The Killing of Pat Tillman

[oralick]

It is true that "friendly fire" is always a danger in war. But it would not be beyond the Administration that "outed" an American CIA agent to punish her husband, to have Tillman eliminated. He was much more of an asset having died as a "War Hero", than having lived to say "This Is Bullshit" about the War in Iraq. And some of those guys would obviously operate at that level.

[stealthyguy]

oralick,

I don't know what color the sky is in your reality, but Ranger units are not directed in combat by political leaders. It is clear that a fellow Ranger shot Tillman due to mistaken identity and "the fog of war". Are you implying that a Specialist 4 in a Ranger battalion had direct links to GW? It's idiotic to even suggest that boots on the ground can somehow be "influenced" by the GW's and Chaneys of the world. Get a grip on rality. This is a case of mistaken identity followed by a dumb cover up by the leadership. This is not an assassination by some lowly SP4 in a Ranger unit who somehow had connections to the very top.

I just don't understand how people don't have the ability to distinguish fantasy like Rambo, Jason Bourne and James Bond with reality.

[DTorrchia]

While anything is theoretically "possible", a careful review of all the evidence clearly tends to point to a tragic friendly fire incident.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by stealthyguy

oralick,


I just don't understand how people don't have the ability to distinguish fantasy like Rambo, Jason Bourne and James Bond with reality.

Because Ranger, many of them simply haven't been there. They've never had a shot fired at them in anger, some have never served in the military period. It's difficult for some to understand situations like this if they've never been exposed to the chaos that can ensue during firefights.

[stealthyguy]

Agreed DTorrchia,

BTW, thanks for your follow-up on all this. Your information is sound and convincing and should clear the air to those willing to look at the facts.

[theaustinescorts]

The fog of war story is a nice cover, but it doesn't address the specific credibility issues I've raised previously.

It's nice for someone to say they were a Ranger, but unless you're prepared to counter the specific credibility issues involved then being Ranger has no point.

Why did they destroy his diary?

I repeat....

Why did they destroy his diary?

ps...
"He led from the front" is a cliche no Ranger would ever use.

All Rangers are aggressive and they require no one to lead them from the front.

The fact that you would say that is suspicious franky.

I'm learning to be suspicious of anyone here claiming military experience when they have a military-type avatar.

Real operators don't wear their background on their sleeve like that.

Real operators are discreet and quiet about what they've done.

[stealthyguy]

Let me put it this way, we can probably assume that his diary only had personal rants about how he disagreed with the war in Iraq. It's not like the diary he carried had some secrets about how Bush and OBL were cousins or something like that. You see where I'm going with this? His diary was probably destroyed so that the politicians could take full credit for this heroes death without risking his parents publishing information that would discredit what the Bush administration claimed--mainly that Pat Tillman agreed with Bush's politics.

That's it...Pretty simple and straightforward. It was a political move to glorify a guy who wanted no part of glorifying the Bush administration.

[Guest020612]

I agree with this statement 100%. Commanders get crazy after bad things happen. Tillman didn't want fame, he wanted to serve.

Originally Posted by stealthyguy

As a former Ranger, I take offense to your irresponsible conspiracy theory allegations. I know Rangers who were there that evening. It was dusk and visibility was horrible. One Ranger swears to me that they were under a mortar attack. This is a classic mistaken identity in what we call "the fog of war".

Furthermore, Ranger Tillman was highly respected by his fellow Rangers. He lead by example and never used his celebrity status to not carry his load. There are many Rangers out there who are not religious--including myself. If you do your job, no one holds that against you. Ranger Tillman was NEVER considered a "buddy fucker"--one of our favorite terms for slackers who don't carry their load.

As to how the chain of command tried to cover this up, I agree that it was wrong. But you don't hold the boots on the ground fighting our wars responsible for what those looking for political gains out of this tragedy. The tragedy is that we lost a great Ranger. The travesty is that those in charge lied about how it happened.

BTW, friendly fire accidents happen more than you may expect. In fact training deadly accidents are so common in the Ranger Regiment that if you go to the Ranger memorials there are almost as many deaths from training as there are from combat. I was just at the 1st Ranger Bn memorial and noticed that both training and combat deaths were honored there.

If you've never been there, please refrain from falsely accusing those who have dared to be there!!!

Rangers Lead the Way

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by stealthyguy

Let me put it this way, we can probably assume that his diary only had personal rants about how he disagreed with the war in Iraq. It's not like the diary he carried had some secrets about how Bush and OBL were cousins or something like that. You see where I'm going with this? His diary was probably destroyed so that the politicians could take full credit for this heroes death without risking his parents publishing information that would discredit what the Bush administration claimed--mainly that Pat Tillman agreed with Bush's politics.

That's it...Pretty simple and straightforward. It was a political move to glorify a guy who wanted no part of glorifying the Bush administration.

Not possible.

His diary was destroyed IMMEDIATELY after he was killed.

There was no time to analyize it, forward the info up the chain, and then wait for a sinister decision, and then rely on his buddies to carry out such a horrible decision.

The circumstances indicate that the content of the diary was known in advance.

Furthermore the soldiers I've known and worked with would never carry out such an order!

To cover-up someone's personal documents like personal mail, diaries, etc. right after he's been killed is BEYOND THE PALE.

The immediate destruction of the diary tells volumns not only about the motives of the brass hats who ordered him assassinated, but also the hatred his killers had for him.

The cowards who killed him viewed him as a liberal Noam Chomsky-reading subversive in their ranks who was waiting to get out and tell the world that the whole mission was FUBAR.

As we know some people will do anything if they think someone among them isn't on the same patriotic team.

[stealthyguy]

theaustinescorts,

You really are a nut job. First of all, I don't know what you mean by "lead from the front" garbage you are spewing. "Rangers lead the way" is one of the Ranger mottoes--look it up. The other motto being "Sua Sponte" which means of your own accord. For you to make generalized statements about how all Rangers are aggressive leads me to believe you really don't know much about the military. Ranger Battalions--like most combat units--have classic military structure. There are privates in the 75th Regiment who just made the battalion and have limited experience. They tend to follow those with considerably more experience and those who have been to Ranger school--usually after 6 to 9 months of serving in a Ranger unit.

This is my last post here as I find this discussion on a web site most pointless. I think those who read this should just user your sound reasoning and judgement to reach a practical and realistic conclusion.

[stealthyguy]

One last point,

One with a couple of brain cells could easily assume the diary contained criticism of the war in Iraq. You don't have to send it to Langley to arrive at that conclusion......


BTW, my avatar refers to my user name on this web site.....1 plus one equals 2?

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by stealthyguy

theaustinescorts,

You really are a nut job. First of all, I don't know what you mean by "lead from the front" garbage you are spewing. "Rangers lead the way" is one of the Ranger mottoes--look it up. The other motto being "Sua Sponte" which means of your own accord. For you to make generalized statements about how all Rangers are aggressive leads me to believe you really don't know much about the military. Ranger Battalions--like most combat units--have classic military structure. There are privates in the 75th Regiment who just made the battalion and have limited experience. They tend to follow those with considerably more experience and those who have been to Ranger school--usually after 6 to 9 months of serving in a Ranger unit.

This is my last post here as I find this discussion on a web site most pointless. I think those who read this should just user your sound reasoning and judgement to reach a practical and realistic conclusion.

The fact that you resort instantly to this kind of childish name calling points to the fact that you are not a professional soldier.

Real professional soldiers don't express themselves that way or have such an immature comportment.

Real professional soldiers are quiet, slow to anger, and confident in themselves.

They do not boast regarding their valor like you are doing.

You are too insecure to be a Ranger.

[stealthyguy]

....I thought you said all Rangers were aggressive?!

Your quote: "All Rangers are aggressive and they require no one to lead them from the front"

You really are out there. Your generalizations about personalities of soldiers based on what unit they serve in lead me to believe you get all your opinions from watching too many movies. Quit posing, you are flirting with braking "Stolen Valor" law.

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by stealthyguy

....I thought you said all Rangers were aggressive?!

Your quote: "All Rangers are aggressive and they require no one to lead them from the front"

You really are out there. Your generalizations about personalities of soldiers based on what unit they serve in lead me to believe you get all your opinions from watching too many movies. Quit posing, you are flirting with braking "Stolen Valor" law.

As for posing I've already challenged D'Torchia to speak with one of my former employers, a retired CIA Station Chief, to verify I worked for him.

If you want you can be there also.

I doubt you or D'Torchia will show up though because it has to be in front of an attorney and you'll have to agree to retract you're accusations that I'm "posing" LOL.

ps...
Rangers are aggressive in their combat with the enemy, not blowhards who anger easily when hiding behind anonymous handles.

Some Rangers are however bad guys, like the ones who murdered Tillman...you could be one of those.

[DTorrchia]

The "meltdown" of TAE continues. He attacks another Vet. TAE, by my last count, there's about 2,000 plus people here on Eccie Austin who've watched your posts over the last few weeks become more and more erratic. Maybe it's the pressure from what's hanging over your head legal wise, maybe it's because people are starting to call you out more on your BS. Whatever it is, it's fun to watch and I can only imagine how many people are scratching their heads, wondering if the next time they want to see a provider, should they really trust to call an agency run by a guy like you?!!