Bastiat on Socialism

[CuteOldGuy]

"We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain."

-Frédéric Bastiat

[IIFFOFRDB]

Yup, thats what we have been talking about.... They do not get it... We are not giving up.....

[joe bloe]

Andrew Wilkow, on satelite radio, is a huge fan of Bastiat. I never heard of him until I started listening to Wilkow. It's amazing that the struggle between conservative ideas and socialist ideas has been going on for so long. Bastiat's observations are as valid today as the day the wrote them.

[i'va biggen]

who are the socialist here or abroad?

[Doove]

Then you know what it feels like to be called a communist because you believe in a safety net. Or a progressive income tax. And on and on and on...

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

"We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all."

Who is it that says that again?

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by Doove

Then you know what it feels like to be called a communist because you believe in a safety net. Or a progressive income tax. And on and on and on...

You and the others that want a safety net should form a charity, contribute to it, and pay for exactly that.

Ohhh wait, you don't actually want to do the work yourselves, and you want others that do not want welfare to pay for it. Hmmm, sounds like Karl to me.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

Hmmm, sounds like Karl to me.

And it sounds like every civilized country in the world to me.

[Texas Contrarian]

I always enjoyed Bastiat's commentary on "that which is seen, and that which is not seen", and particularly the "broken window fallacy."

http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html

WTF, do you rememberr saying this several months ago?

Originally Posted by WTF

Exactly what people fail to realize is that we were the glazier's of WWII. We benefited from all the broken windows, some of which we broke at the end of the war to benefit us even more.

I remember that you and I had a discussion a couple of years back about this issue, and Bastiat's little parable was mentioned (I can't remember whether you or I brought it up first).

But I liked your metaphor and was struck with a way to go further and carry out a little thought experiment.

Let's say the glazier was a crook who cooked up a scheme to build a sophisticated, expensive little machine with which the little boy could get away with breaking windows all over town, and every night. He had to take on an uncomfortable amount of debt to so so, but figured that all the new work would comfortably cover the machine, and then some.

If it can be said that World War II offered benefits for our economy in any way, they were limited to the metaphorical equivalent of last paragraph's scenario.

Wars don't make us wealthier. They destroy wealth.

Just like breaking windows.

[Guest123018-4]

I have nothing against a safety net, but I do have something against hose that lay in they net forever.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by The2Dogs

I have nothing against a safety net, but I do have something against hose that lay in they net forever.

It's supposed to be a safey net, not a hammock. The really evil thing about freeloaders, that live on welfare when they don't have to, is that they use up the money that we need to take care of the truly needy. Somewhere a child will go hungry or and old person will not be cared for because of some welfare parasite that sells his food stamps to by malt liquor and cigarettes.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by Doove

And it sounds like every civilized country in the world to me.

Greece included, but I do not want America to end up like them and welfare is not the determining factor for a civilized country, no matter what political rule.

I realize the suckling of others teats is perfectly okay and become the norm for some, I just prefer not to indulge or support it, for it seems rather degrading to one's morale.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

Greece included, but I do not want America to end up like them and welfare is not the determining factor for a civilized country, no matter what political rule.

I realize the suckling of others teats is perfectly okay and become the norm for some, I just prefer not to indulge or support it, for it seems rather degrading to one's morale.

One of the worst things about welfare fraud is that it kills the self respect of the person who practices it. It robs him of his dignity. At some level, the freeloader knows he is living off of the work of others. He knows that his behavior is wrong. This kills his self respect. To compensate for these feelings of guilt, the welfare parasite demonizes the class of people he is feeding off of. He seeks to rationalize his behavior by pretending that anyone who has money must have gotten it unethically or just got lucky.

The social welfare state actually feeds class warfare. The recipients of the wealth transfer in a social welfare state grow to hate the people who are providing the money they live on. For the welfare freeloader to acknowledge that he "depends on the kindness of strangers" would be humiliating. Most people will do anything to avoid humiliation. Most people choose hatred over humiliation. Welfare freeloaders do bite the hand that feeds them.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

Greece included, but I do not want America to end up like them and welfare is not the determining factor for a civilized country, no matter what political rule.

Somalia doesn't have a safety net, and i do not want America to end up like them.

So what was your point again?

[Doove]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

To compensate for these feelings of guilt, the welfare parasite demonizes the class of people blah blah blah

Read that a few times. It'll come to ya.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by Doove

Read that a few times. It'll come to ya.

I did read it (my comprehension level only requires reading it once though), and I apologize. I realize now I should have only given you, my pity.