'If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen'

[Doove]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

It's like saying the spectators at a NASCAR race are entitled to a share of the purse, because they showed up and watched.

No, it's more like Amazon.com understanding that if Al Gore didn't invent the internet, Amazon.com would not do very well.

Pretty simple concept for the non-nitwits amongst us.

[fetishfreak]

Originally Posted by cinderbella

In my own personal particular situation, I do believe and have acknowledged two women for teaching me the ropes about my own personal small business. I applied for and obtained an independent business license well before I had any idea I would use it to pay taxes in the way that I do now. Originally I thought I would use my license to sell my artwork. Needless to say, sales were slow. I longed to be a self supporting independent small business owner.

One day, while searching on Amazon I found a book titled Sex Secrets of an Escort by Veronica Monet. It was an incredible read, and very enlightening. She had the most amazing attitude and outlook. I wanted to be a sexually liberated woman and to enjoy men the way she seemed to appreciate them. Eventually on Amazon I became aquainted with the equally inspiring Amanda Brooks and read her first book, a more sober and educational look at the nuts and bolts of independent escorting. I must say that with all honesty if it had not been for those two books and subsequently corresponding via email with Amanda Brooks and following her blog I would not be the independent successful massuse I am today. Those two women were definitely the trailblazers for my unique situation and I still follow both Veronica Monet and Amanda Brooks on facebook and their blogs whenever they post. It was via Amanda that I found eccie and p411. In all honesty, I must admit if it were not for their books and their activism I would not have a clue about what I have come to do what I love and adore and gratefully make my living at. I also have absolutely no plans to ever work for anyone else again, that when I am no longer able to do what I do then I will sell my artwork and submit my writing for publication or perhaps self publish on Kindle. Working for oneself and doing what you love is an incredible feeling and I am grateful everyday to these women for blazing the trail for me.

This is what it is really about. In the end no human venture is truly done all alone. Someone does help along the way... For it to be truly successful the individual or group of individuals working together must make it work themselves.

Amanda and Veronica did not make the choices for her... They just offered advice that she used to make the choices. Amanda and Veronica did not share in the risk... they just offered advice on how to mitigate the risk.

Now I have not seen her before so I do not know what is on her menu. But when she gets a client and performs a service for him the money she earns was earned by her hand. No one else is entitled to it. If Amanda and Veronica want to charge her for the advice (which they did by selling her the book) that would be there money.

Where Obama went wrong was not in the message of you did not do that by yourself. His error was the implication of the remainder of the statements that government is why we succeed. While he did not say it directly the things he listed were government projects. Success should not be limited by what government bureaucrats are willing to allow us to have as a resource. Society will improve much more rapidly by the ability of people to use there imagination and abilities to work towards a goal... A goal of their own choosing... They may fail... It may take them more than one attempt... but they deserve the opportunity to try! If there abilities and imagination are not enough, then someone else can come along behind them and try it again.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by fetishfreak

Where Obama went wrong was not in the message of you did not do that by yourself. His error was the implication of the remainder of the statements that government is why we succeed.

For the 20 zillionth time:

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

Being required to point out the obvious is getting pretty tiring.

[fetishfreak]

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.

Look I can highlight statements in bold inside the speech too. Yes you quoted him accuratly. Yes you have said repeatedly that he talked about individual initiative. I said HE WENT WRONG WHEN HE IMPLIED GOVERNMENT IS NECESSARY FOR OUR SUCCESS!

perhaps the slight word change will help you to understand. We do not need government to succeed. We can do it on our own terms that was my point. But thanks for posting in big letters that which I already had read and acknowledged him saying.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by fetishfreak

Look I can highlight statements in bold inside the speech too. Yes you quoted him accuratly. Yes you have said repeatedly that he talked about individual initiative. I said HE WENT WRONG WHEN HE IMPLIED GOVERNMENT IS NECESSARY FOR OUR SUCCESS!

And here i'll disagree with your characterization of what you last said. Here's your quote:

Where Obama went wrong was not in the message of you did not do that by yourself. His error was the implication of the remainder of the statements that government is why we succeed.

Yes, he implied Government is necessary for our success. No he did not say government is why we succeed.

We do not need government to succeed.

Imagine living in a country with no government. Trust me, you will fail.

[Seedy]

Ok here it is in black and white....FUCK OBAMA...he said what he meant , and meant what he said. It will be his undoing in the fall....good ridance to that communist bastard....

[CuteOldGuy]

That's the only way to deal with these people, Seedman. The only way. It used to be fun watch them twist and turn to try to make it sound like Obama didn't say what he really said. Now it's kind of sad. Pathetic, really.

[CuteOldGuy]

Just remember the Footprints in the Sand -

When you look back on your business life, and see only one set of footprints, just know that it was then,

Obama carried you!

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Just remember the Footprints in the Sand -

When you look back on your business life, and see only one set of footprints, just know that it was then,

Obama carried you!

That was beautiful COG. I never knew you were so deep. I'm getting verklempt.

[CuteOldGuy]

Let's say you have an idea to produce "Product X." First, you research what it would take to produce that product, locate material providers, research and purchase the required machines, hire a lawyer to research the need for a patent, or if a patent already exists, develop a business plan, locate financing and research local laws and regulations.

After satisfying yourself you're ready, you find a location, and begin manufacturing, having secured the required insurance, permits, etc. At first, it is a one person operation, but as demand grows, you decide to hire employees. You research what the employees need to be paid, what kind of experience/education is required, increased insurance costs, cost of taxes to be paid, worker's comp, etc. You hire your employees.

The business grows, you must find a new location, hire more employees, find suppliers, examine warranties, etc.

Across the street a plant opens producing "Product Y'. They pay their employees 15% more than you do. You have to decide whether to increase wages, or watch your better employees go across the street, whether to increase price so you can raise wages to compete with "Product Y', etc.

You have hired employees, attorneys, accountants. paid suppliers, insurance, government fees and overhead bills.

And all these things get paid first, before you, as the owner, take anything home. You're working 60-80 hours per week, on a slow week. You miss a kid's ball game and dance recital. Your anniversary dinner has to be late, because you are at work.

You've paid your taxes, insurance, employees, contractors, suppliers, regulators, utilities, etc. What's left you get to keep.

Now, how much is the guy who is sitting on the bench outside the plant watching this whole thing entitled to from what you get to keep? Who else do you owe anything to?

The teacher who inspired you, got paid for their work. Should they get a commission on every child they taught who makes a profit, or a good salary?

The roads were paid for by the taxes you paid in order to do business. Do you need to pay more? When you pay a bill, you put a stamp on the envelope. Do you owe still more to the post office for that privilege?

How much extra will the government decide you need to "contribute" to all the people responsible for your success, and how will they determine who is worthy, and who isn't, considering that none of them were there when you spent those late nights researching, testing, calculating, etc.

Who gets what, and how much, and who decides?

[Doove]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

That's the only way to deal with these people, Seedman. The only way. It used to be fun watch them twist and turn to try to make it sound like Obama didn't say what he really said. Now it's kind of sad. Pathetic, really.

Like watching people twist and turn to try to claim Rush didn't say what he said?

Or you?

"if a person got ahead in life, that person owes a portion of his/her wealth to others who did not take the risk" - COG

[Chica Chaser]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

*Somebody invested in roads and bridges.

Indeed they did and continue to do......you, me and everyone else. The roads and road repair are paid for by the Motor Fuel Taxes that we pay every time we fill-up. Currently to the tune of

18.4 cents/gal to the Federal Government

The gas tax continued to gradually increase over the years with the passage of more laws. The Omnibus Budget Revenue Reconciliation Act of 1990 (OBRA90) established the new tax rate as $0.14/gallon with $0.025/gallon going to deficit reduction. Later, the government removed deficit payments and increased the fuel tax to 18.4 cents.

http://drivesteady.com/where-do-gas-taxes-go

PLUS

The average state gasoline excise tax is 21.0,
up .1 cpg from April 2012. Other taxes (such as applicable sales taxes, gross receipts taxes,
oil inspection fees, county and local taxes, underground storage tank fees and other
miscellaneous environmental fees) were 9.5 cpg, down .7 cpg from April. Adding these taxes
and fees to the state excise taxes results in a volume-weighted average state and local tax of
31.1 cpg.

http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-g...l-summary.ashx

The government (Federal or State) does not PAY for roads (or anything else). They merely collect our money at the pump (or sales taxes, income taxes, excise taxes, etc) then distribute it back out. It is always OUR money to begin with, government is just kind enough to dole it back out.

[nevergaveitathought]

all this talk about roads and bridges being key to an individual's success...

roads and bridges being just a substitute for government...everything obama mentioned as being key to success was government,....roads and bridges, teachers as agents of government, firefighters....

why isnt everyone a financial success since in obama's view there are "plenty" of hard working smart people and roads and bridges seem to be unable to discriminate among those who may use their services? could it just be risk taking and initiative and hard work and self reliance and individualism are the keys? things obama hates

his mocking comments about risk takers,,,you think you are so smart well let me tell you, there are plenty of smart people...or his denigration of hard work as not being the key ...as if these things.. . hard work especially.... which are the real elements in financial success....are not the key but a road or bridge is....well if roads and bridges were the key..or any aspect of government was....most everyone then should be a financial success since there are plenty of smart hard working people in obama's view...and his government is all pervasive ....or maybe his unstated but logical claim extension is government has only benefited a few and i need to have it benefit many more smart hard working people.........so either government just hasnt reached enough smart, hard-working risk taking people to make them a success or maybe government isnt the key or maybe its there aren't as many hard working people as obama so blithely claims on his march to dismissing hard work as the element missing in some. i leave it to the american people to decide. but one thing is sure, logic seems in short supply in obama's philosphy but zealousness takes up the slack

and besides who made ready the way and the roads first? what came first government or entreprenuership? was the mayflower a private enterprise? the london virginia company. were mountain men, kit carson et al..agents of government? didnt daniel boone, an independent speculator and frontiersman blaze the cumberland gap? the military only followed the frontiersman as they spread westward. you may say, king ferdinand financed columbus but columbus was an individual with an idea and i could counter with the individuals crossing the bering strait or the eric the red....

it is mere sophistry to credit government as the source of success, as government was formed to protect success...and government now seems more the source of waste and non-economical political decision making and spreading the misery equally and creating the nanny state and corruption and cronyism and unionism than entreprenuership

[CuteOldGuy]

I kind of suspect that even if government hadn't built the roads, the roads would have been built. People become quite innovative when it is in their interest to be that way.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Let's say you have an idea to produce "Product X." First, you research what it would take to produce that product, locate material providers, research and purchase the required machines, hire a lawyer to research the need for a patent, or if a patent already exists, develop a business plan, locate financing and research local laws and regulations.

After satisfying yourself you're ready, you find a location, and begin manufacturing, having secured the required insurance, permits, etc. At first, it is a one person operation, but as demand grows, you decide to hire employees. You research what the employees need to be paid, what kind of experience/education is required, increased insurance costs, cost of taxes to be paid, worker's comp, etc. You hire your employees.

The business grows, you must find a new location, hire more employees, find suppliers, examine warranties, etc.

Across the street a plant opens producing "Product Y'. They pay their employees 15% more than you do. You have to decide whether to increase wages, or watch your better employees go across the street, whether to increase price so you can raise wages to compete with "Product Y', etc.

You have hired employees, attorneys, accountants. paid suppliers, insurance, government fees and overhead bills.

And all these things get paid first, before you, as the owner, take anything home. You're working 60-80 hours per week, on a slow week. You miss a kid's ball game and dance recital. Your anniversary dinner has to be late, because you are at work.

You've paid your taxes, insurance, employees, contractors, suppliers, regulators, utilities, etc. What's left you get to keep.

Now, how much is the guy who is sitting on the bench outside the plant watching this whole thing entitled to from what you get to keep? Who else do you owe anything to?

The teacher who inspired you, got paid for their work. Should they get a commission on every child they taught who makes a profit, or a good salary?

The roads were paid for by the taxes you paid in order to do business. Do you need to pay more? When you pay a bill, you put a stamp on the envelope. Do you owe still more to the post office for that privilege?

How much extra will the government decide you need to "contribute" to all the people responsible for your success, and how will they determine who is worthy, and who isn't, considering that none of them were there when you spent those late nights researching, testing, calculating, etc.

Who gets what, and how much, and who decides?

You forgot to get a patent,so doove stole the idea and undercut by outsourcing you just went broke.