Doctors dont lie

[gnadfly]

Some doctors lie all the time. Remember how Obama keeps repeating how there is 200 BILLION dollars in Medicare fraud every year? A lot of that is doctors falsifying Medicare claims. Yep, I know of a doctor that falsified Medicare claims and got TWO years in the Federal Pen.

Guess what. 1) He didn't give the money back 2) He is practicing again.

As an auditor and taxpayer I'm outraged that there's 200 Billion $$$ in annual Medicare fraud and the govt isn't doing anything about it.

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by CJ7

I did my homework ...

your dads Dr is 87 years old. ,,, if he said hes quiting the profession, he should. I seriously boubt Obamacare made his decision to retire.


if by chance youre using malpractice ins as an excuse, Texas doesnt require (by law) Dr's have malpractice ins ... Hospitals in Texas require Dr's that use the facility to have malpractice ins to cover their asses ... Obamacare wont have any effect on Drs overhead.

counsel rests , or wagers.

The events I described happened close to twenty years ago. As of early 1991, the Dr had already retired once, then got bored and came out of retirement.

His issue was the required computer and operator for Medicare/Medicaid billing, and the costs thereof.

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Med mal lawsuits have been all but eliminated in Texas. Medical prices here have nonetheless risen at a faster pace since then than in States where victims still retain their rights.

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...h-2402096.html

Yet the medical malpractice epidemic continues to grow. 98,000 preventable deaths a year from medical mistakes. Shameful.

http://www.98000reasons.org/

TTH, I think you may be overlooking something. Medical prices must cover ALL of the costs of the medical business, because that's the only cash flow INTO the business. If the business is required to provide increasing amounts of uncompensated care for e.g. illegal immigrants, if the business is required to take a loss on certain customers, they have to make it up SOMEWHERE.

[Yssup Rider]

Local taxes, through hospital districts, cover a lot of it. Everything that the Fed or State won't cover still gets paid for locally. The main perps of Medicare/medicaid fraud aren't doctors, but hospitals.

[UB9IB6]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Some doctors lie all the time. Remember how Obama keeps repeating how there is 200 BILLION dollars in Medicare fraud every year? A lot of that is doctors falsifying Medicare claims. Yep, I know of a doctor that falsified Medicare claims and got TWO years in the Federal Pen.

Guess what. 1) He didn't give the money back 2) He is practicing again.

As an auditor and taxpayer I'm outraged that there's 200 Billion $$$ in annual Medicare fraud and the govt isn't doing anything about it.

+100
Couldn't agree more.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

TTH, I think you may be overlooking something. Medical prices must cover ALL of the costs of the medical business, because that's the only cash flow INTO the business. If the business is required to provide increasing amounts of uncompensated care for e.g. illegal immigrants, if the business is required to take a loss on certain customers, they have to make it up SOMEWHERE.

So in your book, it's ok to kill people and not compensate them because folks don't have insurance??!!

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by CJ7

Lawsuits are not limiting access to health care. The U.S. General Accounting Office found, after an extensive investigation, that doctors’ groups have misled, fabricated evidence, or, at the very least, wildly overstated their case about how malpractice insurance problems have limited access to health care. The only health care access problems that GAO could confirm were isolated and the result of factors having nothing at all to do with the legal system.

Of course, doctors lie. Why? Because people like you allow citizens to profit off of lying about doctors. How many people who sue doctors and lie under oath are jailed for perjury? Find me one person.

A Texas citizen can lie his ass off about a doctor to the medical board without worry about the doctor suing him for liable or slander. The same is true about medical expert witnesses, malpractice attorneys, judges, and insurance companies. It is all part of blaming doctors for the ills of our health care system. The rule of thumb for doctors is, "everyone can lie about you but you can't lie about them." Well, a lot of doctors don't think that is fair and lie back.

"Medical malpractice costs are a tiny percentage of overall health care expenditures. Medical malpractice insurance and claims costs represent, at most, only 2 percent of overall health care spending in this country, according to both the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting Office."

Well, if having malpractice laws were so critical to good medical care, how come the U.S. has such high costs, so many lawyers, and such crummy care? Hmmm? The New England Journal of Medicine came out with an article stating that there was definite medical malpractice but that malpractice lawyers do a horrible job of identifying the doctors who actually commit it. And lawyers could give a rat's ass about who is guilty, the #1 thing that they look for are "deep pockets".

2% of the medical budget is $50 billion per year, which is greater than the GDP of Panama, but that $50 billion is peanuts compared to how lawyers really fuck up the cost structure.

One piece of shit judge/lawyer cost the public $15 billion on one decision by extending Pfizer's monopolistic sale of Viagra in the U.S. for seven more years. See the link: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ceuticals.html

What did Pfizer legally do to extend their monopoly? They filed a patent for use of Viagra for erectile dysfunction after a decade of marketing Viagra for ED. What did they really do? They bribed this judge/lawyer in a direct or indirect way. So that $50 billion number is bullshit with regards to how much lawyers cost the public medically. This one decision is $15 billion.

Then you look at John Edwards and his multimillion dollar verdicts against totally innocent doctors for kids born with cerebral palsy.

"One of his most noted victories was a $23 million settlement he got from a 1995 case — his last before joining the Senate — in which he sued the doctor, gynecological clinic, anesthesiologist and hospital involved in the birth of Bailey Griffin, who had cerebral palsy and other medical problems.

In 2003, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists published a joint study that cast serious doubt on whether events at childbirth cause cerebral palsy. The 'vast majority' of cerebral palsy cases originate long before childbirth, according to the study."

Edwards had to make up a bunch of bullshit costly procedures that these doctors didn't do and had to claim by neglecting to do said tests, children were born with CP. So what do other doctors do when they see a fellow obstetrician get a $23 million verdict against them for not doing procedure A and B? They start doing unnecessary procedures A and B, and costs skyrocket, but the CBO and GAO don't count those costs.

And shouldn't an egotistical, narcisstic asshole like Edwards have to pay back the money he stole from the system given that he lied and was wrong? Of course not. He is envied not vilified by the legal community for his persecution of innocent doctors. Hell, the media ran to Edwards and gave him a voice on how to reform medicine when in reality the best thing for medical costs would be to put lawyers like Edwards in jail.

When I hear lawyers talk of lawsuits as the "cost of doing business", I always ask "And how many times have you been sued?" I have never got an answer to that question because I am sure it is always none.

The head of Medicare said defensive medicine costs are 9% or $225 billion per year but IMO if you look at ALL the indirect costs, the amount is closer to 30% which amounts to $750 billion a year.

The reason Americans pay 50 cents of every dollar spent on medications in the world is because of our fucked up legal system benefiting drug companies. If you want to buy generic $2 Viagra that are as good if not better than those sold in the U.S. for $20, head to the Mexican border.

This is what Michael Crichton, a doctor, warned us about, "Out of this study he has found certain fads, one such is the state of fear that is perpetuated by the politico-legal-media (PLM) complex, that is, promoting fear under the guise of promoting safety. "Politicians need fears to control the population. Lawyers need dangers to litigate, and make money. The media need scare stories to capture an audience. Together, these three estates are so compelling that they can go about their business even if the scare is totally groundless."

And what do all the government dickheads and their lawyer buddies talk about with regards to why we can't reimport drugs from Mexico and Canada? Safety of course. But do you know where much of the Viagara sold in the U.S. comes from? Ireland. LOL.

So here we go again with the fear mongering. Doctors are lying!! Hide the kiddies, ladies. These doctors are coming for them!!

[Sensia]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Just ask him/her how Obamacare will affect their practice.

COG,

I had a client the other day who is a doctor. I did ask him about what he felt the impact will be concerning the new healthcare law. His answer.. "I am not really sure yet, too early to tell". He didn't seem to concerned about it right now.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

Of course, doctors lie. Why? Because people like you allow citizens to profit off of lying about doctors. How many people who sue doctors and lie under oath are jailed for perjury? Find me one person.

A Texas citizen can lie his ass off about a doctor to the medical board without worry about the doctor suing him for liable or slander. The same is true about medical expert witnesses, malpractice attorneys, judges, and insurance companies. It is all part of blaming doctors for the ills of our health care system. The rule of thumb for doctors is, "everyone can lie about you but you can't lie about them." Well, a lot of doctors don't think that is fair and lie back.

"Medical malpractice costs are a tiny percentage of overall health care expenditures. Medical malpractice insurance and claims costs represent, at most, only 2 percent of overall health care spending in this country, according to both the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting Office."

Well, if having malpractice laws were so critical to good medical care, how come the U.S. has such high costs, so many lawyers, and such crummy care? Hmmm? The New England Journal of Medicine came out with an article stating that there was definite medical malpractice but that malpractice lawyers do a horrible job of identifying the doctors who actually commit it. And lawyers could give a rat's ass about who is guilty, the #1 thing that they look for are "deep pockets".

2% of the medical budget is $50 billion per year, which is greater than the GDP of Panama, but that $50 billion is peanuts compared to how lawyers really fuck up the cost structure.

One piece of shit judge/lawyer cost the public $15 billion on one decision by extending Pfizer's monopolistic sale of Viagra in the U.S. for seven more years. See the link: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ceuticals.html

What did Pfizer legally do to extend their monopoly? They filed a patent for use of Viagra for erectile dysfunction after a decade of marketing Viagra for ED. What did they really do? They bribed this judge/lawyer in a direct or indirect way. So that $50 billion number is bullshit with regards to how much lawyers cost the public medically. This one decision is $15 billion.

Then you look at John Edwards and his multimillion dollar verdicts against totally innocent doctors for kids born with cerebral palsy.

"One of his most noted victories was a $23 million settlement he got from a 1995 case — his last before joining the Senate — in which he sued the doctor, gynecological clinic, anesthesiologist and hospital involved in the birth of Bailey Griffin, who had cerebral palsy and other medical problems.

In 2003, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists published a joint study that cast serious doubt on whether events at childbirth cause cerebral palsy. The 'vast majority' of cerebral palsy cases originate long before childbirth, according to the study."

Edwards had to make up a bunch of bullshit costly procedures that these doctors didn't do and had to claim by neglecting to do said tests, children were born with CP. So what do other doctors do when they see a fellow obstetrician get a $23 million verdict against them for not doing procedure A and B? They start doing unnecessary procedures A and B, and costs skyrocket, but the CBO and GAO don't count those costs.

And shouldn't an egotistical, narcisstic asshole like Edwards have to pay back the money he stole from the system given that he lied and was wrong? Of course not. He is envied not vilified by the legal community for his persecution of innocent doctors. Hell, the media ran to Edwards and gave him a voice on how to reform medicine when in reality the best thing for medical costs would be to put lawyers like Edwards in jail.

When I hear lawyers talk of lawsuits as the "cost of doing business", I always ask "And how many times have you been sued?" I have never got an answer to that question because I am sure it is always none.

The head of Medicare said defensive medicine costs are 9% or $225 billion per year but IMO if you look at ALL the indirect costs, the amount is closer to 30% which amounts to $750 billion a year.

The reason Americans pay 50 cents of every dollar spent on medications in the world is because of our fucked up legal system benefiting drug companies. If you want to buy generic $2 Viagra that are as good if not better than those sold in the U.S. for $20, head to the Mexican border.

This is what Michael Crichton, a doctor, warned us about, "Out of this study he has found certain fads, one such is the state of fear that is perpetuated by the politico-legal-media (PLM) complex, that is, promoting fear under the guise of promoting safety. "Politicians need fears to control the population. Lawyers need dangers to litigate, and make money. The media need scare stories to capture an audience. Together, these three estates are so compelling that they can go about their business even if the scare is totally groundless."

And what do all the government dickheads and their lawyer buddies talk about with regards to why we can't reimport drugs from Mexico and Canada? Safety of course. But do you know where much of the Viagara sold in the U.S. comes from? Ireland. LOL.

So here we go again with the fear mongering. Doctors are lying!! Hide the kiddies, ladies. These doctors are coming for them!!

feel better after you took a shit? Youre damn sure full of it.

people like me?

I post the facts that counter one of rightwings talking points about healthcare ie malpractice costs, and Im fear mongering .... well, I fear youre an idiot.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by CJ7

remind me how the healthcare law has anything to do with malpractice ins ...

if anything, the influx of new patients will help offset that cost ... malpractice ins doesnt go up because a Dr sees more paitents

CJ, you are truly out of touch with reality on this one.

Only a very small part is malpractice payments. There are two much, much bigger pieces you refuse to acknowledge.

1. Insurance premiums. Even for Drs who have practiced for years with no hint of malpractice the malpractice insurance premiums have gone through the roof. That is one reason (a very big one) why many have cut back on what kind of patients they see. Some are now doing background checks on potential patients to see if there is anything in their history to indicate they are sue-happy. Others have stopped doing inherently high $ suit targets such as deliveries. If a baby is born with any problem--even if genetic or mother-induced--a baby with problems plays much too well with juries.

2. Added price for tests. The number of exceedingly low likelihood tests--many at high cost--that are now routinely done is staggering. It is NOT because the Dr thinks they are actually needed, but rather because if they don't do it they open themselves up to "Why didn't you do the XYZ test? You should have! It's YOUR fault!" I had a wart on my foot and when I saw the nurse practitioner who should have taken care of it--NO! Off to the podiatrist, an X-Ray to check for a bone spur (though there was no symptom), a biopsy (though it looked like a very ordinary wart), and two more appointments before a plain, ordinary wart removal that should have been the first option. Why? FEAR of a suit.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

The events I described happened close to twenty years ago. As of early 1991, the Dr had already retired once, then got bored and came out of retirement.

His issue was the required computer and operator for Medicare/Medicaid billing, and the costs thereof.

I certainly understand that sidewinder, never doubted you in the least .. 20 years ago, (in 1992) we werent sitting in our offices shopping for hookers 24/7 on little boxes that looked like tvs. and watching porn in the interim ... like Bob said, times are a chaingn'

I seriously doubt in this day of technology there are many medical facilities that still use pencil and paper record keeping systems, or worry about the costs of going to computers. IMO theyre more worried about not having electronics ... I can almost say without a doubt the new generation Drs that grew up on a computer will have nothing less than computerized record keeping systems.

I could tell you what my daughters best friend does for a living, who shes employed by, and where her office is if you'd like ... apparently thats the direction the aforementioned sector of the medical world is heading ...

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Old-T

CJ, you are truly out of touch with reality on this one.

Only a very small part is malpractice payments. There are two much, much bigger pieces you refuse to acknowledge.

1. Insurance premiums. Even for Drs who have practiced for years with no hint of malpractice the malpractice insurance premiums have gone through the roof. That is one reason (a very big one) why many have cut back on what kind of patients they see. Some are now doing background checks on potential patients to see if there is anything in their history to indicate they are sue-happy. Others have stopped doing inherently high $ suit targets such as deliveries. If a baby is born with any problem--even if genetic or mother-induced--a baby with problems plays much too well with juries.

2. Added price for tests. The number of exceedingly low likelihood tests--many at high cost--that are now routinely done is staggering. It is NOT because the Dr thinks they are actually needed, but rather because if they don't do it they open themselves up to "Why didn't you do the XYZ test? You should have! It's YOUR fault!" I had a wart on my foot and when I saw the nurse practitioner who should have taken care of it--NO! Off to the podiatrist, an X-Ray to check for a bone spur (though there was no symptom), a biopsy (though it looked like a very ordinary wart), and two more appointments before a plain, ordinary wart removal that should have been the first option. Why? FEAR of a suit.

geeze ... thsats exactly my damn point OT and exactly why I posted the article

the rightwingers moan about the cost of malpractice ins and how Drs will quit because Obamacare makes that cost go up ... read completely through the thread start to finish

[Yssup Rider]

In other words, tort reform, which was supposed to be the CURE to the rising costs of health care (and business for that matter), didn't really do shit.

Still the Repubs continue to stump for national tort reform, as if product liability and medical mal cases were under the jurisdiction of the federal government, which they're not.

Has never made sense. Just political blather.

Go figure.

Meanwhile, states with the tightest restriction on tort suits have attracted doctors who couldn't practice in other states because they kept getting sued for malpractice.

Can't have it both ways.

No wonder Romney is their choice of candidate. He's absolutely steadfast in his position on both subjects...

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by CJ7

geeze ... thsats exactly my damn point OT and exactly why I posted the article

the rightwingers moan about the cost of malpractice ins and how Drs will quit because Obamacare makes that cost go up ... read completely through the thread start to finish

I did read it. My point was that the THREAT of malpractice insurance, and the implications of it, ARE largely what has driven up the costs. Not completely by any means, but a very large part of it. It is not only the direct malpractice judgements.

And I guess I don't see the "obvious" connection between Obama's health care approach and malpractice suits going up or down.

The bad MDs need to be sued, but sanity has left all politics. One side wants to sue none, the other side wants to sue them all. Neithwer works well.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Old-T

I did read it. My point was that the THREAT of malpractice insurance, and the implications of it, ARE largely what has driven up the costs. Not completely by any means, but a very large part of it. It is not only the direct malpractice judgements.

And I guess I don't see the "obvious" connection between Obama's health care approach and malpractice suits going up or down.

The bad MDs need to be sued, but sanity has left all politics. One side wants to sue none, the other side wants to sue them all. Neithwer works well.

I kept hearing "ask your Doctor" regarding the healthcare law because the rightwingers THINK that the healthcare law will drive up the cost of malpractice ins ...

hence my my original post that disproves that is the case

inasmuch as Texas doesnt make having malpractice ins mandatory unless the Dr uses hospitals for his services, theres no way the healthcare law will effect Tx drs

at the end of the day, my point and proof clearly shows there is no connection between the healthcare law and the cost of malpractice ins....