I can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet

[PSD]

Originally Posted by SkylarCruzWantsYou

I think this explains everything I want to say perfectly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0

"They came first for our building permits"

Thank you, Skylar.

[ThrillBill88]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Guess I'm going to take it up a notch.

By writing something really bizarre?

Third, the true Muslim faith is a very peaceful religion.

That is truly one of the dumbest things I've ever read. The Koran teaches that anyone who is not a Muslim should be killed. And if you kill them, you have a special place in Heaven. It also teaches that daughters who have sex before marriage are to be stoned. It also teaches that the goal of Islam is to rid the world of all infidels (charles, that means anybody who is not a muslim). Maybe I don't understand the definition of peaceful. Charles, please enlighten me.

Fourth, I believe their Freedom of Religion under the US Constitution allows them to build a mosque on their privately-owned land and consecrate it and make it holy.

Don't like it, but I agree.

Fifth, in the great Christian tradition, we should love our enemies. As Martin Luther King Jr. said:

I agree, love our enemies.....but be prepared to defend yourself against them.

[guest012511]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Your a class act Hanna and might I add, that's a well written blog that I actually enjoyed perusing. Intelligent writing <-hot.

Thanks Sa_artman...!

Originally Posted by pjorourke

One of Jon's funnier bits.

Yes darlin', one of many indeed.

Originally Posted by SkylarCruzWantsYou

I think this explains everything I want to say perfectly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0

Very clear and precise take on the Park 51 ordeal. I hope many in this community view this Olbermann link.
One of many valid and compelling points that I think Mr. Olbermann makes begins at the 8:35 point.


Be Kind To One Another.


Cheers,
HDNY

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Historically, it is the SAME God who is worshiped by all three religions. There is no denying the historical fact.


However, historically, it is the same God, and that's a fact.

i find it curious that you seemingly dont accept the Bible as truth yet you claim historically it is the same God. i really cant follow your two statements that "historically" it is the same God.

the only history of Abraham, Sarah, Issac, Ishmael, Joseph is in the Bible, or if Jewish,more precisely, the Septuagint.

now i would submit that the God of Abraham, Issac and Joseph, and perhaps even Ishmael, although the Bible is silent as to his acceptance of Abraham's God, was renounced by Muhammad thousands of years after Abraham and in place another God was developed, using the Bible as base material, but with changes and much new material. The claim of following Abraham's God is made, while the Gods arent the same. This was done, not by scholarship or based on any evidentiary material, but claimed by revelation.

I think a more correct statement would be that a root can be traced to Abraham historically by all three (assuming one accepts the history in the Bible), but not to Abraham's God.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

the only history of Abraham, Sarah, Issac, Ishmael, Joseph is in the Bible, or if Jewish,more precisely, the Septuagint.

Wrong again. There are numerous mentions of Abraham in the Qur'an.

Abrahams's attributes: 2:124, 11:75–123, 16:120

• Ibrahim's: 2:130, 4:125, 6:83–84, 6:161, 9:114, 11:74, 12:6, 16:120, 19:41, 19:47, 21:51, 26:83–85, 29:27, 37:84, 37:88, 37:104, 37:109–111, 37:113, 38:45–47, 43:28, 53:37, 57:26, 60:4
• Allah tried Ibrahim: 2:124, 37:102
• Ibrahim's preaching: 2:130–231, 2:135–136, 2:140, 3:67–68, 3:84, 3:95, 4:125, 4:163, 6:74, 6:76–81, 6:83, 6:161, 14:35–37, 14:40, 21:52, 21:54, 21:56–57, 21:67, 22:26, 22:78, 26:69–73, 26:75, 26:78–80, 26:87, 29:16–17, 29:25, 37:83, 37:85–87,37:89, 37:91, 37:92, 37:93, 37:94–96, 43:26–28, 60:4
• Development of Ka'bah: 2:127
• Ibrahim's pilgrimage: 2:128, 22:27
• Ibrahim as Allah's friend: 4:125
• Punishment to Ibrahim's people: 9:70
• Moving to Syam: 21:71, 29:26
• Ibrahim, Hajar, and Ismail: 14:37, 37:101
• Dreaming of resurrecting a dead body: 2:260
• Arguing Namrud: 2:258
• Ibrahim and his father
  • Ibrahim preached to his father: 6:74, 19:42–45, 21:52, 26:70, 37:85, 43:26
  • His father's idolatry: 6:74, 26:71
  • Ibrahim asked forgiveness for his father: 14:41, 19:47, 60:4
  • Arguing with the people: 21:62–63, 21:65–66
  • Ibrahim moved away from the people: 19:48–49, 29:26, 37:99, 43:26, 60:4
  • Ibrahim's warnings for the idols: 21:57–58, 21:60, 37:93
  • Thrown into the fire: 21:68, 29:24, 37:97
  • Saved from the fire: 21:69–70, 29:24, 37:98
• Delightful news about Ishaq and Yaqub: 6:84, 11:69, 11:71–72, 14:39, 15:53, 15:54–55, 21:72, 29:27, 37:112, 51:28–30
• Dreaming of Is'haq's slaughter: 37:102–103

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Wrong again. There are numerous mentions of Abraham in the Qur'an.









Abrahams's attributes: 2:124, 11:75–123, 16:120

• Ibrahim's: 2:130, 4:125, 6:83–84, 6:161, 9:114, 11:74, 12:6, 16:120, 19:41, 19:47, 21:51, 26:83–85, 29:27, 37:84, 37:88, 37:104, 37:109–111, 37:113, 38:45–47, 43:28, 53:37, 57:26, 60:4
• Allah tried Ibrahim: 2:124, 37:102
• Ibrahim's preaching: 2:130–231, 2:135–136, 2:140, 3:67–68, 3:84, 3:95, 4:125, 4:163, 6:74, 6:76–81, 6:83, 6:161, 14:35–37, 14:40, 21:52, 21:54, 21:56–57, 21:67, 22:26, 22:78, 26:69–73, 26:75, 26:78–80, 26:87, 29:16–17, 29:25, 37:83, 37:85–87,37:89, 37:91, 37:92, 37:93, 37:94–96, 43:26–28, 60:4
• Development of Ka'bah: 2:127
• Ibrahim's pilgrimage: 2:128, 22:27
• Ibrahim as Allah's friend: 4:125
• Punishment to Ibrahim's people: 9:70
• Moving to Syam: 21:71, 29:26
• Ibrahim, Hajar, and Ismail: 14:37, 37:101
• Dreaming of resurrecting a dead body: 2:260
• Arguing Namrud: 2:258
• Ibrahim and his father
  • Ibrahim preached to his father: 6:74, 19:42–45, 21:52, 26:70, 37:85, 43:26
  • His father's idolatry: 6:74, 26:71
  • Ibrahim asked forgiveness for his father: 14:41, 19:47, 60:4
  • Arguing with the people: 21:62–63, 21:65–66
  • Ibrahim moved away from the people: 19:48–49, 29:26, 37:99, 43:26, 60:4
  • Ibrahim's warnings for the idols: 21:57–58, 21:60, 37:93
  • Thrown into the fire: 21:68, 29:24, 37:97
  • Saved from the fire: 21:69–70, 29:24, 37:98
• Delightful news about Ishaq and Yaqub: 6:84, 11:69, 11:71–72, 14:39, 15:53, 15:54–55, 21:72, 29:27, 37:112, 51:28–30
• Dreaming of Is'haq's slaughter: 37:102–103

much later and discussed above

the mentions in the Qur'an some thousands of years after the fact is similar to mentioning Abraham here...not quite the solid base of historicity one should require

i was addressing Charles' "historical" comment...not a mention of Abraham in every book written down through all mankind's existence, but the earliest available document and the basis for any understanding of Abraham at all, save by faith.

by the way... from where is your "again" comment stemming? seems rather misplaced and without a basis precedent

[..]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

Abraham's God, was renounced by Muhammad thousands of years after Abraham and in place another God was developed, using the Bible as base material, but with changes and much new material.

no, no other God was created, only how God is correctly worshipped was changed by Muhammad.

Even if you talk to super-radical islamists you will hear that God is the same but Jews and Christians worship him wrongly so God will punish them.

[Guest050715-1]

The youtube.com link to me is sensationalism. It is of the same ilk as l Rush Limbaugh / Glen Beck’s nonsense. It isn’t religion! It’s politics! The mosque / community center isn’t “minor” as he calls it. It’s a $100 million dollar project. WHERE is all that money coming for this? Is it from passing the plate? I’ll bet not. I’ll bet it is coming from wherever the working class fellow that bought the property got the money from. To me it just doesn’t sound like a few fellows wanting to come together to worship and share culture.

Basketball courts, cooking schools? Not that’s a reasonable skirt to hide behind, but if you’ve got nothing………….. We have mega-churches here in Houston too. I don’t have any great fondness for them either.

The Spanish warred with the Moors because they were occupying Spain.

We aren’t defending democracy for the people of Iraq! We’re not fighting for freedom; we’re fighting for oil! I jus stopped listening after that.

Yes, they have the RIGHT to build their worship / community center; they just shouldn’t. No one said they didn’t have the right. No one is interning Muslims for heaven's sake.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

The mosque / community center isn’t “minor” as he calls it. It’s a $100 million dollar project. WHERE is all that money coming for this? Is it from passing the plate? I’ll bet not.

Probably from the Hamas arm of the Democratic Party. You know Caliphate Obama gave them a billion? Oh yeah, it was supposedly to 'The People of Gaza' but its intercepted by Hamas to be done with as they please.''

U.S. to Give $900 Million in Gaza Aid, Officials Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/24/wa...on/24gaza.html

Caliphate O also sent the 'Victory Mosque' founder Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf on a trip to the Middle East funded by the US taxpayer...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/feds_funding_zero_imam_mideast _trip_OTq9dmoHpxbaKvJbB4VLGM

Yeah...blame it on the Tea Party....

[AdventureAdams]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

The youtube.com link to me is sensationalism. It is of the same ilk as l Rush Limbaugh / Glen Beck’s nonsense. It isn’t religion! It’s politics! The mosque / community center isn’t “minor” as he calls it. It’s a $100 million dollar project. WHERE is all that money coming for this? Is it from passing the plate? I’ll bet not. I’ll bet it is coming from wherever the working class fellow that bought the property got the money from. To me it just doesn’t sound like a few fellows wanting to come together to worship and share culture.

Basketball courts, cooking schools? Not that’s a reasonable skirt to hide behind, but if you’ve got nothing………….. We have mega-churches here in Houston too. I don’t have any great fondness for them either.

The Spanish warred with the Moors because they were occupying Spain.

We aren’t defending democracy for the people of Iraq! We’re not fighting for freedom; we’re fighting for oil! I jus stopped listening after that.

Yes, they have the RIGHT to build their worship / community center; they just shouldn’t. No one said they didn’t have the right. No one is interning Muslims for heaven's sake.

Just because they shouldn't doesn't mean that they have to listen to what other people have to say. If they bought this property with legitimate funds then there should be no reason why they shouldn't be able to build whatever pleases them in that location.

"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"

Also why should we care about a $100 million dollar project most likely funded by private investors or where the money came from in the first place. What about the thousands of garishly large Mega Churches (of many dominations not just Christians) that fill this country? Do we question them about were their funds come from or what they are supposedly "hiding"?

I feel as though America is going backwards when I hear this argument, do we really want to behave the same way our enemies are behaving. These terrorist that happen to be Islamic attacked our country because they did not agree with our American values, the same values that we are trying to deny a group of people who have done nothing wrong because we are afraid of the "Potential" dangers if there even are any.

That is what i think is the major problem, people think that another major attack will be planned in the depths of this building.

Oh yeah, and Olivia even though I may disagree with your views that still isn't stopping me from wanting to reach through the screen so I can nibble all over your fair and creamy complected tushy. Your pictures look so freaking yummy!!

Tis all

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Probably from the Hamas arm of the Democratic Party. You know Caliphate Obama gave them a billion? Oh yeah, it was supposedly to 'The People of Gaza' but its intercepted by Hamas to be done with as they please.''

U.S. to Give $900 Million in Gaza Aid, Officials Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/24/wa...on/24gaza.html

Bush did the same thing. 'Supposedly' intercepted? Did they hack the bank? You always work in the realm of make believe or just what Fox tells you?

Caliphate O also sent the 'Victory Mosque' founder Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf on a trip to the Middle East funded by the US taxpayer...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/feds_funding_zero_imam_mideast _trip_OTq9dmoHpxbaKvJbB4VLGM

Typical spin. The tax payers also fund the police, the overtime, and the garbage cleanup every time the tea baggers decide to hold a hand holding rally. Who do you think paid to keep the G Beck zombies in line in Washington? We the people.

[Jdriller]

All I can say is that almost all terroist attacks in our country and outside of our country have been made by or sponsered by radical Muslims. We were attacked on 9/11/01 and thousands died, thousands more were effected for life by the loss of loved ones and the trauma of the day. For "them" to build this mosque within the shadow of the twin towers is to say in the least, insensitive. The original building was damaged by debree from the disaster and condemed. And I believe even torn down because of that. Their leader is not the moderate Muslim he claims to be. He supports Muslim laws that are in direct contridiction to our laws, they prohibit women from the freedoms other Americans take for granted. In some Muslim countries women are not even allowed to drive a car, to talk to a man she is not related to. I have several Muslim women patients who I can not even be in the same room with, even with female assistants or staff to provide professional services. He wants the US to establish Muslim Law Courts that would allow Muslims to have laws and rights that are directly against our own laws. However, per the law of the land, they have the right to build it. And I don't want special laws passed that would infringe on our Constitutional Rights just to try and stop it. The US Government is already doing a thousand things to undermine our rights already. They (the Muslims) are crazy if the do it because emotions of 70% of Americans are against it. Some of that 70% will take action, possibly violent action to stop it or destroy it. I don't want it built and I don't want to see the reaction that will occur it they do. They have been offered deals to build elsewhere, they have been offered a buy out of the property with millions of dollars profit and have declined.

Therefore a peaceful remedy is offered to discourage them from building this mosque.
Next door on one side of the building, someone opens a butcher shop specializing in pork products, gourmet hams, bacon and sausage. On the other side, a strip joint with naked women, lots of liquor, and as much adult sex stuff as you can legally get away with. They should sell sex toys, and porno movies. Across the street open a gay bar with loud music as trashy as possible. The Muslims don't drink (at least not supposed to.) The Muslims stone to death gays (yeah right, they are "peacefull) They stone to death, or kill by other means even female family members who have sex outside of marraige or in some cases even for dating someone who is not a Muslim) Surround them with all the things they hate.

[oden]

"If they bought this property with legitimate funds then there should be no reason why they shouldn't be able to build whatever pleases them in that location."

Let's get this question answered first and then discuss the legitimacy and intent of their claim.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Jdriller

thousands more were effected for life by the loss of loved ones and the trauma of the day. For "them" to build this mosque within the shadow of the twin towers is to say in the least, insensitive. hate.

Thousands die every day in drinking related auto deaths....SHOULD WE BAN THE SALE OF BEER?


Or do we just try and prevent the irresponsible beer drinkers from drinking and driving?


Come on dude, you're wanting to throw the baby out with the bath water.


Bush sent this guy over when he was president, nobody on the right said a word about him being a radical. Why? Probably because he isn;t.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Bush+eman+mosque&sour ceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

You always work in the realm of make believe or just what Fox tells you?


Typical spin. The tax payers also fund the police, the overtime, and the garbage cleanup every time the tea baggers decide to hold a hand holding rally. Who do you think paid to keep the G Beck zombies in line in Washington? We the people.

Hate to break it to you, but I don't watch Glen Beck nor am I a member of the Tea Party. If I work in the realm of make believe, I at least back it up with sources...unlike your make believe. Did the taxpayers pay for the cleanup and police for The Million Man March or the Redskins game and what does that have that to do with sending an imam overseas to declare victory?


Saw the cover of the Daily Globe at the local supermarket. OK, its not a credible source...but its not FOX!