Should I cheat, file for divorce, or lead a life devoid of blow jobs?

[essence]

Be careful with your logic!

Because morality and law 'have nothing to do with one another' and you can find examples where the law is an ass or conflicts with morality, and what is legal, or what is moral, changes over time, it does not mean that acts which are not legal are necessarily moral!

My actions with my lady friends are all perfectly legal, but even I would say they are not completely moral. But I can live with it, it lets me carry on my normal life with equanimity and a smile on my face. What is so immoral about being generous and spreading the love?

[SlowHand49]

To the OP: Not sure what you've decided or if you have, but a life devoid of BJs ain't worth livin', IMHO . . .

And if your wife doesn't understand your problem, just show her this post . . .

(Edit: Just re-read this, and to be clear, I am NOT suggesting ending it all . . . just pursuing a life that does provide for your needs . . . )

[Sensia]

Your not having a relationship with any of the eccie women. This is a business. It's a service.. and thats all. In my opinion it is only cheating if you develop a personal and intimate relationship with another woman. Sex is physical, and in my book is not the cheating that you feel it is. That is just my take on this. I lived with a man for 7 years, and he knew what I did for a living and understood that it was just my job. Albeit your wife might not see it that way. Have you tried to communicate with your wife about what you want out of your sex life with her? Sometimes talking about it and getting the communication going can help, maybe make her realize she needs to see you have certain likes as well and needs to reciprocate.

[pyramider]

Get the marriage counselor. After the counselor listens, they will tell you what you probably already know. Then its time to make big boy decisions.

[srvfin]

Dude..... Run.... It will not get any better..... Was with my second ex for 7 years and only 2 BJ's...... TWO BLOW JOBS..... Then after our second daughter basically no sex at all..... She would hint at it, tease about it and promise, but never nothing..... Then to top it off when I finally had enough and we split I found out she had been fucking some other guy for about 6 months.....

So, IMHO, if you are not getting what you feel you need to get out of the sexual relationship, then leave because ot probably isn't going to get any better.... What I have deduced in my half century on this earth about women is that they either are highly sexual, or not.....

[thx]

You should talk to a lawyer. If I remember correctly, in Texas, you don't have community property until you have been married 5 years.

[Camille]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

About 3-4 years after marriage wife #1 hit a sexual malaise. She was uninterested in sex to speak of and when it happened it wasn't very good. In fact she made me feel like she was so unwilling that the whole idea of sex with her was a turnoff so I stopped approaching. Meanwhile, I was an utterly exemplary husband. The girl didn't even have to pump her own gas, shop for groceries or go without anything.

Now, HERE is a thing about evolutionary sexual behaviors you might not know.

My wife's malaise was essentially because she saw me as conquored territory and completely unavailable to other females. As there was no competition for my affection, she acted like any legally protected monopoly by delivering the least on meeting my needs while demanding the most payment.

Now, I never cheated on her. But I shook things up in a few ways to make it really clear to her that on any given day I COULD get laid elsewhere. And I learned how to do it by reading an article in a women's magazine about how to tell if your hubby is having an affair.

I'm a pretty non-superficial person. Sort of a scientist type. I never cared about wardrbe and stuff. So I had a lady come help me pick out a new wardrobe that would be seen as more attractive. (Wives sometimes dress their husbands frumpily.) The wife wanted to know why I was doing it, and I just said I needed to dress for success.

Meanwhile, I adopted the TRAPPINGS of an affair. Not an actual affair, but the trappings. I kept a little box with my spare tire that included a couple of different colors of lipstick and a couple of really sexy-smelling perfumes. Every so often then there would be the telltale smudge of lipstick or a faint hint of perfume about me. She'd ask what it was, and I'd just say I had hugged some innocuous older lady at work or something.

I also bought a couple of standard female clothing items -- scarfs for example.

When she'd get in my car to go somewhere with me, sometimes there would be a nice lady's scarf or hat in the backseat. Or there would be a pack of virginia slims in the console. I'd just explain that the receptionist had needed a ride to the post office.

I made a point of having to work late once in a while, and not answering my phone until just before I left for home. (I was in my boss's office and couldn't answer.)

Then I arranged for a confederate to make the classic "hang-up" phone call once every couple of weeks. The phone would ring, she'd answer, and then it would go "click."

Perhaps the coup de grace was the fact that I've never had a shortage of actual affair invitations. I had always just politely declined and never mentioned them to my wife as I didn't want her to feel insecure. But now I wanted her to feel insecure; so I would share them with her and ask her advice on how to handle them so that everything would still go smoothly with the ladies in a work context etc. Some ladies would issue their invitations to lunch, etc. via email, so I'd bring them to her.

Meanwhile, I absolutely ignored her sexually. When she started to make tentative invitations I pretended not to notice. When she made more overt invitations I was either tired or had a headache. But, knowing the propensity of men having affairs to overcompensate, I made sure to be extra nice to her in all other respects.

Pretty soon she was absolutely out of her mind. The key here is there was no ACTUAL affair; because she turned over everything looking for it. She watched bank accounts, phone records -- everything -- looking for the clues. If there had been an actual affair no way could it have escaped her scrutiny by now.

Eventually it got to the point where she would practically rip my clothes off when I walked in the door. Really. She would fuck me every day before I left for work and every day when I got home. Sometimes she'd nail me again at bed time. Her goal was to make sure I was so sexually sated that other invitations wouldn't look attractive.

She also started meeting me for lunch to give me a quickie BJ every so often.

Later on we divorced for other reasons; but the sex problem was most assuredly solved.

Generally, I wouldn't manipulate a woman that way. But she was quite manipulative in her own ways, which led me to consider such an approach.

My point here is simply that the evolutionary drives that work against you can also be made to work for you by altering certain aspects of the environment.

So I've given you three different approaches to getting blown at home.

1. Figure out which basic emotional needs of hers aren't being met, and meet them.
2. Use therapy to lead her to comprehend that good sex is in her own self-interest
3. Use knowledge of evolutionary drives to manipulate the shit out of her.

Of course, other options exist. Just giving these for consideration.

I like 1 and 2...but I respectfully intently dislike number 3. From a females POV here is why....

You made it into a competition. Once you do that, the potential for drama escalates and the whole relationship changes. As cliche as it sounds, a relationship should be teamwork..it should NEVER become a competition. I'v seen some fairly inncocous things start out with a little provocation here and there and escalate not just into ugly situations but also dangerous ones. The key here is to note that you CANNOT control how someone reacts to provocation. You might take a guess, you might consider how most would..but provocation stirs some deeply emotionally charged emotions..and they can be very dangerous. I really would advise against anyone playing games like that..even if their partner is a complete ass. Women do NOT respond well or logically to provocation. Let's not forget that provocation can be introdiced as a defense if things go that far..and they often do..and from starting from nothing major at all. Go the divorce route before going that one...
Not to be an ass Laurentius, but you said yourself that your wife was manipulative..and she demonstrated that by competing back. The OP has not suggested that his wife is the same and would (therefore) react the same. He infact said she was very hurt when he came clean. She didn't seek revenge, she didn't try and manipulate him. I say "no" strongly and loudly, especially in this instance. Implosion can be a lot messier to deal with than explosion.

Camille

[Guest031811]

OP,

Check your PMs...

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Camille

I like 1 and 2...but I respectfully intently dislike number 3. From a females POV here is why....

You made it into a competition. Once you do that, the potential for drama escalates and the whole relationship changes. As cliche as it sounds, a relationship should be teamwork..it should NEVER become a competition. I'v seen some fairly inncocous things start out with a little provocation here and there and escalate not just into ugly situations but also dangerous ones. The key here is to note that you CANNOT control how someone reacts to provocation. You might take a guess, you might consider how most would..but provocation stirs some deeply emotionally charged emotions..and they can be very dangerous. I really would advise against anyone playing games like that..even if their partner is a complete ass. Women do NOT respond well or logically to provocation. Let's not forget that provocation can be introdiced as a defense if things go that far..and they often do..and from starting from nothing major at all. Go the divorce route before going that one...
Not to be an ass Laurentius, but you said yourself that your wife was manipulative..and she demonstrated that by competing back. The OP has not suggested that his wife is the same and would (therefore) react the same. He infact said she was very hurt when he came clean. She didn't seek revenge, she didn't try and manipulate him. I say "no" strongly and loudly, especially in this instance. Implosion can be a lot messier to deal with than explosion.

Camille

1. I agree a marriage relationship should be teamwork. But often it is not. I may be so originally, but grows out of the teamwork mold.
2. I agree it SHOULD never be competition. But what should be and what is are two different things.
3. I DISAGREE that you CANNOT control how someone responds to provocation. Married couples (and SOs) do this all the time. It's called pushing each other's buttons. One sees this a lot in relationships just prior to divorce and during the divorce process. It exists on a day-to-day in highly contentious marriages that don't seem to be headed towards splitsville.
4. Women may not respond well to provocation, but neither do men. Whereas women may respond illogically, men tend to target their responses (which may be why you are so upset at L's actions).

In the end, C, none of us human beings likes to think we can be manipulated, especially by the opposite sex. For men, it's being pussy-whipped. For women, it's being totally dependent on a man.

Despite having experienced some pretty remarkable women (mother, SO, in laws and co-workers) I still have this gut reaction when it comes to women in general. It may be a result of the war of the sexes, or maybe the result of urban myths, but the gut reaction is not to trust women and assume any conduct on the part of a woman has a devious intent. It's hard to take women at face value when underneath you think they are devious.

And women don't do their cause any favors. It is common knowledge that women engage in gossip, back-stabbing and back-biting amongst themselves. And this is a quality that is so well known, it has made it into mainstream TV & movies.

So, C, I generally have to disagree with your post.

[Camille]

Charles:

I never said it wasn't (sadly) commonplace. I said the potential for disaster is there. That is what bothers me...it's dangerous. I also never said women do not target their responses either...you are putting words in my mouth. It doesnt matter who targets who Charles...provocation and reaction are what they. It's a dangerous game and one to stay away from.

Camille

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Camille

Charles:

I never said it wasn't (sadly) commonplace. I said the potential for disaster is there. That is what bothers me...it's dangerous. I also never said women do not target their responses either...you are putting words in my mouth. It doesnt matter who targets who Charles...provocation and reaction are what they. It's a dangerous game and one to stay away from.

Camille

Sorry if I misunderstood your post.

[nuglet]

Originally Posted by thx

You should talk to a lawyer. If I remember correctly, in Texas, you don't have community property until you have been married 5 years.

yeah, keep telling yourself that. No such thing in Texas.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by thx

You should talk to a lawyer. If I remember correctly, in Texas, you don't have community property until you have been married 5 years.

I think you need to go back and take family law again. You are badly mistaken. With a few exceptions (like capital gains, O&G royalties from separate property, etc.), any income earned in the marriage is community property. And there are very easy ways to loose the separate property status of these assets.

[Laurentius]

Originally Posted by Camille

I like 1 and 2...but I respectfully intently dislike number 3. From a females POV here is why....

You made it into a competition. Once you do that, the potential for drama escalates and the whole relationship changes. As cliche as it sounds, a relationship should be teamwork..it should NEVER become a competition. I'v seen some fairly inncocous things start out with a little provocation here and there and escalate not just into ugly situations but also dangerous ones. The key here is to note that you CANNOT control how someone reacts to provocation. You might take a guess, you might consider how most would..but provocation stirs some deeply emotionally charged emotions..and they can be very dangerous. I really would advise against anyone playing games like that..even if their partner is a complete ass. Women do NOT respond well or logically to provocation. Let's not forget that provocation can be introdiced as a defense if things go that far..and they often do..and from starting from nothing major at all. Go the divorce route before going that one...
Not to be an ass Laurentius, but you said yourself that your wife was manipulative..and she demonstrated that by competing back. The OP has not suggested that his wife is the same and would (therefore) react the same. He infact said she was very hurt when he came clean. She didn't seek revenge, she didn't try and manipulate him. I say "no" strongly and loudly, especially in this instance. Implosion can be a lot messier to deal with than explosion.

Camille

In general, I agree with you. My first wife was the only case ever where I engaged in serious manipulation. Of course, I learned that from a real pro at manipulation: her.

I don't think you are being an ass at all. In the OP's specific case, in subsequent posts in this thread, I specifically advocated favoring other approaches over manipulation.

In essence, you and I agree; so if I thought you were an ass ... I'd be thinking the same of myself. LOL

Relationships SHOULD be teamwork, where each contributes to the other in an upward spiral of wellbeing and a rising tide that lifts all boats. What benefits her also benefits me simply by helping her, etc.

Unfortunately, in the case of my first wife, there was no team. There are times when a partner can lift you up, make you better, make you more than you would otherwise be. That is the ideal. The situation with my first wife was just the opposite, and I am glad that I escaped it.

[pyramider]

Originally Posted by nuglet

yeah, keep telling yourself that. No such thing in Texas.

Feel like Dorothy in Oz, it won't be real . . . painful . . .