Ignoring a Professional (work rant)

[Guest053011]

I've had a very frustrating week dealing with a client (related to my day job). This person has no prior experience in what I do. They come to me with a project, I concede to most suggestions they have which are pretty bad (they are paying me after all). However, there comes detail they want to see executed that I know is so AWFUL, I'd be humiliated to attach my name to it. I tell them I will not concede on this point, and we end up butting heads. I'm ready to drop the project if he persists - my work represents me, and if I let something truly awful onto the market, it makes me look bad. I'd sooner he take his money and leave than have a blemish on my portfolio.

I hear this complaint often from consultants. Clients pay a professional with years of experience in a certain field from 100 -300 dollars an hour for advice, then ignore everything the consultant tells them.

DO IT YOURSELF THEN!

Going on a date is so much more fun than this.

Rant over.

[discreetgent]

The customer is always right, except when they're not.

[atlcomedy]

Just like in this biz, consultants can choose their clients, although like this biz not all are fortunate to only work with great clients.

The one thing a consultant can never put at risk is their good reputation.

Then again some clients just don't get it. To the extent it won't kill your rep or violate your personal ethics, sometimes just being agreeable or doing it their way, even if they are paying for your expertise, is the best path for all involved.

This also speaks to the need for a good briefing prior to the start of the project. Do you understand all of the (often unwritten) organizational dynamics? Who the decision makers are? What the organizational capabilities/resources are? For example, I had one client come back to me midway thru a project and said, "I understand what you are getting at & I agree with you, but I don't think my guys can pull this off and based on their track record there is no way I can sell this to my board." Now I wished he'd been this candid two months ago....but at least we were able to salvage the situation.

[Sisyphus]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

I hear this complaint often from consultants. Clients pay a professional with years of experience in a certain field from 100 -300 dollars an hour for advice, then ignore everything the consultant tells them.

Yup...it happens all the time! Said it before & I'll say it again...

"No, thank you."

Are the three most empowering rules in the English language. I've returned retainers & ended my role on projects before. It's awkward...it sucks...it's hard on the wallet...BUT, if it's the right thing to do, that's what you do.

"Good luck! When you fuck this up...you know where to find me. It will cost you more to fix it than it will to do it right the first time."

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

Yup...it happens all the time! Said it before & I'll say it again...

"No, thank you."

Are the three most empowering rules in the English language. I've returned retainers & ended my role on projects before. It's awkward...it sucks...it's hard on the wallet...BUT, if it's the right thing to do, that's what you do.

"Good luck! When you fuck this up...you know where to find me. It will cost you more to fix it than it will to do it right the first time."

+1

[awl4knot]

If you butt heads with a client you are labelled a bitch/bastard who isn't responsive to client needs.

If you accede and the project fails it's because of your poor implementation and execution.

Worst yet, you accede and the project improbably succeeds. You then get to hear, "See, I told you this would work."

I just read an article of hints on how to deal with difficult clients. The best one was to learn the signs of Narcistic and Borderline Personality disorders and refuse to deal with these difficult souls. Remember the safe provider's mantra, "Screen, screen, screen."

[ClairJordan]

Do you use the social psychology of business based on the Myers-Briggs graph?
People have certain personalities (as you well know) and back up behavior which corrolates.

Analytical: back up behavior: to withdraw
Driver: to bully
Amiable: to go along
Expressive: to confront

When I get into one of those testy situations with business associates I stop and figure out which catagory they fall into and then handle them accordingly. It usually helps me defuse. I am sure you can find more info on line.

Personally, I can't imagine anyone trying to push you towards what you don't see as the right way to do something! Shame on anyone who under-estimates YOU, my dear Lauren...

From one of your biggest fans!

[Guest053011]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

Just like in this biz, consultants can choose their clients, although like this biz not all are fortunate to only work with great clients.

Oh so true, and it takes years to build up to a point where you can reject a client. Until you get to that point you just put up will all the aggravation.

However, even early in my career as a freelancer I learned to reject clientele. All too often they want the smallest quote possible, but as you work with them, they make requests and develop expectations that are not in proportion to the original quote provided, and seem to be stunned and betrayed when you point out "Listen I'm only getting paid X dollars, and your asking for something that will require much more work then I'm being paid for."

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

This also speaks to the need for a good briefing prior to the start of the project. Do you understand all of the (often unwritten) organizational dynamics?

You sure as hell nailed it on the head. I'm trying to get across the proper protocol for getting material ready for manufacturing, and it's been a migraine. I cleanly lay out what's needed, and instead of getting a point by point answers for all the specifications, I end up with a long paragraph of garble that doesn't give me anything I need - and is constantly requesting change while complaining that he wants to be ready to go into production YESTERDAY.

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

"Good luck! When you fuck this up...you know where to find me. It will cost you more to fix it than it will to do it right the first time."

At this point I want to say: "Good luck finding someone that will put up with you! I wouldn't help you fix it if you paid me!"

Originally Posted by awl4knot

If you butt heads with a client you are labelled a bitch/bastard who isn't responsive to client needs.

If you accede and the project fails it's because of your poor implementation and execution.

Worst yet, you accede and the project improbably succeeds. You then get to hear, "See, I told you this would work."

I just read an article of hints on how to deal with difficult clients. The best one was to learn the signs of Narcistic and Borderline Personality disorders and refuse to deal with these difficult souls. Remember the safe provider's mantra, "Screen, screen, screen."

All too true. If only I could ask clientele for references from previous employers before agreeing to take on their projects! I got this through a third party who provides me with a lot of business by word of mouth, so I can't really toss him until this one project is done without making someone else look bad. So I think I'll try and get through this, and refuse any future work from him.

Originally Posted by ClairJordan

Do you use the social psychology of business based on the Myers-Briggs graph?
People have certain personalities (as you well know) and back up behavior which corrolates.

Analytical: back up behavior: to withdraw
Driver: to bully
Amiable: to go along
Expressive: to confront

His category? Well I've classified him as a wanna-be creative genius without talent, who is going through some kind of mid life crisis desolation and has decided to try and succeed outside his square job by doing something that will make him feel creative and counter culture. I imagine him crying as he clings to self help books hoping someone can lay out a road map of fulfillment with fashionable terms because he can't think for himself. Whooo, glad I got that out of my system. Yeah... I feel better now

[Marcus Aurelius]

Do me.

[guest010613]

Lauren Darlin,

In years of consulting, I have always made a point of telling difficult clients "You paid me because I'm the expert, so let me do my job." Of course, I am an expressive driver, so that's conflict plus bullying (Claire has me pegged lol) but I really cannot afford to put my rep on the line for a project that comes in less than successfully. YMMV, I guess, but it has always been the best solution for me.

As to friends who referred these clients to me, I always tell them before I fire the client, and let them know why. Usually they understand and support the decision, and most have continued to send me clients. This is all just my experience, not advice (since I don't know the real dynamics of the sit, I would never make a recommendation!), but maybe it will help.

Hugs,
Tex

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

I cleanly lay out what's needed, and instead of getting a point by point answers for all the specifications, I end up with a long paragraph of garble that doesn't give me anything I need

So WTF is your client?

Originally Posted by topguntex

Lauren Darlin,

In years of consulting, I have always made a point of telling difficult clients "You paid me because I'm the expert, so let me do my job." Of course, I am an expressive driver, so that's conflict plus bullying (Claire has me pegged lol) but I really cannot afford to put my rep on the line for a project that comes in less than successfully. YMMV, I guess, but it has always been the best solution for me.

As to friends who referred these clients to me, I always tell them before I fire the client, and let them know why. Usually they understand and support the decision, and most have continued to send me clients. This is all just my experience, not advice (since I don't know the real dynamics of the sit, I would never make a recommendation!), but maybe it will help.

Hugs,
Tex

1) Without knowing what all the gents here do, I am not surprised so many of us have taken a run in consulting or some type professional services; congregate here and take the time to banter about provider frustrations and critique the "business model issues" of providing (when certainly there are more productive things we could be doing).

When you think about it a lot of the challenges we face - from finding clients to dealing with them to figuring out what to charge them - are the same ones many providers face.

2) Dealing with friends & referrals: My first rule is never introduce an asshole or someone of questionable ethics. Then I seperate my referrals into two categories. Friends or associates that I know but have never (recently) been in a position to vouch for their work (or the type of work I'm familiar with is not relevant); the second people whose work I am very familiar with and would vouch for without hesitation. I am very explicit in explaining to both parties how they are being introduced. The former might sound like, "Mary & I went to school together/Jim & I go the same club/I worked with Kim years ago when we were both at XYZ Corp....I think you might be able to help her but I'm not terribly familiar with her current venture." I have found this avoids a lot of misunderstandings down the road.

I am generous with my introductions, within the parameters above. I've found out at my relatively young age that the world is smaller than we think and very fluid. Introductions don't cost much*. People remember the effort and will tell there network about it (as appropriate). One of the best character traits to have is to be seen as the guy that will (try to) help others when he doesn't have to.

*caveat: if you say you are going to help someone, actually do it. Don't just say you'll try to help hoping to be seen as trying to do a favor (score points). There is a chance somebody will find out. Recent real life example: I have a business partner (Company A) that wants to do business with Company B. I have social friend (John) that is an officer at Company B. He says he'll talk to the appropriate executive (Tim) and see if a meeting can be brokered. I follow up with John and he gives me the, "Hey man I ran it by Tim like twice and it was a no go. Sorry man." Well, long story short I get in front of Tim via other means and of course John had never said boo to him about it.....:di r_bye1:

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by topguntex

In years of consulting, I have always made a point of telling difficult clients "You paid me because I'm the expert, so let me do my job." Of course, I am an expressive driver, so that's conflict plus bullying (Claire has me pegged lol) but I really cannot afford to put my rep on the line for a project that comes in less than successfully. YMMV, I guess, but it has always been the best solution for me.

As to friends who referred these clients to me, I always tell them before I fire the client, and let them know why. Usually they understand and support the decision, and most have continued to send me clients. This is all just my experience, not advice (since I don't know the real dynamics of the sit, I would never make a recommendation!), but maybe it will help.

A consultant that hasn't fired a few clients isn't doing their job.

[ClairJordan]

Can someone pls tell me how to quote the previous message correctly??

[pjorourke]

Under each post there are three or four buttons on the right. One of them says quote. If you hit it, a reply to thread box opens with the text from the message surrounded by the words {quote} and {/quote} (but in square brackets) This is what causes the text to be set off like your question below. You can also edit the text in the box, as I did to remove the word "correctly"

Originally Posted by ClairJordan

Can someone pls tell me how to quote the previous message??

You can type above or below the quoted text and you can cut and paste it into another message. There is also a multi-quote that picks up a number of other posts and then puts them all in a box when you finally hit Quote.

[charlestudor2005]

Damn, PJ, you just ruined one of my useful functions.