Question: Corporal Punishment

[Katy Alexander]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

Not in favor of it in school - yeah, I know surprised everyone here. Truth is I don't hit my kids either, there are other ways to discipline them. My feeling is that hitting them teaches that violence can be ok and I would rather that is a lesson they not learn. Just my opinion.

I do not have children, but if I did I feel there has to be better ways of getting your point across.I could never imagine hitting a child, or an animal.It's degrading, and too many people do it when they are unable to control their temper.

The other reason for me is I consider spanking to be sexual foreplay , so to do that to a child is in my opinion just way too strange.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

I was spanked in school and I didn't grow up to be a mass murderer or serial killer.

And i wasn't spanked in school, but i didn't grow up to be an undisciplined vagrant. Nevertheless, i find myself going back and forth on this. On the one hand, i do think kids today are treated too delicately in many ways compared to when i was a kid. But on the other hand, I'd have a hard time spanking someone else's children - and not for fear of being sued. I just don't see it as my place in society and i doubt i'd see it as my place if i were a teacher.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

Slapping the kid with a paddle a couple of times becomes and easy way out for the kid.

Obviously you've never met my high school football coach.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Becky

too many people do it when they are unable to control their temper.

.

It should not be done in the heat of anger and certainly in a school setting be the sentencing part of some form of administrative hearing/discussion.

Originally Posted by Doove

Obviously you've never met my high school football coach.

No. Mine made me run to the point of vomit. I bet they would get along well. Usually it wasn't a football offense. Even that has come under scrutiny. [WTF can find you some links if need be]

[PSD]

I happen to be a very strong believer in corporal punishment. I was paddled both at home and at school and turned out to be a respectable person. With that said there are plenty of caveats...

First, the school should not be spanking children. That's the parents job. (see story below)

Second, never paddle a child out of anger. If the kid deserves a paddling, he also deserves it to be administered in a non-abusive way.

Third, if the kid threatens a phone call to the police, offer to dial it for them. Police aren't stupid and when they hear/see the truth, they'll know it. Again, NOT acting in anger will play a big part here. I actually had this happen. The police supervisor, after hearing what had happened, looked at my step-son and said "son, it sounds like you needed exactly what you got". Neither of the kids ever threatened to make that phone call again.

I helped raise my ex's 2 kids from the ages of 9 & 11. Despite the fact that they came out of an extremely unstructured environment, I only spanked each one once. The rest of the time though, they knew it was always an option they didn't want to explore!

So the school story....

In 8th and 9th grade, I attended an old junior high in a smallish town of about 40,000. Every afternoon, various coaches and male teachers would walk the halls and yank guys out of class for a SOLID paddling (5-6 "licks"). No reason was ever given, this was their "fun". The crafts teacher was always there with a freshly fabricated fiberglass paddle, cleanly drilled with various size holes to give it that "added touch", as well as polka dotting your ass! I'll tell ya this...I went home with a severely bruised ass many many times. It came to a head one morning when I was getting dressed for school and my mother walked in. Of course, she didn't believe that I really hadn't done anything, so off to the school we went to have a visit with the principal. A certain male science teacher was called in to explain, and well...since our family Dr. was also the Super of Schools, shit hit the fan and they never laid another hand on me. I will say this, the first few times I got paddled, I was the last one in line and was freakin' petrified...and every single paddling hurt like hell. I would never want my children or others to have to endure that. The pain could be excruciating at times.

Given the way the whole machismo/testosterone thing came into play, I'll say again, no CP in schools...too easy to get out of control...

And IMHO...spank your kids, but only when really necessary and with a calm head....it can be just as useful as any other form of punishment.

[Sisyphus]

Disclaimer: I have two children... pretty much grow'd now... 19 & 17. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used corporal punishment on them... combined. In retrospect, I probably could have & should have handled those circumstances another way.

Now, with that as background....

There's two issues here. First, should corporal punishment be used on children at all? Second, should corporal punishment be used on children by the school system?

With regard to the first question, I would answer, "yes", but my answer grows more hesitant all the time. Being a parent is a lot like being the chain of command in a branch of the military. The philosophy there is:

"We can't MAKE you do anything. BUT, we can sure as shit make you WISH you had!"

IOW, there ARE times in a child's development... particularly early on.... where it is important to establish that you - as a parent (aka, the authority figure) can and will exert physical dominion over the child to ensure immediate compliance with your directives. Corporal punishment has been the "traditional" method of doing so. It was - and is - still rather effective. It's just that I'm now thinking it's not necessary to strike a child to establish one's "quals" as a parent - that one can/will establish dominion when that is what the situation requires.

With regard to the second question... it comes down to whether or not the parent trusts the school to act as their agent in the ultimate act of physical dominion over a child. Knowing what I know about public & private school system officials... seeing what I've seen in the course of getting two kids (one girl & one boy) through both.... my answer tends to be "no." My message to the school system would be... If you're having trouble with my child in such a fundamental way that you wish to use corporal punishment, send him/her home with a full explanation of what has transpired. I'll handle it myself.

NOW, I understand that one of the myriad of problems school systems are wrestling with is that many parents don't look at things the way I do. In those situations, I'd suggest that the child be sent home until such time as the child is willing to comply with the behavior sought by the school and the parents are willing to be the ultimate agent of enforcement.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

NOW, I understand that one of the myriad of problems school systems are wrestling with is that many parents don't look at things the way I do. In those situations, I'd suggest that the child be sent home until such time as the child is willing to comply with the behavior sought by the school and the parents are willing to be the ultimate agent of enforcement.

Whether the school or the parent administers it, it should be with the parents' consent

[Sisyphus]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

Whether the school or the parent administers it, it should be with the parents' consent

Absolutely! Bottom line... the parents are responsible for the child's well being. No one should be laying hands on the child w/o their consent.

What I was trying to say was that I'm to the point where I'm uncomfortable with corporal punishment in most circumstances. I'll be damned if I want anyone else doing it w/o my consent.

[TexTushHog]

There has to be a more intelligent way to discipline kids. I think it possible to do it in a manner that doesn't damage kids, but that takes intelligence and judgment. I don't trust schools to use the discretion to do it the correct manner. And frankly, I doubt most parents have that much sense either. There's just too much potential for abuse and for idiots, thugs, and just plain mean and stupid people to fuck up kids' lives with corporal punishment. My parents used it very sparingly on me. Schools never did because I was largely a good kid and came from a middle class white family (which in our small town, pretty much insulated you form that sort of thing unless you were a big troublemaker). But I did see other parents who were abusive and school personnel who were either abusive, stupid about it (or both).

[Rudyard K]

Probably no suprise here...I do believe in corporal punishment...on boys. I used it liberally on my boys, and it was used liberally on my brother and I (by both my parents and the schools).

But I do only believe it should be spanking or licks (as we used to call it). Such punsihment is swift, it is sure...but prehaps most important, it is over once administered. The slate has been cleared.

But it is never coming back. There are too many folks who don't want it administered on their kids. It is my opinion that its ommission today is at least partially responsible for the things that get out of hand at our schools (such as all the bullying stuff) today. Instead of giving the kid some licks, regardless of whether he is judicially convcited or not, the schools are forced to prove some misdoing to support some longer term punsihment in the face of his parents requiring proof. I actually got 5 licks when I was a kid (around 12 years old) for publically picking on another boy. I thought it was a raw deal. I did pcik on him, but, of course, didn't think I had done so excessively. But it didn't matter, by the time anyone (like parents) could have intervened, it was over and done with. I'm over 50 now and still remember it. But I remember it as something tha taught me not to do that...not as some scarring event.

[atlcomedy]

Is eccie.net going to institute CP?

I think I'd make the list. I do have some suggestions/requests on who and how it should be administered.

[WTF]

I think they ought to whip those kids ass from the minute they get there till the time they leave school. LOL

Where I went to school the kids that did not need their ass beat hardly ever got it. If I got a ass whipping at school my parents made sure to give me another one when I got home. Wasn't no doubt who was in charge at my school. That IMHO is a good thing.

I learned early on to take my medicine if I really thought it was worth it, I did what I wanted and then bent over and took my lickings with a smile.