Friendships and the hobby

[Copierguy0]

Originally Posted by Reese Foster

Before anyone says anything negative....this is not a threAD or about money, this is about friendship and that is it.

"Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my Friend."

"True Friendships can only be felt by the Heart, not seen by the Eyes."

"Cherish the Memories of a Friendship, for it lives within the Heart"

Some friends leave for whatever reason, and don't want anyone to know, Health, Money, Travel, Job, Divorce, Marriage, Etc... That don't mean they won't be back years later. I like to believe that for every friendship that dies out, 10 more are being born if, you allow it.

Ms Reese, I would love to think of you as a Friend,
CG

[pmdelites]

Originally Posted by Reese Foster

You all know by now that I am a softie and emotional..so I thought I would just confirm it with this thread.

that's one of the reasons why i really like and admire you.
oh, and the wild woman part!!

Originally Posted by Reese Foster

...
Over the last few years, I have had several clients I considered close friends that have slowly but surely disappeared from every aspect of friendship that we had...

Gentlemen, when you walk away from a lady friend...like not seeing her anymore...cutting off all communication with her, is it hard on you?

What are some of the reasons that you walk away?

I am sure that I probably put too much emotion in everything I do, but when I consider someone a friend, it is really hard to lose them as one.

... I know that we aren't supposed to take this thing too seriously, but I take all of my relationships that way, friendships and otherwise.

ms foster [if i may use that as we have consulted before]

i think there are two parts to this topic. the first you didnt ask.

• can one make friends in this sub-culture?

dictionary.com lists it this way.
Acquaintance, associate, companion, friend refer to a person with whom one is in contact.
An acquaintance is someone recognized by sight or someone known, though not intimately: a casual acquaintance.
An associate is a person who is often in one's company, usually because of some work, enterprise, or pursuit in common: a business associate.
A companion is a person who shares one's activities, fate, or condition: a traveling companion; companion in despair.
A friend is a person with whom one is on intimate terms and for whom one feels a warm affection: a trusted friend.


in order to be "friends", the two have to invest the time and energy to become friends. which i dont think can happen if you just visit during consultations, send an occasional email/phone call, have lunch or drinks, etc.
to me, getting to know someone this way, to me, is just knowing them a bit more.

in my book, really being a "friend" means much more - being able to visit almost whenever, helping out, going out for fun, helping move [either locations or moving furniture/stuff in/out], calling when the going gets roughs, calling to help out when car battery has died and no AAA, needing a ride to/from the airport, needing a shoulder to cry on or offering a shoulder for them to cry on, listening to them and not offering advice unless asked, lifting them up when they need support.
much more intimate and much more caring for each other.

however, if a man is in a committed relationship [married or S.O.], there is a BIG line between the man client and the woman provider, no matter how much either one wishes or wants or craves that it wasnt there. even if he's not in a committed relationship, there is still a line there.
and, to me, that line also separates a more-than-casual-relationship from a very deep intimate call-me-when-you-need-me deep friendship.

so, can it happen in this sub-culture? yes. does it happen often? probably not.


in my years in this sub-culture, i've only met a few with whom i had a more than casual relationship. i couldnt call them up or count on them for most anything and they couldnt call me up or count on me for most anything either.

i've done things like - took them grocery shopping just cos i knew things were tight, took them to lunch just to catch up on things, sent them a birthday card or took them to a birthday dinner, met them for a drink at their favorite bar/restaurant, gave them a monetary gift with no expectation of any return, or sent an email or called them to say "hey, how's it going?"

but, i know the line is there, see the line, and let that line constrain my relationships w/ these few.

if i werent in a committed relationship, the i'm-in-a-committed-relationship line wouldnt be there, but the "i'm a civie and you're a provider" line would still be there. maybe we could erase some of it, maybe a lot of it, but it would still be there.

so, i wouldnt call them my BFF, but i do call them someone i enjoy as a person, feel comfortable with, and enjoy visiting/talking/hanging out.

• but then you asked [assuming you meant if one is able to form a deeper friendship with a provider]...

when you walk away from a lady friend...like not seeing her anymore...cutting off all communication with her, is it hard on you?
What are some of the reasons that you walk away?

since i've not formed such a relationship, i cannot answer.

in my early years, i thought i formed a "close" relationship with two different women.

when the 1st started asking me to come visit them "cos i'm in a bind" [that is, i was a cash bull to them], i ended it and it was tough. but sassy classy [another provider "friend"] let me come over [for no counseling fee!!!!] and cry on her shoulder as i wondered what to do. she helped out by telling me what i needed to hear but had avoiding tell myself "she's just a provider, not a friend!"
sassy classy proved to be a true friend that day. i knew there wasnt a fee, but i gave her a $100 gift card for her time.

when the 2nd sent a private message saying "contact me as soon as possible" then told me on the phone, "pm, since you've always been such a gentleman, can you give me some money to help me make my car payment? it's overdue.", i said i'd have to think about, pm'd her later and said i couldnt, and then walked away. that one was not hard or tough at all.

i saw them for how they saw me - as a source of funds for their life cos they hadnt planned their finances well. that's their responsibility, not mine.



for the few women that i currently consider "friends", i've told them that as long as we are both cool about our relationship, dont go wacko on me, dont hit me up for money, enjoy my company, i'll continue to be "friends" for quite a while.

if either decides to end our relationship [for whatever reason], that's their choice. it'd be nice to know why they ended it, but if i dont find out, i'll always have the memories.

[very interesting that you received the PM you quoted "the memories will always be yours." and then said "Thanks guys, for the memories." esp. since i started drafting friday afternoon on the flight home!!]

yep, we'll always have bedford, n. dallas, and downtown dallas!!!


so, it might be hard to walk away. and even if she's a very close friend, i'll accept it and move on. it's happened in real life. i dont see why it couldnt happen in this sub-culture.

peace and love to you, ms foster!!!

[Guest062124]

Delites.. you are always so DEEP. That's a compliment.

I am glad we have our memories. Life goes on and changes are a good thing, right?

[pmdelites]

thx ms. foster for the comment.

i've been drafting and revising my reply since you started this thread last week.
i wanted to make sure i had my thoughts coherent [and unfortunately longer than some] so that i could share some of what i've learned in 10+ yrs in this sub-culture of delites [well, there have been some less than deliteful memories].

sometimes i take my time and think out what i want to say.
sometimes i write humorously [or attempt to].
sometimes i just write the first thing that comes out of my mouth ["mmmmmmmmm ms foster!!!"].

bottomline, there is a line between me and every woman i've visited with.
sometimes i pretend it's not there and become a bit closer.
sometimes i wish it weren't there and she could become best buds/friends/lovers for life.
but it has always been there, is there now, and will be there in the future.

anyhoo, thanks for our memories, ms. foster!!!
and thanks to all other fabulous women in the dfw area that i've got great memories from!!!!!

[soccer guy]

Originally Posted by LuckJack

Add it up, the hobby is still cheaper than the RW (unless your DAMAN).

I’ve always assumed by Daman’s review count and classic catchphrase that he is Bill Gates. If true, his RW spending is still likely higher than his hobby expenses.

On topic, Reese, this is a great thread. (Especially for newbs and lurkers - just look at the number of us coming out from the shadows.) I’ll add myself to the growing list by saying thanks for posting it. It brings up a perfect example of what I think a lot of guys are cautious about, which is the potential of "getting attached". Here's what I mean: When you think about the nature of this industry, it is unique. It provides an inherently intimate act but surrounds it with business, which in our culture is almost the opposite of intimate. That makes for confusion, which is a deterrent to creating real friendships.

For example, guys may want to stay in touch but don't because there isn't an easy way to know what the lady wants. Sure he may have talked with her multiple times in the weeks after the session, and lord knows - she is a sweetheart, but it is her job to a degree to act that way. (It is called "girlfriend experience" after all.) There's always that tiny question in the back of his mind: "Was that connection I felt real and we’re chatting now because we're friends, or is she just really good and she’s doing her due diligence to keep me as a repeat client?" It is her livelihood we're talking about here. Making matters worse is the fact that the answer to that doesn't have to be one or the other. It can be both. Confusing indeed, hence why I think guys are cautious of getting attached.

So for me, it boils down to two things: 1) Unless the guy is an idiot, he should know that meeting a girl via the hobby almost definitely excludes him from ever having a real world romantic relationship with her. As such, if he feels too much for her, he has to do the safe thing and cut it off. Feelings of friendship can grow into more when sex is involved so same thing there. 2) No one, guy or girl, wants to put themselves out there to get burned. You only need to look at some of the earlier replies in this thread for proof of that. It is far too easy to get taken advantage of. With that in mind, some guys just won't even bother trying to start up a friendship.

Anyway, that’s my two cents. When you start talking about feelings and attraction, what's real and what isn't are important. That’s a grey area here so you end up with weirdness. Guys who can't handle it will probably fade away like you’ve seen. Guys who really can't handle it will turn into that crazy guy Naomi mentioned, who runs around in Augusta playing golf and buying cars for people he just met. Guys who can handle it - those are the ones that stick around and you get to enjoy their company, as they do yours.

[Jasser]

A couple providers talked to me about this. Personally, I enjoyed the friendships I gained from the hobby and enjoyed the communication that wasn't hobby related. However, both told me that, in most cases, if you're not setting up an appointment or a regular, the ladies will think you're trying to get freebies. The basically came out and said that if friendship was what I was looking for, I was in the wrong hobby.

So, I walked away from it all. I pop in here every now and then to see if everyone is still good, but I quit the texting just to see "whats up".

[Guest062124]

double post

[Guest062124]

Originally Posted by Jasser

A couple providers talked to me about this. Personally, I enjoyed the friendships I gained from the hobby and enjoyed the communication that wasn't hobby related. However, both told me that, in most cases, if you're not setting up an appointment or a regular, the ladies will think you're trying to get freebies. The basically came out and said that if friendship was what I was looking for, I was in the wrong hobby.

So, I walked away from it all. I pop in here every now and then to see if everyone is still good, but I quit the texting just to see "whats up".

I never would have thought that about you. I never think freebies are a motive unless the guy has given me a reason to believe otherwise.

[LuckJack]

I have said for years "those that think you can't have friends in the hobby don't know Fawn". I think it is no coincidence that Reese and Fawn are best buddies.

[MaxiMilyen]

It would be very easy to become friends with almost everyone who has walked through my door. However, while we all need friends, we all also have needs which brought us to the hobby. The women have a need for money to support themselves and the men have a need for intimate contact of some sort. My friends/benefactors/clients don't ask for, nor have they led me to believe, that they would want "freebies" just because we are also able to connect in a non-BCD manner.

Someone said in an earlier post that friends don't charge friends for sex. Let's think about that a minute. hmmmm I say a friend would not take advantage of a friend or test a friendship in such a manner. While I would almost always spend more time with those I feel a connection with, I would not take advantage of the fact that I asked them to stay longer if they can or tell them I'd like that they keep in touch.

Here's a poem I read years ago that hits on different types of friendship/relationships. It seems to ring true for me:

Reason, Season, or Lifetime

People come into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime.
When you figure out which one it is,
you will know what to do for each person.

When someone is in your life for a REASON,
it is usually to meet a need you have expressed.
They have come to assist you through a difficulty;
to provide you with guidance and support;
to aid you physically, emotionally or spiritually.
They may seem like a godsend, and they are.
They are there for the reason you need them to be.
Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time,
this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end.
Sometimes they die. Sometimes they walk away.
Sometimes they act up and force you to take a stand.
What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled; their work is done.
The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

Some people come into your life for a SEASON,
because your turn has come to share, grow or learn.
They bring you an experience of peace or make you laugh.
They may teach you something you have never done.
They usually give you an unbelievable amount of joy.
Believe it. It is real. But only for a season.

LIFETIME relationships teach you lifetime lessons;
things you must build upon in order to have a solid emotional foundation.
Your job is to accept the lesson, love the person,
and put what you have learned to use in all other relationships and areas of your life.

It is said that love is blind but friendship is clairvoyant.
— Unknown

[ItalianaPrincess]

...about Pmdelites always being so DEEP.

Men are stupid and do not know what a woman wants.....even if they are told verrry slowly in small easy words.....LOL. I love you all!!

yaddayadda - TFF

And "Yes" to one of Pmdelites questions, "is it possible to make friends in this sub-culture?" - I say yes.

Not all the time, but some of the time. I have made a handful of really good friends from this sub-culture (some have been intimate with & some have not). So it is not about the $$ all of the time Naomi. Although I do agree with your 'theory' 80% of the time, there are those special few who I truly consider a friend. We text during the week, check up on each other, forward each other retarded emails to make each other laugh, have lunch during the week, and cheer each other up when life is trying to hand us lemons. **ALL OF THIS - OFF 'THE CLOCK'**

It all depends on each party: how receptive they are & if they are willing to BE A FRIEND in return. If they wish to keep it BUSINESS then that is their prerogative.

From what some have told me, they choose to walk away when they become scared of getting too attached. I've had to really draw some boundaries with some of my guys because of the "feelings" that start to develop. It can definitely go both ways. Sex is a very intimate thing. It is natural (for some) to develop emotions & feelings. Like another post from Reese "WE ARE NOT ROBOTS" dammit! LOL

But another reason that they might move on, is because they've moved on to other pussy. Like it or not, it happens, but don't worry. In time, they'll be back...especially if you've curled those toes for them a time or two! LOL I think it's funny & even encourage some of my guys to go and venture out & report back...I wanna hear what dirty boyz they've been! ...but that's just me!

For what it's worth....

[pmdelites]

italiana princess, most excellent post!!
worth my time reading it!!

[PODarkness]

A few random thoughts after reading this thread...

Sometimes friendships drift apart. There is no "end", just less and less effort to maintain the relationship, until there is nothing. Any relationship takes effort, thought, and caring.

Having sex is "getting something for nothing" only if one of the people thinks there is a provider in the bed. If you can't be just a person with someone, and put away the job, or if you can't see the person as anything but their job, it's not a friendship. I do things for friends, and with friends, that I also do for a living. They do the same. We don't charge each other unless a request was made through professional channels.

Some men can't be friends with a woman without making it sexual. Some women can't be friends with a man without making it financial. Both miss out on some great friendships.

I have been friends with a woman who became a provider during our friendship. I have been friends with a woman who was a provider, but didn't know it when we became friends. I have been friends with providers I have seen. They are just women... Or maybe I should not say "just". They are women. They are as confusing, frustrating, and devious as any, and they are as good a friend as any, maybe better, because they don't trust many, and value those they trust.

[Guest062124]

Originally Posted by PODarkness

They are women. They are as confusing, frustrating, and devious as any, and they are as good a friend as any, maybe better, because they don't trust many, and value those they trust.

I love this...perfectly stated.

[MaxiMilyen]

Originally Posted by PODarkness
They are women. They are as confusing, frustrating, and devious as any, and they are as good a friend as any, maybe better, because they don't trust many, and value those they trust.

Originally Posted by Reese Foster

I love this...perfectly stated.

Ditto and from a provider/woman's perspective, change the word "women" to "men who hobby". But what's a lady to do....we love it that the gents are just the same to us.....who doesn't love a mystery?

Great thread, Reese!