Trafficking

[bartipero]

For whatever reason, when someone engages you in debate addressing you only as "Devlin" it just cracks me up. If it's a hot debate, I picture a black and white scene where Edward G Robinson turns with a burning stogey in between his right middle and index fingers and with partially outstretched arm points to the viewer and says, "Devlin, you dirty rat [then whatever accusation or comment of the moment]." Or in this case, again a black and white scene, only Humphrey Bogart casually pours himself a drink from a glass decanter sitting on a nearby credenza then turns to the viewer, glass in hand and says, "Devlin, I'm curious... Johnny wrote the rest. Great dialogue, all triggered by the Devlin reference, but to work it one has to hear it in their head in their voice. Now I didn't think of this before, but maybe the response would be good in Betty Davis' character. You could do worse. lol

[Guest121212]

If you look up "surreal" at Wikipedia, there's a link to the last third of this thread . . .




Now you wait and watch, bart, someone will actually look it up and accuse me of lying, as the fucking link won't be there (obviously) . . .

[bartipero]

"Devlin, you dirty rat" ... That it is.

[Guest121212]

Originally Posted by bartipero

That it is.

Surreal? Yeah . . .

[MsElena]

Originally Posted by Jackie Devlin

I don't/didn't feel Sens was addressing me, I believe he was pointing to MsElena and her occasional booking of ladies she brings with her on tour from Omaha, etc. - however, to the casual reader, I didn't want his comment to be construed as reflective of my behavior (or the facts) since, as I mentioned, I had posted in the thread.

Whether he was talking about me or anyone else, he should've just put it out there instead of "hinting" to it.

I've brought two ladies to KC with me, in which both were booking their own sessions. Yes, we offered doubles, but I didn't realize that booking a double constituted mentoring. I must revisit the meaning of a doubles session.

I have helped two ladies who made the decision to get into the business on their own. They came to me for help with screening and advertising after they knew they wanted to become a hooker. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's totally different from introducing them into the business AKA turning them out, no?

When they came to me, I helped and wanted nothing in return except that they stay safe. I'd rather they get the help from me or any other provider in how to do a proper screening, learning the laws, getting references and how to handle themselves during a session instead of a hobbyist. My reason for that......a hobbyist who decides to turn a girl out or "mentor" her is doing it for his own gain whether he realizes it or not. At some point the lady is going to feel indebted to him and feel that she needs to give him something for what he's done for her. The hobbyist will gladly take a freebie, discount, extended time, etc.



So, yeah...I guess I'm a horrible person for helping them to make the most of their time spent with the client, to keep from being arrested and to keep themselves safe.

[JS42]

Originally Posted by MsElena

Gee, I wonder if the "mentors" in KC/on this board ever think that'll happen to them. The arrest part of course.

Maybe because you were also "hinting" in the above quote?

[MsElena]

JS,

I don't know of any mentors with the exception of maybe LoveWomen. And that's only because he admitted to "mentoring" her to a point.

People talk, but you never know what's true or not.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by Sens55

I think it's funny that one particular provider never fails to take jabs at guys for "mentoring", even though they've done the same...and more. OF course, the provider in question can always just say they were "booking doubles". So when a guy finds a girl and introduces her to the business he's an asshole that's manipulating the girl. But when a provider does it, she's just helping out....OK. Sure.

I am not saying mentoring is right or wrong, what I am saying and I cannot say it anymore clearly is that it is dangerous. You do not have any idea who the girl is connected with which could lead you to be pissing on the wrong somebodys shoe. I know that in some cities (not KC), such as Chicago and NY you may be trying to mentor a woman who's "pimp" is connected to organized crime, its a very big revenue stream for OC, in KC you are very likely to find that the girls are connected to gang members or just serious thugs. Most of you guys are middle class office types who may think your tough and you may be in your world but the criminal world is a whole different animal. One other thing, I dont think that most of you that "mentor" do so with the idea that your going to "pimp" the girl out and make $ for yourselves, rather you do it because you hope it will lead to free pussy and a friends with bennefits situation, it very seldom does as most of the time the ladies never forget its a business even if they act and say thats its not.

[guest010313]

Originally Posted by Sens55

I think it's funny that one particular provider never fails to take jabs at guys for "mentoring", even though they've done the same...and more. OF course, the provider in question can always just say they were "booking doubles". So when a guy finds a girl and introduces her to the business he's an asshole that's manipulating the girl. But when a provider does it, she's just helping out....OK. Sure.

I'm going to continue to bring this up because I guess it hasn't made an impact. Your version of "helping" included telling me there was no way I could charge as much as the agency was. Self serving much?

[Allie_Kat]

I think a lot of times when providers help other ladies out, it's because they're our friends who want to give this lifestyle a shot. In my case, this would be A LOT. LOL.
I've never asked for ANYTHING in return. Not a favor, not a cent.
I think the MAJORITY of clients who "mentor" girls are doing it to get some sort of kickback or discount.

[JS42]

Originally Posted by Allie_Kat

I think the MAJORITY of clients who "mentor" girls are doing it to get some sort of kickback or discount.

I would never try to mentor a girl. But playing devils advocate. If the guy and girl have an arrangement for kickbacks, discounts, or freebies, that both are cool with. What's the problem? It's a consensual agreement.

Just seems whenever these 3 things are brought up by the women here, it's always under the cloud that the guy is an asshole trying to take advantage of her.

Edit: I can understand the kickback part being uncool, but what about the other two?

[Guest102513-1]

Right on JS42. Of course there are situations where a guy's mentoring is just asking for trouble....see recent situation for LW, won't list all the reasons in those situations.

But I do find it funny, how with some of the ladies, when it comes to "mentoring". it seems...Man=evil, Woman=good.

Like JS42 states, if there is an arrangement...and both sides are cool with it, it does become consensual. And quite frankly, it is no outsiders' business to pass judgement.

Not all situations are where one party (or even both) are trying to "play" the other. And it is those situations, where we never hear anything about (as it should be).

I wonder how Adam felt, after Eve's mentoring him on that darn apple tasting thing, lol

P.s....like JS42, personally I would not attempt to mentor for a variety of reasons....i.e. knowledge of the business side, availabiltiy of my time, opportunities, etc etc..

But I agree with JS42, let's not make this a black or white situation

[MsElena]

If its a consensual agreement, there's nothing wrong with it. But, in most cases there's no agreement made and the guys are expecting a discount, freebie or as Allie put it, a kickback. Not once have I heard of a consensual agreement to this day.

I don't see it as hobbyist mentoring evil and provider mentoring good, I see it as stupid and smart. One wrong move by the hobbyist and the cops get you for pandering. Do you know where that fine line is?

I'll play devils advocate too. Do the hobbyists know everything about hobby? Do they know the best sites to advertise on? Would he be able to set up a decent price structure that is going to be to the advantage of the lady and not just the guys? Do they know the best times to her to work? Toys? Lingerie? Hotels? Supplies? Pics? Are they going to ask other ladies to work doubles with her? Will he be able to tell her the best way to handle a drunk client? A client who is pissed? A client who is disappointed? Does the guy know about the laws and city ordinances? And the list goes on and on and on.

As Allie stated about herself, I helped those ladies because I wanted to and asked nothing in return.

[Allie_Kat]

If it's an agreement or arrangement between two individuals there is nothing wrong with it, that is after all what this hobby world is about, but if it's a guy that's taking control of the girl and making her think that she is worth less than she is charging or leading her astray for his own personal gain, that's not cool. And I have NEVER heard of a client mentoring a provider where it DIDN'T end up going badly for both of them.
And of course, sometimes providers are shady too. I'm not going to discount the endless threads of doom with girls who are only in it for the money and don't care about hurting clients or other providers.

[Guest102513-1]

Well first off, I have known several situations where a guy(s) have provided valuable intell to help a lady break into the hobby...and it all worked out fine. And of course I have also known of situations (granted the more often, but not exclusive) where things went poorly.

MsElena makes good points about knowing how the business side works. Would I know how to handle or teach the points she mention....nope, that's why I would never put myself into a mentor's role. But do I think that knowledge is limited to only a lady not a man...absolutely not!

Now, would I agree that typically an experienced provider would far more likely know about that stuff, of course. But over the years, I have also met a select number of guys who would fill that role, just as adequately...and in some cases, better, than many providers.

Also when I say "the guy" knew how the hobby works as well as many providers. This is not meant to be a slam at providers such as Jackie, Allie, MsElena and SG. IMO, these ladies know their stuff. But there are plenty of examples (nope, not mentioning any names, lol) gals who feel they could/have play that role...that would not meet the points MsElena posted.

And the fact that a guy would mentor a gal, with the expectation of getting some type of personal gain. Well of course. The key being a very open understanding by two people.

I am sure, most ladies are not mentoring purely from the goodness of their heart. Anymore than when I used to provide financial consulting, roughly 187 years ago, did I do it, purely from a goodness standpoint. I have no doubt, the ladies are doing it for their own reasons as well....and there is nothing evil or stupid about that at all.

As far as MsElena stating it is not good vs evil, but stupid vs smart, base strictly on man/woman....now, now...let's not be hating