the az law what you think

[MsElena]

DD,

Actually, it does bother me when certain races are profiled period. History has shown us one thing about the US, it also breeds people who become terrorists, I.E. McVie in OK City, OK.

[Cheyenna]

I see many mixed emotions.

I called my friend I went to school with, CC Goldwater, Barry's granddaughter, what her take is on all this but it seems that she is off someplace with Linda Ronstadt and I want Linda's opinion too, so once they call me and if they say I can, I will post what they say. (generalized, not verbatim) It will be interesting since we are all such an intergral part of AZ.

Many huge sporting events and conventions are pulling the plug, so there goes tourism and even more of what little economy we have. Watch for AZ ladies touring much more this summer. -a bonus for you guys! lol.

I am getting mail from people saying how proud they are of AZ and how they hope that their state follows suit, but there are many facets to this and as always some good, some bad.

Many are huge fans of Sheriff Joe ibut they do not see what we see here. He is a scary man and his goons are scarier. I do not know if you all keep up on it or not, but just google Joe Arpaio racial profiling. Or even just Joe Arpaio himself. He is a narcissistic pig, (and I do not mean "pig" in the hippie style cop reference) There are tons of cases against him from past years and MURDERS by his deputies where they took the liberty of beating illegals to death and not just a few... MANY. I have applauded Joe in earlier years for the stance he took on his jail, etc. but not long after we began to see the ogre in him little by little. I liken it to the family across the street that seems to be the perfect family. But behind those closed doors there is violence and abuse, and sometimes more so than you ever could have imagined.

I am thrilled that something is being done to police the illegals back to where they came from. I am not thrilled about the way it will be done, or the effect on the state economy wise.

...Then there is the matter of the "anchor babies" born here. THIS is what is killing states like AZ, CA, TX and the nation as a whole. No other nation on Earth stands for this. If you went to France on a visa and had a baby there, the French hospital would put "Nationality: American", and when your visa was up you and your AMERICAN child would have to go back home or be forcibly... removed by French authorities. There are as many as 726,000 illegal "anchor babies" born here every year--at a cost of over $8 billion annually, not to mention having devastating effects upon schools and hospitals in states like AZ.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4000446n

Deputies will still be shot, innocents will be too, as well as the ones being fired at. There will still be riots, only now, more so, and it is insane... It is truly hatred seething, and I am not for having the illegals here by any means, bu it is sad that it has goten so very out of hand and should have been CONTROLLED in the first place.

Many of the illegals (but no, not all) have brought decline by being here and using precious resources and trashing up the state. I have to add that there are legal residents that are in that same category though! Many are thieves and the gangs are violent and huge. Bars are on the windows of most homes as if we are all in jail. I am lucky to have lived in an area where I have not had to have that. I see it coming though, and recently got news that I have to move because the home I am in is sold... renting, arrrgghhh. The good part is I will get a place not so remote, but then I will need bars on my windows... I am even seriusly thinking that I may even leave AZ. A lot to think about there. I am a 4 gen native so this is not an easy choice. Anybody wanna adopt me? he hehe

This link is a modification to the passed law which brings some sanity to it, yet I can guarantee you that if you google "Joe Arpaio racial profiling" weekly, you will see NEW cases where they still DO.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/phoenixmetro/central/story/Governor-signs-several-changes-to-Arizona/qNpxW7Jonkm9shejhnkiSQ.cspx

So there is a big chunk of "news" and one opinion from me.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by nsafun05

One of the things that is being left out of this discussion is the fact that most of the Illegal immigrants are not coming to this county to become citizens but are in fact coming here because of the higher paying jobs. Lacrew 2000 had hit the nail on the head when he's referring to work visas and sponsor companies.

If we issue work visas to those who wish to work in this country where they'd be forced to pay taxes on their earnings, then I believe we'd see a drastic reduction of those wishing to cross our borders illegally. We'd also see a reduction in the government services that are being drained by illegals because we'd have the income tax money generated by documented workers to offset the use of these services. We'd also see less people using the resources of emergency rooms because the host companies would have to pay workman's comp insurance for their workers and perhaps even some kind of medical coverage......oh wait...Obamacare is going to take care of that so the U.S. tax payer would still have to pay for their health care.

I think many of you bring up very good issues- I think AZ could have come up with a better system than what they have place because what they have donme is pretty much angered a large percentage of the population. I like LaCrews' idea of issung out work vistas/perrmits because as he stated the vast majority are entering the country for better paying jobs. However, the U.S govt really needs to take a strance and strenghten our borders-it's easy to point fingers here and there, but the honest fact is if they are here ILLEGALLY than the should be deported, but I just don't believe in randomly pulling someone over because he/she looks liek an immigrant- I mean how does an immigrant look?
Right after 9--11 there were many people who felt it was ok to spy on muslims or racially profile them just so we don't re-live 9-11 over and of course i am personally against any kind of profile whatsoever or illegal unwarranted searches or wiretaps, etc. I have heard supporters of these actions say:" if you are not hiding anything or do anything wrong why would you care if the govt stops/questions or wiretaps your phone?" My immediate response was because I have privacy rights. I do expect Immigration reform to happen in 2011, but there must be a Bipartisian agreement and it will be a tough resolution to fix this problem and this should have been done a long time ago and no particular party is entirley at fault as both Republican and Democratic administration had chances to at least try to strengthen our borders- let's face it we are spending b illions on airline security to keep our planes safe, but let's face it what is stopping Al-queada from sending terrorist to Mexico to cross over into the United States and commit acts of terrorism??? Keep in mind that people from the middle east pretty much have the same skin tone and hair textures as hispanics from Mexico and other latino countries so it would not be hard for them to blend in.

[dirty dog]

McVie claimed his motivation was the government murder of the Branch Davidians in Waco. But I do understand and respect your position, but do we just let it contnue or do we as a nation say enough, there is a right way to enter this country. Anyway, for the record, I have no problem with Mexicans, Africans, Indians or any other culture, so please do not relate my position on the law as a view of my feelings on different cultures.

[Bartman1963]

Ok my analogy sucked. Give you that one Dirty. And AZ is pissed, I get that too. I have had similar classes in Race and Ethnic Relations, and what you state is correct.

Still, as responsible government, AZ's Governor and Statehouse have to think through the laws they pass more carefully than this one. It's going to be very difficult to enforce. There will be the added burden to the court system, and costs associated. It is a slippery slope they have placed themselves on.

A cop going up to someone and asking for their papers because of how they look is un-American. To me it smacks of the old USSR or Nazi Germany or some third world dictatorship. I think there has to be another way and those guys in AZ State government should have done better than this pants load of a law.

I haven't figured out yet who your Avatar is, but I will....

[dirty dog]

"A cop going up to someone and asking for their papers because of how they look is un-American. To me it smacks of the old USSR or Nazi Germany or some third world dictatorship. I think there has to be another way and those guys in AZ State government should have done better than this pants load of a law."

While I agree its not the best law available I have to keep pointing out that what you indicate above is not something the cops can legally do. There are very stringent probable cause requirements, in addition they cannot be stopped just because their hispanic they have to have had an additional violation before they can be stopped and then the officer must go through a list of criteria before they can ask for ID. If a man is out with his wife and children and is stopped, that would not be probable cause for checking everyones immigration status. Now if there were 8 people in the car and non of them can speak english then the officer would be with in rights to check them.

Although I have no factual knowledge, I believe that this law's purpose was to bring this issue to the public in the hopes of getting the federal government to get off its ass and do their job of protecting the borders.

[Guest052813-01]

I saw that the Arizona legislature has modified this law already, so that a request for identification or proof of legal residency can only be made if a law enforcement official has probable cause to come in contact with an individual. That is, the police can't just come up to someone who "looks" illegal and ask for ID - the police would have to have stopped someone for a traffic infraction or encounter the individual in an official matter (traffic accident, misdemeanor or felony investigation, etc.). It's a modification based on the concerns expressed in the last week (and expressed here by others).

Remember, too, that the US has had a history of "knee-jerk" reactions involving different races and nationalities. The most infamous was the incarceration of individuals of Asian descent during World War II, both citizens and non-citizens alike, including natural-born Americans. I had a great-uncle who changed his name from the German version of his last name to the English version during the rise of Nazis in Germany just so he could enlist in the Army (the rest of the family soon followed suit - even though they were all born in the US - just to avoid being blacklisted, ridiculed and otherwise harmed).

[dirty dog]

"I saw that the Arizona legislature has modified this law already, so that a request for identification or proof of legal residency can only be made if a law enforcement official has probable cause to come in contact with an individual. That is, the police can't just come up to someone who "looks" illegal and ask for ID - the police would have to have stopped someone for a traffic infraction or encounter the individual in an official matter (traffic accident, misdemeanor or felony investigation, etc.). It's a modification based on the concerns expressed in the last week (and expressed here by others)."

Isnt this what I have been saying all day...... LOL. Man, now I know no one listens to me.....

[Guest052813-01]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

"I saw that the Arizona legislature has modified this law already, so that a request for identification or proof of legal residency can only be made if a law enforcement official has probable cause to come in contact with an individual. That is, the police can't just come up to someone who "looks" illegal and ask for ID - the police would have to have stopped someone for a traffic infraction or encounter the individual in an official matter (traffic accident, misdemeanor or felony investigation, etc.). It's a modification based on the concerns expressed in the last week (and expressed here by others)."

Isnt this what I have been saying all day...... LOL. Man, now I know no one listens to me.....

Sorry, dd, for my excursion into the department of redunancy department.

[dirty dog]

No problem Fritz I am used to it, I am married.

[lacrew_2000]

I know somebody who is here legally, from India. He has been here for 11 years on various student and work visas, paid taxes, owns property, etc. He is brilliant, and has even worked for a defense contractor on high tech 'stuff'. His second work visa is about to expire, and he will have to leave now. He has a shot at gaining citizenship, if he pays an immigration attorney big money...and he is considering marrying his girlfriend...but odds are he will have to leave.

He refuses to just stay here illegally, because he doesn't want to break the law. I can see how it can be very frustrating to see an estimated 10-20 million illegal immigrants in this country, when honest people cannot legally immigrate. But it also shows how difficult it is to legally immigrate. If a guy with a masters degree and continuous work history cannot find a way or afford the cost, most Mexican immigrants can't either.

They are still going to come, though. There will never be a way to completely stop them. Might as well introduce some order, and let people in, and know something about them.

[dirty dog]

Lacrew, for the most part the are sourgenors, they just want to reap the benefits, get their money and then go home. Do you really think that opening up the immigration process will change a thing, I think it would be interesting to see how many immigrants that have been caught have actually applied for a visa.

[Cheaper2buyit]

the great usa was built on invaders boarder crossers, ocean crossers. and so on. So lets find a way to get taxes from them or fees or docs & call it a day. But the law in Az was ill written most laws are written with some vagueness so police won't get in trouble. Like in most states you don't have to show id unless in a car or on fed land so there gose that plus how many people on this board have had fake ids when they were kids just to get in clubs. nothing will work but troups on the boarder.

[dirty dog]

Cheaper you make this statement like the melting pot actually worked. Every immigrant culture that entered this country met with the same hostility, the Irish, chinese, germans, Italians, all of them. WHile you say that they were border crossers, maybe a few crossed over, but at no time in our history have their been the number of people crossing over the border illegally that this is now, and thats not counting all of the people who are staying here illegally because their visa's expired. Which was exactly the case of some of the hijackers on Sept 11, but I guess its been almost 10 years now and as long as they dont blow up something in KC were okay.

[Cheaper2buyit]

dirty thats why I moved here who wants to blow up cows & corn I feel safe here. I do feel bad about the native americans thou what do they have to say about all of this