Question??

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by ..

Word!

filtered DNS? change to an unfiltered one.
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS

URL block lists? use an alternative hostname / URL
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Cover_Domains

advanced deep-packet inspection? use heavy crypto (SSH, IPSEC, OpenVPN, etc.)

etc.

Originally Posted by ..

This is total BS. sorry. you confuse BGP routing with DNS. DNS is hierarchical, but this has nothing to do with the routing.

OK, admittedly I don't know what any of that means. I've got to go into a meeting, but will look at the links in a little while to see if they bring me any closer to understanding the difficulties.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Interesting. As I had it explained to me once (admittedly it was back in the day when we called it the "world wide web" ), there was a central ring of servers, that were highly controlled. And the web was like hundreds of trees splintering off of the central ring, all the way down to your individual computer. So, that when you sent an address request of sorts, it travelled up that tree, maybe along different routes along the way, but ultimately back up to that central ring, before heading back down another tree towards the server that hosted the website I was seeking. Conceptually, in my head, I could see such a system, and frankly haven't thought much about it since. But such a system would lend itself to some degreee of control if one wanted to.

What you heard is mostly correct BUT it only applies to name resolution. So if you type in eccie.net, your server/ISP would send out a request to get the address for eccie.net. It might go all the way to the root servers for .net which would tell it to go and ask the query from NS1.WIREDTREE.COM or
NS2.WIREDTREE.COM which would then respond with 96.30.44.159
Other software would then route you to that address.

However, in terms of traffic coming in and out of the US that system is not what is used. Basically there are a number of very large trunks out there that bring data into the US ..... BUT there are also smaller feeds that come in as well and there is really nothing (lets assume for now a country we think of as a Western country), aside from money, to prevent anyone from getting a feed in from another country.

One more point: stopping the type of email MA references would be an even more difficult challenge, needle in a haystack at best. And people who spam like that ARE generally good enough at bypassing whatever gateways and filters might get put in.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I'm more interested in, (How can I get a do-over so I could get rich and meet Ansley when I was younger.) Any ideas?

[Guest112113-3]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

CT, you might want to leave the thinking to those with a thought. I've seen more depth in a mud puddle.

I've asked a question. If you don't have anything intelligent to answer, why not just let those who might answer?

Get real Rudyard, no way CT is going sit back, listen and learn, he thinks he knows it all. The only thing missing is intelligence. As a young one I was told to be "seen and not heard, listen you will learn", thou for many not practiced ..... but lets be nice to the Tudor, after all he deserves pity and sympathy for such a depressing broken person, life has treated him so badly. Thou I always thought life is what you make of it.

[Guest112113-3]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

I'm more interested in, (How can I get a do-over so I could get rich and meet Ansley when I was younger.) Any ideas?

Start with you imagination, next the computer, outlook and address to ansley (at) D&T.com and welcome with a smile and open arms. Amazing what happens with a little imagination.

[Marcus Aurelius]

D&T.com?

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

I'm more interested in, (How can I get a do-over so I could get rich and meet Ansley when I was younger.) Any ideas?

As for do-over for get rich, there's always the lottery.

But, as I understand it (I didn't know her back then), I believe the rubber band was wound pretty tight on the little lady a few years back. Now, she's the picture of refinement, with just enough spice to warm the tastebuds.

But trying to put a saddle on that filly back then, might have been an exciting ride. But only for the strong hearted. I think you'd have needed to be younger.

[Guest112113-3]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

D&T.com?

Fictional address....

Diamonds and Tuxedos

Originally Posted by Rudyard K
Now, she's the picture of refinement, with just enough spice to warm the tastebuds.

Whoo'es you talking about.....LOL

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

What you heard is mostly correct BUT it only applies to name resolution. So if you type in eccie.net, your server/ISP would send out a request to get the address for eccie.net. It might go all the way to the root servers for .net which would tell it to go and ask the query from NS1.WIREDTREE.COM or
NS2.WIREDTREE.COM which would then respond with 96.30.44.159
Other software would then route you to that address.

However, in terms of traffic coming in and out of the US that system is not what is used. Basically there are a number of very large trunks out there that bring data into the US ..... BUT there are also smaller feeds that come in as well and there is really nothing (lets assume for now a country we think of as a Western country), aside from money, to prevent anyone from getting a feed in from another country.

One more point: stopping the type of email MA references would be an even more difficult challenge, needle in a haystack at best. And people who spam like that ARE generally good enough at bypassing whatever gateways and filters might get put in.

Fair enough. I think the complexity is way over my head. It sounds like technologically, given our society the way we like to try and run things, it is not really doable. Much less how we would monitor the doing in a free society.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Reminds me of a movie I saw years ago. The Romans were going to throw a Viking into a pit full of hungry wolves. He asked for a weapon so he could die with honor. YeHaa!

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

MA's OMG thread reminds me of a question I have that maybe some of the more internet savvy people can answer.

Why can we not limit the access of these places that harbour such scams to US citizens? First, is it technologically possible?...and Second, is this some kind of free speech thing?...or Third, are there some bigger issues that I am not thinking about?

I guess my thought process is that the internet (whatever that really means) is not necessarily a right since it is, at least partially, provided via some kind of licenseing. My perception its that it is much like the FCC limiting radio and television transmissions.

It would just seem that it is technically possible to envelope the US, and isolate it from exterior access, and then grant such exterior access to worthy locals through some lind of limited conduit. If such local doesn't control its own citizens...then it does not have access to the US envelope. This would seem that it would help with viruses, credit card frauds, scams, etc.

I'm certain that my thoughts are too elementary, and I'm not trying to get off into some conservative versus liberal BS here. It just seems that it should be technically possible, and even though there may be some isolated issues that would need to be dealt with, the pros might outweigh the cons.

So, those of you who have some knowledge...fire away.

First off, this follows the assumption that we are only victims to outside hackers, spammers and fraudulent schemes. One of the largest spammers convicted recently was operating within the US. A majority of viruses, scams, etc do originate from outside US boundaries (is it because our kids aren't smart enough?), but many are propagated on a local level. It only takes one. Rather than closing ourselves in, I think educating the general public and bringing some of the old timers into the 21st Century is more feasible. A majority of viruses, scams, and the like can be avoided with a little common sense and research. Much like hobbying, don't play if your not going to take the time to learn the pitfalls or your destined to get burned.

On another note, while it theoretically is technologically feasible, the money required to sustain such a controlled system would be outrageous (avoiding the politics of big spending and govt growth there) and hackers are notoriously smarter then the ones fighting them. I think we would see censorship gone ape shit and if your scared of big brother (just surmising from previous posts) well then you better buckle up because they'll have an even greater reason to start monitoring everything. No thank you.

[Rudyard K]

First, it was simply a question. It was something I wanted to know about so I asked. DG seemed to take it as such and addressed some of the larger technical issues in a manner that even I can understand. My conclusion? While it may be theoretically possible it is probably not technically feasible in any cost benefit analysis for Americans.

Secondly,

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

First off, this follows the assumption that we are only victims to outside hackers, spammers and fraudulent schemes. One of the largest spammers convicted recently was operating within the US. A majority of viruses, scams, etc do originate from outside US boundaries (is it because our kids aren't smart enough?), but many are propagated on a local level. It only takes one.

I never claimed that "we are only victims to outside hackers". But I did assume, and it appears you also believe it to be the case, that most came from outside of US sources. As such, plugging the biggest holes in the dike is the best place to start stopping the leaks. Just because we cannot solve all the ills of the world does not mean we can not discuss how to solve some of them...and in my opinion, let's solve the largest ones first.

Third,

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Rather than closing ourselves in, I think educating the general public and bringing some of the old timers into the 21st Century is more feasible. A majority of viruses, scams, and the like can be avoided with a little common sense and research. Much like hobbying, don't play if your not going to take the time to learn the pitfalls or your destined to get burned.

Wow!! This sounds a lot like a belief that we need to all take personal responsibility for our own actions. Are you getting conservative on me?

Forth,

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

On another note, while it theoretically is technologically feasible, the money required to sustain such a controlled system would be outrageous (avoiding the politics of big spending and govt growth there) and hackers are notoriously smarter then the ones fighting them.

Now fiscal responsibility! I think you're finally coming around here Artman.

Fifth,

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

I think we would see censorship gone ape shit and if your scared of big brother (just surmising from previous posts) well then you better buckle up because they'll have an even greater reason to start monitoring everything. No thank you.

I think it is prudent to think about the ramifications of our actions. In other words, Where might an intitial action take us as we move on down the road? But I do think it is interesting that some only apply that thought process to some things. Big Brother might be unleashed so we shouldn't loosen his leash. But if abuses might occur related to universal healthcare there is no discussion about the potential abuses. The Arizona law might mean some abuses to hispanic appearing citizens. But we don't talk about the abuses that might occur to US citizens due to the fact that there are millions of illegal aliens in our midst.

I don't mind talk about what might occur, and I don't mind talking about what has occured. I just don't like mixing the two concepts when discussing different issues.

I am very much an America first type guy. We, as Americans, can argue among ourselves about what we should each be doing for, or to, each other. But I am always for an American over any other citizen of any other nation. Kind of like my brothers and sisters...I'll fight with them tooth and nail. But let some neighbor try to jump them and I'll come down on that neighbor like a ton of bricks.

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

While it may be theoretically possible it is probably not technically feasible in any cost benefit analysis for Americans.

Well, I think that's what I was saying. Maybe I need to learn to be more direct. The question begged for comment and I was trying to keep it as 'political' free as possible.

I never claimed that "we are only victims to outside hackers". But I did assume, and it appears you also believe it to be the case, that most came from outside of US sources. As such, plugging the biggest holes in the dike is the best place to start stopping the leaks. Just because we cannot solve all the ills of the world does not mean we can not discuss how to solve some of them...and in my opinion, let's solve the largest ones first.

I'm not following your tie into ills of the world and outside hackers, but to avoid any misconstrued intent, it's a common assumption about spam and viruses. Globalization is not going anywhere and as long as companies here make billions off countries and their growing net infrastructure, we have to live with the 'holes'. Those cannot be plugged on a larger global scale, it has to happen on a individual level.

Wow!! This sounds a lot like a belief that we need to all take personal responsibility for our own actions. Are you getting conservative on me?

If it makes you feel better, sure I think your reaching on that one. Telling Grandma to stop opening Powerpoint forwards about 'Footsteps in the Sand' from some Ugandan is pretty far removed from political trappings. I spend hours with my mom doing just that. How did I solve it? Bought her a Mac.

Now fiscal responsibility! I think you're finally coming around here Artman.

Sadly, that shouldn't be a topic with any administration. But seriously, I think there a lot better things to spend Gov't money on than an internet bubble.

I think it is prudent to think about the ramifications of our actions. In other words, Where might an intitial action take us as we move on down the road? But I do think it is interesting that some only apply that thought process to some things. Big Brother might be unleashed so we shouldn't loosen his leash. But if abuses might occur related to universal healthcare there is no discussion about the potential abuses. The Arizona law might mean some abuses to hispanic appearing citizens. But we don't talk about the abuses that might occur to US citizens due to the fact that there are millions of illegal aliens in our midst.

I don't mind talk about what might occur, and I don't mind talking about what has occured. I just don't like mixing the two concepts when discussing different issues.

Not sure I want to get into that one RK...so this is me stepping away...

I am very much an America first type guy. We, as Americans, can argue among ourselves about what we should each be doing for, or to, each other. But I am always for an American over any other citizen of any other nation. Kind of like my brothers and sisters...I'll fight with them tooth and nail. But let some neighbor try to jump them and I'll come down on that neighbor like a ton of bricks.

I don't doubt that at all nor your patriotism. I don't think spam is the topic that's going to create a divisive county though. I think DG hit the nail on the head when he mentioned that China and Iran both try to filter and control the net. Do we really want to say we have that in common with them?

[..]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

What you heard is mostly correct BUT it only applies to name resolution. So if you type in eccie.net, your server/ISP would send out a request to get the address for eccie.net. It might go all the way to the root servers for .net which would tell it to go and ask the query from NS1.WIREDTREE.COM or
NS2.WIREDTREE.COM which would then respond with 96.30.44.159
Other software would then route you to that address.

Word! So Rudy now knows http://www.eccie.net.:80, http://eccie.net.:80 and http://96.30.44.159:80 is almost all the same! technology is full of surpises

[..]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

I am very much an America first type guy. We, as Americans, can argue among ourselves about what we should each be doing for, or to, each other. But I am always for an American over any other citizen of any other nation.

See this why i am such a arrogant smartass while dealing with avatars and personalities like yours.

But let's not be off-topic, so let's get back to your original question. A good solution are SPF records, but not everybody implements them and / or uses them:

http://www.google.com/support/a/bin/...n&answer=33786
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Policy_Framework