Packin' heat

[oleguy]

It's my right to carry since I have passed the conceal carry class and received the permit. I've been trained and will protect myself or my loved ones if necessary. Do you think the idiot thug with cheap handgun cares? Let him point it at me with me wondering what his intentions are and he will be down on the ground. I will do that if necessary. I will tell him to stop but only once if I feel for my own safety.

[bustyms.sasha]

Ive had providers who had guns in their cars an dim okay with that.
but seriously id be scared if he had it on him. :O

[Eccie Addict]

Someone points a gun at me, I won't be yelling "stop" someone will be down. All these rules....if someone points a firearm at me then the rules go out the window.

[caseytx]

Damn......All I (OP) asked was what the ladies thought of clients with concealed weapons. Did not intend to stir up a shitstorm about tactical training or proper terminology (heat-mags-clips).
And really wasn't looking to get preached at or talked down to by those who think they are some kind of authority on the issue, although I DID ask for comments from the men here.
I appreciate the interest and (most of) the comments and opinions....casey

[Eccie Addict]

It's still a pretty informative thread Casey

[bbkid]

My parole officer won't let me have a gun.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by texasjohn1965

there was a lot of concern about TRAINING and IDENTIFYING persons with a license.

Originally Posted by texasjohn1965

One of the DA's commented ..... just wear the button.
the procedures for officers to identify carriers

Did I misread the above.....

What is your agenda? Cherry-picking phrases ... let me repeat what I wrote in its entirety:

"As for passage, I had the "opportunity" to be awaiting the completiion of the first Texas Senate debate in an office at the capital outside the Senate chambers with two DA's (one rural and one metroarea) who I had inadvertently met there (knew them both) who wanted to visit with the same senator as I on the floor. It was interesting to say the least. But there was little concern discussed about gunfights breaking out around the State ... there was a lot of concern about TRAINING and IDENTIFYING persons with a license." Post at 4:03 p.m.

Now, as for all of this "training" through CHL classes the following posted statistical information is still good information today and used often today:


http://www.pointshooting.com/1asop9.htm

Now someone show me the CHL cirriculum, please, in which those issues are addressed. And here is "all" I asked:

"In "boot camp" or "competition" were you trained or judged on being "ambushed" by yourself in a 20 x 30 foot room in low light unexpectedly by some asshole pushing his way through the door while his "partner" was next to you or in close proximity so that you had at most a couple of seconds to evaluate and respond to the situation unexpectedly presented to you in a manner that does not injure or kill those collateral present who were either outside or next door (downstairs) even, who were non-threatening?"

It is somewhat "mind-boggling" (if not disturbing) that someone gets a CHL license and he or she thinks she is "ready" to confront the "idiot" with a handgun ... or even a knife .... pushing through a motel door or coming out of closet ....

and the response is ....

....... well it statistically will not happen that much ....

..... so why carry the damn thing in the first place?

"Wet panties"? or

"Hard dicks"?

As the coach!


And as for the military/competition experiences, here is the critical excerpt:


"COMBAT HITSMANSHIP

"It has been assumed that if a man can hit a target at 50 yards he can certainly do the same at three feet. That assumption is not borne out by the reports.

"An attempt was made to relate an Officer's ability to strike a target in a combat situation to his range qualification scores. After making over 200 such comparisons, no firm conclusion was reached. To this writer's mind, the study result establishes that there is indeed a disconnect between the two.

"If there was a connection between range marksmanship and combat hitsmanship, one would expect the combat hit potential percentages, to be well above the dismal ones reported. That is because the shooting distance was less than 20 feet in 75 percent of the 4000 encounters studied.

"The US Army recognizes that there is a disconnect. Its training manual, FM 23-35 Combat Training With Pistols & Revolvers (1988), calls for the use of Point Shooting for combat at less than 15 feet, and when firing at night. It does not call for using standard and traditional range marksmanship techniques."

http://www.pointshooting.com/1asop9.htm

_______________End of quoted material____________________

It's a dead horse, as far as I am concerned ....

.... qualification for a CHL has no connection to ...

instinctive, low-light, close quarters, confrontations when a "shoot-don't-shoot" decision must be made within 3 to 4 seconds, which is how long it takes a moving person to move 20 feet ... 7 paces..... when one's weapon is still secured .... an in an appointment hanging on the pants on a chair across the room?

I don't make this shit up, my friend, neither does NYPD.

All the huffing and puffing and chest beating ... does not impress me, and I certainly hope it does not impress any providers .....

[boardman]

Doesn't DA stand for double action?

[instfixer]

I would recommend the following book:

"In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob ISBN 978-0936279008
Your chances of being 'No Billed' by a Grand Jury increase dramatically if you read this thing.

[texasjohn1965]

I was going to take your words apart again, but here is the short version

Using your words against you is pretty simple, and quite effective...duh

I said that you and the DA have a motive for requiring extra training and identifying persons with a license. I don't believe for a second that it has to do with the protection of citizens. Theirs may be politicaly driven. I suspect yours is financial. I sure you will prove me wrong if I am incorrect.

The purpose of training in CHL classes (and the paperwork envolved) is not to make combat ready shooters, but to eliminate those who should not be allowed to carry a weapon.

NYPD is hardly a beacon of insight for qualified shooters.

I am not huffing/puffing/chest beating. I do enjoy pointing out the elitist attitude of those that consider themselves "professionals/bodygaurds". I still think you are shilling for a trainer, or are a trainer yourself. Your choice of words come right from a training manual.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by texasjohn1965

The purpose of training in CHL classes (and the paperwork envolved) is not to make combat ready shooters, but to eliminate those who should not be allowed to carry a weapon.

Originally Posted by texasjohn1965

Using your words against you is pretty simple, and quite effective...duh

"NYPD is hardly a beacon of insight for qualified shooters."

Did you skim over this statement:

"The US Army recognizes that there is a disconnect. Its training manual, FM 23-35 Combat Training With Pistols & Revolvers (1988), calls for the use of Point Shooting for combat at less than 15 feet, and when firing at night. It does not call for using standard and traditional range marksmanship techniques."

Perhaps, perhaps, neither is the U.S. Army? According to you.

If sitting in a motel room with a date while someone comes crashing or pushing through the door with a drawn handgun is not combat, then it is as close to it as most folks on here will experience in their lifetimes or want to experience at all.

That is what this thread is about ... taking a weapon to a gunfight!

Otherwsie its about trying to impress "the ladies" with hardware.

Do you actually believe that the "idiot" coming through the door is going to stop, apologize, and leave once knucklehead with the CHL flashes his "pistole" or yelps ... "I have my CHL!"

In the meantime, keep trying to convince the posters in here ...

that they do not need any more training than what is offered with their 12-hour-CHL application and 4 to 5 year 4-hour-renewals.

For the world (and John) ... I got no "$-dog" in this hunt.

Back to "THE" question:

"Question: How do you feel about a client who is trained and licensed to carry a hand gun bringing a concealed gun to a session?"

Here is the "training" of the thread-starter:

[texasjohn1965]

Do you live you life in 'condition one'?

Are you 'cocked and locked' every minute of the day?

Have you ever been "ambushed" by yourself in a 20 x 30 foot room in low light unexpectedly by some asshole pushing his way through the door while his "partner" was next to you or in close proximity so that you had at most a couple of seconds to evaluate and respond to the situation unexpectedly presented to you in a manner that does not injure or kill those collateral present who were either outside or next door (downstairs) even, who were non-threatening?


I refuse to live my life in fear. I will take precautions. I will arm myself when I feel needed. I will avoid confrontation when possible. I will kill when required.


Point shooting is a great idea at close distance. I am not debating shooting techniques. I recommend that everyone get as much training as they can, but I will not mandate training, as it is an exclusionary technique.


"taking a weapon to a gunfight"...... do you go looking for gunfights? remind me to avoid being in your company....ever.


"impress the ladies with hardware"...... no one has ever seen my "hardware" when I carry.

"the idiot" was the one who gave his gun away, then never saw the setup happening. Live is cruel, and if you are going to be stupid, you better be tough.

I will repeat it again, get as much training as you can afford. I will not mandate a training level beyond the basic proficiency test required during the CHL process.

For someone who has no $ in this, you push high level (expensive) training like a pro.

and to answer the original question of this thread....
no one should ever know your carrying, until the need to use it. I don't care if I'm about to bump uglies with someone, they wont know what I have until I need to use it.

[oilfieldscum]

Man this is starting to look like sandbox material to me.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by texasjohn1965

Have you ever been "ambushed" by yourself in a 20 x 30 foot room in low light unexpectedly by some asshole pushing his way through the door while his "partner" was next to you or in close proximity so that you had at most a couple of seconds to evaluate and respond to the situation unexpectedly presented to you in a manner that does not injure or kill those collateral present who were either outside or next door (downstairs) even, who were non-threatening?



Point shooting is a great idea at close distance. I am not debating shooting techniques. I recommend that everyone get as much training as they can, but I will not mandate training, as it is an exclusionary technique.




I will repeat it again, get as much training as you can afford. I will not mandate a training level beyond the basic proficiency test required during the CHL process.

OilField ... it gets that way when it gets personal ... and this topic is not.

http://www.eccie.net/search.php?searchid=3628116

http://www.eccie.net/search.php?searchid=3628128

There are repeated threads started and threads in which "violence" by hobbyists and providers' "companions" have been addressed and/or disclosed with varying responses, including but not limited to, the brandishing of handguns and in many, if not all, of those threads eventually someone starts talking trash about "carrying a piece" ... "carrying heat" ... blowing someone's ass away ... on and on.

Someone started this thread and I made a comment, which was invited, and then it gets personal with insulting remarks about my stability and agenda because I believe that someone ought not to engage in armed confrontations until they are trained to do so.

My comments were not directed to "John's" theme ... and for him to twist and cherry-pick my words, while engaging in personal attacks, IS consistent with SandBox dialogue. But he does have his own agenda.

John, I have sufficient personal experiences and training to comprehend the seriousness of rapidly progressing circumstances in close proximity when weapons are or may be involved and to be aware of the necessity for sufficient training and skills to properly and adequately respond to the unfolding conditions .... as has been described NUMEROUS times on this board and a past board. That answers your question as far as I am concerned, and I do not really care what your opinion is about my "status".

When one "carries" a handgun to a session I can think of only 2 reasons for doing so ..... defense in response to a threat of "deadly force" as defined by the Texas Penal Code and the case law interpreting the same .... or to impress the provider. You pick your reason.


And John, thank you for at least acknowledging the desireability of additional training beyond the basic qualifications for a CHL, which is ALL I have been repeatedly expressing as my opinion. "Mandate" is your word, not mine, and with your attitude here is your reminder "to avoid being in" my "company....ever." What is your agenda, anyway?

[tikkler33]

While this thread hasn't had many replies to the original question, it has been extremely interesting to see the various opinions, some informed and some otherwise, on this subject.
God made man, Col. Colt made them equal.