Nationalize BP

[oden]

How could this even be considered? Are we to follow the road of every despot dictator, big government, fascist, communist, punk socialist leader that has failed their society throughout history? We have civil courts and the rule of law to solve problems like this.

We do not need the seizing of companies by government to solve this. The trial balloons sent up by supposed credible sources like Robert Reich to try and sway populous opinion is indicative of an attack on American capitalist ideals.

By the way, had the well been on land, such as in Anwar, it would be a heck of a lot easier to contain.

Other countries are going to drill off our coasts, like BP and Venezuela and by international law we can do nothing about it. Why not do it right ourselves?

And what is wrong with clean nuclear and coal for that matter? I am tired of the "green special interest groups" that make billions of dollars for nothing, making money off of false promises and lies at the expense of our economy and national security.

I apologize for my frustration but common sense has to take over at some point. People have to realize that those non disposable bags at the organic food markets cause more incidents of food poisoning and hence out weigh the benefits of the overpriced food they bought.

You feel good about it but it does not work. If non politicized science, in the hands of an entrepreneur can fill a need of an educated populous, they would make a fortune by bringing it to market. Government brings in more taxes and people are happy.

Sorry for the rant, I do recycle.

[avagadro11]

Part of the problem is that BP has a long history of disregarding safety and environment in pursuit of profit.

From 1993 to 1995 BP illegally dumped hazardous waste on the North Slope of Alaska. They didn't want to spend the money to dispose of it properly. They were caught and fined.

In 2005 BP had an accident at their Texas City refinery that killed 15 workers and injured 170. An audit of the site commissioned by BP found a total disregard for safety by BP's management. BP of course promised to change. However, OSHA audited 2 BP refineries from 2007-2009 including Texas City, again found a total disregard for safety. They were fined $87 million for "willful violations" at Texas city, and something like $30 million for their Whiting refinery (near Chicago).

BP is the same company that in 2006 had to shut down the Alaska Pipeline because they didn't add corrosion inhibitors because they didn't want to spend the money. In 2007 they had another incident in Alaska for similar reasons.

I don't believe in nationalizing ANY industry. However, I am not sure what action can or should be taken against a huge multinational that absolutely disregards safety and environmental standards.

By the way, there are a whole range of things even bp's employees say bp stands for:

BP =
broken pipes
broken promises
beyond pathetic
big problems
bad planning
bad performance . . . and so on

[John Bull]

BP may be responsible for part of the problem but the government inspectors, under God knows how many administrations, including Saint Obama, bear great responsibility also.

That's assuming that Obama didn't have it blown so he wouldn't have to follow thru on his promise to open up drilling.

[Mazomaniac]

Well, I at least agree with one thing in Oden's post:

"Don't feed the trolls!"

Cheers,
Mazo.

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by John Bull

That's assuming that Obama didn't have it blown so he wouldn't have to follow thru on his promise to open up drilling.

That's a bit paranoid, JB...

But come on people...lets exercise a little reality check here. We are constantly pushing the envelope of our technological abilities. And when we do so...shit happens. Are people, and businesses trying to make money doing so?...Hell Yes. But no one wants any one to die...and no one wants the impending clean up that is coming. There are reasons these jobs pay more than the average job. It is because it is tough, hard and dangerous work.

Safety violations?...Geez, give me a break. Every job sight in the world has numerous "safety violations" every minute of every day. Do companies "cost analyze" the implementation of administering various safety codes?...Hell Yes to that too. But you...and me...and our illustrious government...do the same thing every day too. As a matter of fact our government exempts themselves from many of the same things they require of us.

How many of you go put on safety glasses when your mowing your lawn...or make sure you are wearing long heavy pants...and maybe steel toe boots. How many have a beer sitting on the stoop that you sip on as you need it throughout the job. And then if it goes south and you get hurt...we run down to the local hospital and want free health care.

I am all for the fines that get imposed on job sights and such...and am all doing things that save lives...just like each of you. But the "Oh my God" people impose a different standard on everyone else, than they do on themsleves in the same situation.

Get the well shut off...I think BP is doing so in as fast of a way as they know how using todays knowledge. Clean up the coast line. Send BP the bill and try like hell to make them pay it.

How did we become such a nation of whiners? Nationlize BP? Great!! Do it!! And then stand up and suffer the consequences, if any. We don't want offshore drilling? Perfect!! Shut it off. And then stand up and suffer the consequences of doing so, if any. Fine companies, tax 'em, tell 'em how to run things, make 'em do this or that...I don't care. But at the end, when we've done all that, and the world is a perfect place...or a shit hole...either way...stand up and say "You can thank me for that!!"

Ok, end of rant...I'm going back to work.

[nevergaveitathought]

the master of weasel words didnt say anything abt opening up the drilling for oil..he said for "exploration"

clinton was the grand master at weasel words...obama is pretty good at it.

when a dem gives a speech...they never define their words...they have thier own defintions

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

That's a bit paranoid, JB...

But come on people...lets exercise a little reality check here. We are constantly pushing the envelope of our technological abilities. And when we do so...shit happens. Are people, and businesses trying to make money doing so?...Hell Yes. But no one wants any one to die...and no one wants the impending clean up that is coming. There are reasons these jobs pay more than the average job. It is because it is tough, hard and dangerous work.

Amen. And lets not forget who owns BP. Not some big evil Oil Baron or J.R. Ewing, but you and me (or many of us) as part of portfolios or retirement accounts (& believe me BP has taken a hit since the spill). For the most part it is a well run company that has made a ton of money for its shareholders (you and me).

And, do you really want Obama running anything?

[..]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

believe me BP has taken a hit since the spill

quite an understatement. both fitch and moody reduced their credit ratings for BP; their stock is down; and their underwater gusher still pukes oil.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ing-downgraded
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:BP

hence financially BP has a huge interest in fixing this; just the situation is horrible from a technical POV. what is now sold to the public as good news "hey we cut the pipe now" is actually not really great, as the cut is very uneven.

[..]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

Amen. And lets not forget who owns BP. Not some big evil Oil Baron or J.R. Ewing, but you and me (or many of us) as part of portfolios or retirement accounts (& believe me BP has taken a hit since the spill). For the most part it is a well run company that has made a ton of money for its shareholders (you and me).

And, do you really want Obama running anything?

well, quite a few from his administration come from big oil anyways.
e.g. Sylvia Baca came from BP to Obama's DOI
http://www.doi.gov/archive/bio/baca_bio.html


Disclaimer: I still think Obama does a much better job overall than Bush; but to nationalize BP is a stupid idea.

Government should be a strong a critical watchdog and supervisor; but should never be an owner or stakeholder!

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

when a dem gives a speech...they never define their words...they have thier own defintions

and here I thought all politicians did that.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

the master of weasel words didnt say anything abt opening up the drilling for oil..he said for "exploration"

clinton was the grand master at weasel words...obama is pretty good at it.

when a dem gives a speech...they never define their words...they have thier own defintions

The Socialist Democrats accuse the Republicans of using 'code words.'

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by ..

well, quite a few from his administration come from big oil anyways.
e.g. Sylvia Baca came from BP to Obama's DOI
http://www.doi.gov/archive/bio/baca_bio.html

Well I am not an Obama fan...Duh.

But nevertheless, sourcing someone from the oil & gas industry to help administer oil & gas seems fairly prudent to me, and is evidence of nothing nefarious. Only an idoit would go source someone from the health care industry to help administer oil & gas...or for that matter banking, transportation, education, etc.

These industry connections are a smoke screen...just as they were in the Bush administration...and no more valid than when everyone was talking about Cheney and Halliburton. But they make for good news fodder.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

and here I thought all politicians did that.

listen closely and i think you'll find the more open, plain spoken, more frequent user of the common definition and meaning pol on one side more than the other.

the american ppl arent ready for the plans of obama, and he knows it.

[Guest050715-1]

I read an Op-Ed last weekend in the Houston Chronicle (I think it was George Will) about deep water drilling. The crux of the piece is that environmentalists are the ones that have forced oil companies out of shallow water and into deep water drilling. A geologist friend of mine told me shallow water drilling is dangerous to coral reefs, and that coral reefs are a big part of what regulates CO2 in the atmosphere. So a deepwater spill is supposedly better than damaging the reefs. I don’t know.

BP has a sordid and unconscionable past. BP started out life as Anglo-Persian Oil Company, changed it to Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (sometime near the start of WWII), and later changed to British Petroleum after they plundered all they could out of Iran. The dealings between BP, the British and Iran’s oil through the mid-20th centruy are a major component of the West’s (our) problem with Iran. They basically stole the oil from Iran. The royalties they paid were negligible and the tribute they demanded for drilling was appalling.

Avagadro11 is right. BP has stomped all over the North Slope (Where they are one of two lease holders). They’ve spilled oil, dumped waste all over the place – Here, in The States, on our largest reserve. I don’t care how much risk actuaries can rationalize for their employers, in the end, it’s our country. Fine, ignore their atrocious history. Why are we giving one of our most valuable – war starting resources away to a foreign company?

I really don’t know anything about the oil bidness, but there has to be a way re-directing their leases to other companies. And isn’t their a cap on the amount of damages a company has to pay? What happens when that cap is reached? Then can we hold their leases over their heads? Invent a tax just for them?

[charlestudor2005]

I expected the anti-Obama rhetoric given the political bent of most of the posters on this board.

However, if GM is any example, I would say nationalizing BP would be a b-i-i-g mistake.