Gentlemen That Use Me For A Ref. Just A Heads Up

[China Doll]

Well put, my dear. Hopefully people will realize where you are coming from.

[atlcomedy]

To Kaci & China: I have been nothing but respectful in my comments. I have asked for clarification on the purpose of this forum. If I am wrong I will apologize.

My POV is Kaci screwed up when she started the thread and opened herself up for general discussion. China Doll as much as admitted she thinks the original post was ill advised. Reread the thread, I'm not the bad guy here.....

& Kaci re: your last remark:

But you are somebody i have NEVER met nor exchanged any kind of contact with at all so why do you feel the need to discuss anything about how i run my bussiness?

The answer is you started a thread about this on an open discussion board. Do you get that? You started it...

I didn't start a thread that said "I hear Kaci Snow is doing xyz...regarding references...."

I responded to your thread.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by China Doll

I don't think that we need to tear Kaci apart to determine every single detail of her business practices.

Coming from an angle other than what information she keeps or doesn't keep.....

First, i don't think anyone is trying to tear Kaci apart here China Doll. But more importantly, being one who has defended you and your right to hold to one of your more controversial business practices, i'd say you had a point.....if i were to categorize this as simply a business practice of hers. Personally, i view it more as a courtesy than a business practice. Splitting hairs, perhaps, but a decision regarding her business practice is something that would have a potential impact on her business, either positively or negatively. Deciding when you will and will not provide a reference is something that impacts her hardly at all, but impacts her clients and, dare i say, other providers to a greater extent. And negatively so.

I don't pretend to have much insight into the issues you providers have to face. But from a provider's perspective, i can say this with relative confidence. If you're going to request that other girls act as a reference for your safety, you should be pretty liberal in offering to act as a reference for their safety. And if someone puts in place a pretty stringent set of rules that says she won't be so liberal and forthcoming, i don't think it's out of bounds to suggest she explain why that is.

Perhaps her reasons are entirely logical and above board. Not having faith that guys can be trusted to be the same person/client they were 3-1/2 months ago is one thing. But it's quite another to accept a 4, 5, even 6 month old reference from another girl, while refusing to provide a 4 month old reference to that same girl. Wouldn't you agree? Perhaps you can enlighten me on a fair reason for that since, like i say, i don't pretend to have your expertise on this matter. But to an outsider, it looks like little more than an effort to protect one's client base for herself after offering a bare minimum.

That's my trying to look at it from a provider's perspective. From a client's perspective, please realize that 3 months is not a very long time. Many hobbyists don't hobby weekly, or even monthly. 6 times in the last 26 months for me. Do the math. In that time, I've seen 3 girls, which is to say i've seen 1 of them 4 times. Now, let's suppose the 4th time was in December. If she were to tell me today that she wouldn't be a reference for me unless i saw her again because i hadn't seen her in 4 months, i'm pretty sure i'd know what to think.

[Kaci Snow]

Thats the problem YOU responed to something about my bussiness without knowing anything about me. I did not ask you really. I know just were i posted as i said i travel all over the USA so no i dont think that i should have to go post in every forum for every city that i have seen a guy. Im done with this its aparent that you DONT GET THE POST. It was not intended for you to disrespect me which is just what you have done. Its guys like you that make the ladies hate responding or starting anything in any co-ed. Guys like you are the reason I personaly do not post in co-ed in any section unless i really feel the need to. My SO nor anybody eles disrespects me and thinks that im pose to take it light hearted not even YOU.Im done and i have reported this to the mods. As far as i can see you like to talk alot 764 post scence April 5 thats an average of 58.7 post a day . Really do you not have anything better to do than disrespect the ladies?

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Kaci Snow

As far as i can see you like to talk alot 764 post scence April 5 thats an average of 58.7 post a day .

Honest mistake, i'm sure Kaci, but that's April 5 of 2009.

[Kaci Snow]

Guys in order for me to keep the other ladies of this and other sites safe it is my job to give GOOD and RELIABLE ref. People can change overnight. I do NOT feel that its safe for me to give a ref. of a guy i have seen longer than 3 monthes ago. This is a crazy world we live in and i for one dont want to be the casue of giving a bad ref. and something happening to somebody that i care about. ( being a provider is like a sisterhood and we take that seriously) You can agree or disagree this is how i am handling my bussiness.

[Kaci Snow]

Opps. Sorry i do see that now it was 2009 . But my point still stands.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Kaci Snow

People can change overnight. I do NOT feel that its safe for me to give a ref. of a guy i have seen longer than 3 monthes ago.

If that's your reasoning, then ok. Anything further from me would just circle back to my original post in this thread so i won't press any further.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time Kaci. While i've only read a few posts of yours up to this point, one in particular makes me wish you were local because i'd be interested in seeing you.

Now China, on the other hand, is relatively local, but i fear she may just be wayyyyyy too intellectual for me.

[China Doll]

You guys are intelligent enough to know that the purpose of Kaci’s post was informative in nature. Pretending not to know this because of the posting place is ludicrous.

Doove, thank you for presenting your viewpoints so perfectly and respectfully! Your post was a breath of fresh air. I would like to address some things.

Originally posted by Doove:
“First, i don't think anyone is trying to tear Kaci apart here China Doll. But more importantly, being one who has defended you and your right to hold to one of your more controversial business practices, i'd say you had a point.....if i were to categorize this as simply a business practice of hers. Personally, i view it more as a courtesy than a business practice. Splitting hairs, perhaps, but a decision regarding her business practice is something that would have a potential impact on her business, either positively or negatively. Deciding when you will and will not provide a reference is something that impacts her hardly at all, but impacts her clients and, dare i say, other providers to a greater extent. And negatively so.”

If that is your definition of a business practice, then I still believe that this applies. Different clients would be comfortable with different things as far as record-keeping. If a lady told the whole forum, for instance, that she kept phone numbers and names, the page would explode with enraged men. Look at the implications that some of the men here have made…do you really feel that this could not affect her business? No matter what a lady’s practice is, someone will have a problem with it and make a big stink.
Also, I’m going to have to disagree with you about one thing: her new policy may be there to protect providers. I can’t get into details, obviously, but I know of formerly good men who turned bad in a matter of a few months. I have firsthand experience with this.

“I don't pretend to have much insight into the issues you providers have to face. But from a provider's perspective, i can say this with relative confidence. If you're going to request that other girls act as a reference for your safety, you should be pretty liberal in offering to act as a reference for their safety. And if someone puts in place a pretty stringent set of rules that says she won't be so liberal and forthcoming, i don't think it's out of bounds to suggest she explain why that is.”

But this post wasn’t to the providers, was it? How do you know what she has said to the ladies?

“Perhaps her reasons are entirely logical and above board. Not having faith that guys can be trusted to be the same person/client they were 3-1/2 months ago is one thing. But it's quite another to accept a 4, 5, even 6 month old reference from another girl, while refusing to provide a 4 month old reference to that same girl. Wouldn't you agree? Perhaps you can enlighten me on a fair reason for that since, like i say, i don't pretend to have your expertise on this matter. But to an outsider, it looks like little more than an effort to protect one's client base for herself after offering a bare minimum.”
I don’t want to delve into this too much because I don’t like playing guessing games about people right in front of them. What I will say is that a few reasons do come to mind. All of them center around the idea that people are often willing to take more risk for themselves than they are for others. Not that I would ever compromise my safety or anyone else’s, but I would rather that I run into a bad situation as a result of my actions than have someone else experience the same fate as a result of my actions. For all we know, something may have happened!

Having said that, thank you for explaining what it looks like to some of you without accusation. Fresh air!

“That's my trying to look at it from a provider's perspective. From a client's perspective, please realize that 3 months is not a very long time. Many hobbyists don't hobby weekly, or even monthly. 6 times in the last 26 months for me. Do the math. In that time, I've seen 3 girls, which is to say i've seen 1 of them 4 times. Now, let's suppose the 4th time was in December. If she were to tell me today that she wouldn't be a reference for me unless i saw her again because i hadn't seen her in 4 months, i'm pretty sure i'd know what to think.”

But that hasn’t happened, has it? This is all speculation. Speculation that she is keeping identifying information about her clients, speculation as to why she is making this decision, speculation that she is trying to keep clients to herself. All of this open, public speculation because she wanted to be upfront about her decision so that the men can make an informed choice. Tsk tsk!

The last thing I would like to say here is that Kaci is right about some of the women not wanting to post in Co-ed for this reason. I think that we should all try to be respectful of each other, hobbyist and provider alike. You know what I don’t like? I don’t like that this board has two sides. Shouldn’t we all be on the same side?

Note to Doove: If you ever do decide that you are intelligent enough to meet with me, you will be punished for your insolence!

[shooter6.5]

other than to argue it is going no where.

Kaci, your point is noted

and this one is closed