, sexually, and she has to be burdened with the feelings that she has that something within her isn't right because she wants more and more and more. THEN? She is going to a 12-step program.

Have you read the lit on a sex 12-step program? It doesn't say much.

I would suggest that she probably doesn't have a problem. Just my early morning take on it. And ENJOY your trysts today. I'm hoping for a few myself! Grin.

Have a good holiday, jfred!

Sincerely,
Elisabeth

[FLWrite]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

...
An old friend of mine doesn't seem to know how to keep his penis in his pants. His forth wife is telling him that he is a sex addict. I've known this man over 30 years. He has a high sex drive. He's a GUY. He doesn't have a problem. He just isn't good with the whole monogamy thing. Never was....

That's the old, "boys will be boys" argument which historically doesn't seem to be effective with wives...

Good response, EW.

[Guest032213-02]

I don't think it is about the ability to say no, nor the need for sexual healing, as it is impossible to put a generalized stamp on a subject when every peron is entirely different.

From my experience, it is less about control, and more of a need to attain the brain buzz you get during a sexual experience. For decades that was the only emotional happiness I would feel. After therapy, now I hobby because it feels good, while still able to find happiness in other corners of life.

Stopping addiction is about quieting the brains urge to silence a constant need for stimuli. Be it sex, drugs, alcohol, what have you. If your brain can only be satisfied by a certain mix of released endorphines brought about by a certain activity, then you don't care what it takes to keep that activity going. Family, friends, emotional stability mean nothing once the need takes over.

[rednecksatyr]

Very interesting observations by all. Mother nature devised a method to insure that we breed and create more! This does not mean that all will use it in a compassionate and humane way.

I see it as a problem only if the urge is not controlled. I really like sex but it is not the dominant force in my life.

And to The lovely ladies that accomodate me when I yield to the basic urge to procreate I say thank you!

[BadWolf]

Promiscuity is not the same thing as sex addiction. The term sex addiction is overly used, but the malady does exist. Addiction comes in many forms. And while the specific method of expression may vary, addiction, in general terms, shares many commonalities amidst its different modus operandi.
Addiction is a three part disease - mental, physical and spiritual. The individual uses their substance/action of choice for its specific effect in an attempt to fill an inner void, run away from reality, heal their spiritual bankruptcy. Once engaged with their drug of choice a physical reaction occurs which incites craving in the user. They no longer have rational control of their actions, but are instead driven by craving to seek more of their drug/action. Once the physical phase has passed and they are no longer physically engaged in addiction the mental obsession takes over...the individual plans out their next "score", relives the past one(s)., etc.
It becomes a vicious cycle, repeating over and over - often despite great personal suffering and consequences as a result of their actions. For the sex addict the act is not about having sex, its pleasures and intimacy; but rather about a separate "high" the person feels...a high that is increasingly difficult to reach, requiring more use, more risks and more consequences.

[abdclub]

jf,
I am truly impressed - not just by your stamina (4 in 48 hrs is outstanding ... I haven't been able to that in a lot of years!), but by your hobby budget!! LOL

abdclub

[jfred]

Originally Posted by abdclub

jf, I am truly impressed - not just by your stamina (4 in 48 hrs is outstanding ... I haven't been able to that in a lot of years!), but by your hobby budget!! LOL

Lots of interesting feedback here. Thanks everyone.

abdclub, your comment was short but it is provocative. I'll be brief.

I've worked pretty hard (and, yes, spent some money) to learn how to have good sex. Good sex inspires me and makes me feel alive. Bad sex depresses me. Although I'm rarely called upon to satisfy 4 in 48 I know enough about my body and it's sexual responses and abilities that I can pull it off when the need arises, and none of the ladies will feel short-changed.

Sexual stamina is one of the benefits of age. Physical stamina makes sex better and, frankly, I consider that alone reason enough to get me out on the track.

My hobby budget reflects my overall budget, alas. Happily, my own sexual healing has made me a sooo much better lover than when I was looking at things the way BadWolf does (more on that later). To wit, only one of the ladies received compensation, in the form of barter. The others are just women who respond well to me.

Which reminds me (brevity now out the window) I sincerely believe that one of the essential elements of sexual healing is learning what women will make good sexual partners. It takes more than a pussy and a pulse! A consistently fine sex life is not (in my experience) found except in the company of women who are absolutely loving it. Not every every woman is gonna like me. Sexual healing for me has resulted in better sex and fewer partners. Isn't that what we all want?

I'll get back later. Right now one of the women in my life wants to go to lunch and she's bringing my grandchild with her.

[China Doll]

I think I'm going to drop out of this conversation for the moment. We all have a different definition of what a sex addiction is, and being a standard psychiatric definition purist, it's just going to make me mad. Happy holidays, everybody!

[jfred]

Originally Posted by _Jayne_

...YOU ASKING IF ANYONE OBJECTS TO ANYTHING YOU DO BLOWS MY MIND ... ACTAULLY.

...and I had JUST HAD CONVERSATION WITH SELF ABOUT YOU.. OUTLOUD.

Hi Jayne, I wasn't sure who "Jayne" was but I'd recognize your Flow of Consciousness style (minus the Flow ) anywhere. lol

I don't know how to say this, but the idea that my name comes up in your conversations with self is not exactly a peaceful one for me. Still it's good to hear from you.

I wasn't asking permission to be promiscuous, of course. I was simply wondering if anyone would automatically draw the conclusion that I was troubled or neurotic.

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

First, I think that it's absolute great that you're such a sexual animal...I have heard that in other countries, people's attitudes about sex isn't as screwed up as ours are. Maybe that is true and maybe it isn't.

Thanks for the thoughtful input, EW.

All animals are sexual, including those that are homosexual, bisexual, hermaphroditic and asexual http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour But as far as I know humans are the only animals that engage in moral debate and shame one another for their "aberrant" proclivities. A moral consciousness is essential to humaness, no question we'd be lost without it. But so much of the natural moral code (evolved over eons) has been co-opted by individuals and institutions that have (or had) motives well beyond individual sexual happiness and natural fulfillment.

Sex is power. Anyone or any institution that can tell me whom, when, how and for what reasons I am allowed to fuck has me by the balls, so to speak. Once that power is institutionalized, it's peanuts to coerce me into sacrificing my money (or my first born son) or even my life to promote my master's goals.

Originally Posted by FLWrite

That's the old, "boys will be boys" argument which historically doesn't seem to be effective with wives...

Hmm seems to me you're definition of "historically" doesn't extend very far...sure you didn't mean hysterically?

There are notable cultures (think Greeks and Romans) where "men will be men" was the gospel and no one questioned it.

Originally Posted by Txn5inThick

...every peron is entirely different.

...For decades that was the only emotional happiness I would feel. After therapy, now I hobby because it feels good, while still able to find happiness in other corners of life.

...If your brain can only be satisfied by a certain mix of released endorphines brought about by a certain activity, then you don't care what it takes to keep that activity going. Family, friends, emotional stability mean nothing once the need takes over.

Just a couple of notes:

Every person is also remarkably similar. If you study lots of them over a long period of time and in different cultures they aren't very hard to understand, particularly in broad strokes, which is what I'm talking about.

I'm glad that therapy improved your sex life, but are you saying you had a sex problem? Sounds to me like there was some emotional expansion that took place that enabled many activities to be pleasurable. Just because you found sex first and weren't particularly motivated to grow beyond that doesn't mean that sex was the problem, does it? I'd be interested to know what approach your therapist took. Religious? Addiction model?

If one's brain can only be satisfied by sexual endorphins he does indeed have a problem and might consult an endocrinologist or neurologist, but I imagine that is really rare. Obviously, it wasn't the case in your life

Originally Posted by rednecksatyr

...Mother nature devised a method to insure that we breed and create more! This does not mean that all will use it in a compassionate and humane way.

And to The lovely ladies that accomodate me when I yield to the basic urge to procreate I say thank you!

Pal, momma nature's approach to anything is "red of claw and tooth!" Compassion and humaneness are late late additions and get folded up pretty quickly when the chips are down.

Originally Posted by BadWolf

...Addiction is a three part disease - mental, physical and spiritual...It becomes a vicious cycle, repeating over and over - often despite great personal suffering and consequences as a result of their actions. For the sex addict the act is not about having sex, its pleasures and intimacy; but rather about a separate "high" the person feels...a high that is increasingly difficult to reach, requiring more use, more risks and more consequences.

Dude, you left "shame" out of your little sex cycle. You are using the religious moral model, just like they taught me in church. And what do you mean by spiritual, anyway?

There is truth in the cycle you describe, of course, and any destructive behavior needs attention. Identifying a cycle or sequence of events may have some therapeutic value in stopping or shortcutting destructive actions, but it can accomplish that and leave the individual a conflicted mess sexually.

But I now believe that you are neither bad nor much of a wolf.

Edit: China Doll, sorry to see you go. It is frustrating though, isn't it, to just agree on definitions. Unfortunately, it is those definitions and the critical presuppositions from which they sprang that keep folks thinking in the box about sex.

Sex research is the most underfunded super-important subject I'm aware of. (See http://www.amazon.com/Bonk-Curious-C.../dp/0393064646 for a good read on the matter. I know I know...standard psychiatric definitions provide a lot of security and make discussion easier. You are aware, aren't you, that those definitions, by and large, are the product of straight white men very much molded by their moral environment and/or the the interest in fund granting agencies to support their research.

Anyway, I don't mean to keep yapping as you leave. Peace.