Since Obamacare’s Passage, Millions Have Lost Employer-Sponsored Health Insurance

[CuteOldGuy]

Doove, you have to start paying attention.

Mods, can we start a slow thread for people like Doove? He has a lot of trouble following what goes on here.

Just tryin' to help you out, Doove.

[blue3122]

Personally, I am finding Obamacare to be useful already. I rent contractors to companies. Companies are cutting headcounts and adding contractors. I asked my largest customer why they were doing this. Was it the overall state of the economy? No. Was it a change in their business model? No. Obamacare? Yes. They have no idea what the final outcome is going to be. They pay a lot for services in Washington to tell them what it might cost. They had about 3000 employees and 100 contractors prior to passage. Now they are at 1800 employees and 1500 contractors. Actually they have grown about 6% in headcount but dropped 1200 employees. Their latest estimate is Obamacare will cost them an additional $6Milion per year with 1800 employees. They plan on dropping all the way down to 1000 employees by the end of 2012 when they figure they will start paying. Temporarily good for my business. Long term, bad for everyone.

[CuteOldGuy]

Thanks for your perspective, Blue. It's nice to hear from somebody on that side of the issue.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Doove, you have to start paying attention.

Mods, can we start a slow thread for people like Doove? He has a lot of trouble following what goes on here.

Just tryin' to help you out, Doove.

Sarcasm works better when there's some truth to it. So try again.

[Whirlaway]

Obamacare is the 1st step to national single payer system. It is always been the goal of Obama to have European style single payer health care.

Originally Posted by blue3122

Personally, I am finding Obamacare to be useful already. I rent contractors to companies. Companies are cutting headcounts and adding contractors. I asked my largest customer why they were doing this. Was it the overall state of the economy? No. Was it a change in their business model? No. Obamacare? Yes. They have no idea what the final outcome is going to be. They pay a lot for services in Washington to tell them what it might cost. They had about 3000 employees and 100 contractors prior to passage. Now they are at 1800 employees and 1500 contractors. Actually they have grown about 6% in headcount but dropped 1200 employees. Their latest estimate is Obamacare will cost them an additional $6Milion per year with 1800 employees. They plan on dropping all the way down to 1000 employees by the end of 2012 when they figure they will start paying. Temporarily good for my business. Long term, bad for everyone.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by Doove

Sarcasm works better when there's some truth to it. So try again.

Just read it s l o w l y Doove, you will understand. Someone help the man out here. This is sad. There is help, Doove. You can overcome this disablility.

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by blue3122

Personally, I am finding Obamacare to be useful already. I rent contractors to companies. Companies are cutting headcounts and adding contractors. I asked my largest customer why they were doing this. Was it the overall state of the economy? No. Was it a change in their business model? No. Obamacare? Yes. They have no idea what the final outcome is going to be. They pay a lot for services in Washington to tell them what it might cost. They had about 3000 employees and 100 contractors prior to passage. Now they are at 1800 employees and 1500 contractors. Actually they have grown about 6% in headcount but dropped 1200 employees. Their latest estimate is Obamacare will cost them an additional $6Milion per year with 1800 employees. They plan on dropping all the way down to 1000 employees by the end of 2012 when they figure they will start paying. Temporarily good for my business. Long term, bad for everyone.

I talk to early-stage VCs all the time, and many of them are affected by exactly these concerns. No one has any idea what the mandates are likely to cost in the long run -- or, for that matter, whether the health care law will survive more or less intact. One obviously tends to be reticent to hire new workers when the 5-10 year costs are unknown. This adds to what we sometimes refer to as the "overhang of uncertainty" facing our economy. Why this apparently seems so mysterious to policymakers is a mystery in and of itself.

Until recently, owners of small and medium-sized businesses generally have tended not to say such things, but some have opined that we'd actually be better off with some sort of single-payer health care plan if it were implemented effectively. At least that way, smaller firms would be able to compete with their larger competitors on more equal terms.

For the last few decades, smaller firms have been responsible for most net new job creation in the U.S. Erecting impediments to their prospects for success doesn't seem like much of a way to take steps toward putting unemployed Americans back to work.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Just read it s l o w l y Doove, you will understand. Someone help the man out here. This is sad. There is help, Doove. You can overcome this disablility.

Nope. Keep tryin'. We're all rootin' for ya!

[CuteOldGuy]

Doove, this thread is about the debacle of Obamacare, not about you. I'm going to get back on track, and let you do what you think and want. TTFN.



I think Blue makes an excellent point from the health insurance provider point of view. The SCOTUS is going to hear arguments on this in March, and reach a decision probably in June, 2012. This will be interesting.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Spoken like a true Marxist.

If you feel you have a responsibility for others, then YOU do it! Don't come to me and demand MY money by force to fund causes YOU think are important. Liberals are so morally superior to the rest of us, that they think THEY can decide what I should pay for.

I'm afraid that's a little bit hard to do. Many states/cities pay their basic schools out of property tax, so should I refuse that part because I have no kids?
Part of my tax money goes to my neighbors child tax credit, is that fair?
Part of my tax money finances war, but I'm against war, is that fair?

C'mon, it's impossible and you know it.

I think it would be really good if EVERYONE had to experience a few months how it is to be poor, maybe that would open some eyes and maybe you would understand the lucky circumstances if you are not poor and just can do what you want.
I totally agree that I don't want my money go to waste, like paying for $16 muffins at Government lunches, but if it is spend for the right cause, yes I'm willing to pay my share.

And I think it is a blessing that I'm able to do that without any problems.

And NO! I'm not a communist. maybe it is just that I am not as greedy as I should be in this country.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by blue3122

They had about 3000 employees and 100 contractors prior to passage. Now they are at 1800 employees and 1500 contractors. Actually they have grown about 6% in headcount but dropped 1200 employees.

Maybe i'm misunderstanding, but if i've got this right:

A company that employs 3000 people doesn't provide health insurance? Ok.

And because of Obamacare, that company went from 3100 people doing the work to.....3300 people doing the work? And that's a bad thing?

3300 people that, i'm assuming, will all have health care?

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Doove, this thread is about the debacle of Obamacare, not about you. I'm going to get back on track, and let you do what you think and want. TTFN.

Setting the rules COG, whether out of convenience to you or not, means you should probably abide by them.

I think Blue makes an excellent point from the health insurance provider point of view.

And i think Captainmidnight made an excellent point about single payer.

The SCOTUS is going to hear arguments on this in March, and reach a decision probably in June, 2012. This will be interesting.

Holy shit! We agree on something.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by waverunner234

Many states/cities pay their basic schools out of property tax, so should I refuse that part because I have no kids? No, but I would support legislation repealing property tax.
Part of my tax money goes to my neighbors child tax credit, is that fair? No, why should you subsidize their family?
Part of my tax money finances war, but I'm against war, is that fair? No, it's not.

C'mon, it's impossible and you know it. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

I think it would be really good if EVERYONE had to experience a few months how it is to be poor, maybe that would open some eyes and maybe you would understand the lucky circumstances if you are not poor and just can do what you want. LOL! If you only knew how broke I am.
I totally agree that I don't want my money go to waste, like paying for $16 muffins at Government lunches, but if it is spend for the right cause, yes I'm willing to pay my share. Then spend your fair share, but don't require others to spend what they may consider unfair.

And I think it is a blessing that I'm able to do that without any problems. No problems? Good for you.

And NO! I'm not a communist. maybe it is just that I am not as greedy as I should be in this country. Are you saying it is greedy for a person to want to keep what he/she works for? What right do you have to anything that is mine? (Hypothetically, of course, I don't have much.) But assume I did. Why should you or anyone else have it? Why can't I give it away, or keep it, as I want? How is it greedy for a person to want to distribute the fruits of his/her labor as s/he sees fit?

If you think that the government does the best job of distributing wealth, then you are a Marxist. Sorry, but that is pretty much the definition of a Marxist.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

If you think that the government does the best job of distributing wealth, then you are a Marxist. Sorry, but that is pretty much the definition of a Marxist.

Repealing property tax = wishful thinking but I do agree.

You are broke? How come I don't believe you? A masters in taxation can be converted quite easily into $$$'s, especially the next few months starting 2012.
Hey I might even have work for you, I'm an Enrolled Agent and still have a number of small business clients for their Sch. C, D and E Tax Returns and some S-Corps.

As far as being unfair that your money is spend while you don't agree with it, isn't that the matter with every penny that is called Taxation, on all levels? Whether it's Fed, State or City, County? And Excise tax of course.

But some things need to be done and they simply don't get done if it is not mandatory.
In my opinion healthcare is one of those things.
Why would a Government spend almost a trillion every year to "keep you safe" in the form of a defense budget, but fail to give you the opportunity to be healthy if you don't have an employer that takes the tab?

But hey I respect everyone's opinion, even yours my friend!!!

(except for Whirl's and Marshall's)



.

[CuteOldGuy]

First of all, just because something is good to do doesn't mean government has to do it. Secondly, defense is authorized in the Constitution, health care is not. Thirdly, we revolted against England because . . . wait for it . . . we DISAGREED WITH A TAX!

And yes, I should be rolling in bucks. I had to work pretty hard to get where I am, LOL! Against all odds, I ended up broke.

Oh, and by the way, the employer does not "pick up the tab" for insurance. Ever. The employee works for the insurance, and if the employee does not return enough to the employer in value to cover the insurance either the insurance goes, or the employee goes.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

First of all, just because something is good to do doesn't mean government has to do it. Secondly, defense is authorized in the Constitution, health care is not. Thirdly, we revolted against England because . . . wait for it . . . we DISAGREED WITH A TAX!

And yes, I should be rolling in bucks. I had to work pretty hard to get where I am, LOL! Against all odds, I ended up broke.

Oh, and by the way, the employer does not "pick up the tab" for insurance. Ever. The employee works for the insurance, and if the employee does not return enough to the employer in value to cover the insurance either the insurance goes, or the employee goes.

I'll answer later, have to get a few hours sleep to be ready when the London Market opens