DUI Laws, Love em or Hate em

[vitokc]

Social drinkers, alcoholics, what's the difference. When impaired they are all drunks. LE doesn't need to understand how a machine works, just know how to use it. All they can do is submit the evidence. Which has to be processed properly or any slick
lawyer will help the drunk beat the charge. Face it, people are fed up with drunk drivers. Time and time again they get away with driving impaired. Feel singled out?
Tough, don't drink and drive.

[lacrew_2000]

"Face it, people are fed up with drunk drivers."

I know, that's why I brought it up. It seems people are much more willing to put up will questionable law enforcement tactics, when it comes to drunk driving, as opposed to any other crime.

"Feel singled out"

Yes and no. I don't drive drunk, never had a DUI, just had my little episode described at the top of the thread where I clearly Was Not Drunk. So, no, I'm not worried about getting a DUI personally.

But, YES, I do feel singled out. I drive alot at night, and get pulled over for BS stuff. Look at Biggestbest's post...he has gotten pulled over for Alot of BS stuff.

Don't tell me tough shit, don't drink - you aren't slowing down enough to understand the question. Are you perfectly happy to get pulled over under false pretenses, just in a DUI fishing expedition, when stone cold sober. What's your limit - 5 times, 10 times, how much is ok? How about DUI checkpoints?

Why not a 'checkpoint' on the information super highway, where LE gets to randomly access email accounts? Just to make sure nothing illegal is happening? I see stories every week about human trafficking. Politicians are latching onto it just like they did to DUI in the 80's. I can absolutely see the hobby this board is about being threatened using the same ends justifying the means logic that DUI policies are built on.

[Longermonger]

IMO, the problem with the system is that it is designed to fail. Bars have parking lots after all. What is parked in parking lots? Cars. So why are people shocked when the result is drunk driving?

DUIs equal money, so the people getting the money have a disincentive to fix the core problem.

The core problem is a transportation problem: How do you safely transport drunks? Taxis seem like an easy answer until you look at the costs. Drivers will risk getting a DUI and only spend $1.50 in gas to drive home instead of paying a cab driver $25 for the same trip. They usually don't want to leave their car at the bar, either. That would be another $25 cab ride back the next day. $50 total vs. $1.50.

The solution is taxpayer funded public transportation. How much extra would you pay in taxes per year to get the drunk drivers off of the road? Ten cents? A dollar? Ten dollars? A hundred dollars?

If you never drank a drop you'd get to save some lives for that small tax. One of them might be your own. If you were a drinker, you'd get to ride to and from the bars for free and never have to worry about a DUI. You might also keep your ass out of prison, a hospital or graveyard. Sounds cheap now don't it?

Bars could sell the property being used for a parking lot.

College fraternities have figured this out years ago. They have "sober drivers" that drive the drunks around and make sure that their cars are okay.

[A Storybook Divorce]

Longer, I agree completely about DUI's being a money-making machine and said as much earlier. BTW, Lawrence has a free cab ride program, although I'm not sure how it is funded.

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by Longermonger

The solution is taxpayer funded public transportation. How much extra would you pay in taxes per year to get the drunk drivers off of the road? Ten cents? A dollar? Ten dollars? A hundred dollars?

My answer. Nothing, not a dime. I'm not paying for people to go out and have the public transportation take them home on my dime. Those going out to the bars can get a cab. I don't care how much it cost. Going out to the bars is a luxury, it is by no means a right.

Originally Posted by Longermonger

Bars could sell the property being used for a parking lot.

That's a horrible idea. Most bars are bar and grills. Where are the dining patrons of the bar and grill going to park? What about parking for the lunch crowd many bar and grills have?

Don't want to drink and drive, but you still want to go out. There are three simple solutions. Have a designated driver, have someone drop you off at the bar (a friend, taxi, bus, etc) or hit the pavement and walk to the bar.

[A Storybook Divorce]

We're trying to have a healthy debate. Saying shut up and obey the law is assinine, and perhaps longterm just as dangerous to society as driving drunk.

Sorry, but when we start letting government dictate laws to us without question, you're not living in a democracy. I could go back 100 years and use a similar quote: "Recognize there are laws against women and minorities voting, you just have to quit whining and follow them." Does it make it right because it's a law?

Yes, there is a public need to keep drunk people from driving, the question posed in this thread is: at what cost to our freedom? For many, the possibility of being pulled over for no reason and detained for 15-30 minutes is reasonable. To echo Lacrew's questions: so at what point would LE's behavior be unreasonable to you? Or is there a point?

[lacrew_2000]

FWIW, checkpoints are not used in eleven states, for various reasons...including violation of state constitutions.

I have actually been 'detained' at a checkpoint. I was 21 y/o and stone cold sober....but, the officer was intrigued by my out of state plate. He politely 'asked' me to pull to the side, so others could keep going through. He asked me alot of questions. Where was I going? How long had I owned the car? How did you pay for this car? Why are you so far away with an out of state plate? (Once he figured out I wasn't drinking, he obviously thought - dealer!). I was in the military, and his little detention damned near made me miss movement.

Was it right for him to detain me? He had no probable cause. I wasn't doing anything wrong. It struck me as a rather eastern block experience.

[lacrew_2000]

"Just like a speed limit. You may argue that your a safe driver and you "feel" like you can safely drive your car 30 mph on a residential street. What you "feel" doesn't matter. If the speed limit is 25 mph, your breaking the law. You can bitch about it, but that's all it really is."

Interesting analogy. Hard to believe it really happens, but I've been given a ticket when I wasn't speeding. I know, I know, who would think that a cop would lie about that. He had a fancy radar detector machiny thingy and everything, so he had to be right.

(I was on cruise control, and I'm like Rain-man with the mile post markers and a stopwatch constantly checking my spedometer's accuracy. The cop gave me some bull-shit speed that was 20 over, and told me I could see his radar gun....with an 'I'll take you in for wreckless driving if you do' grin on his face. Before I even put my wallet away and had my car in gear, he had another car pulled over I was actually going 2 mph under, so I could be lazy and let everybody pass me...so I think he was preying on 'good' drivers who would have less experience contesting a ticket. Military obligations kept me from going to court)

I guess I just don't trust LE as much as some people here. They are human beings, with pressures to 'produce' just like everybody else. Of course a speeding ticket is expensive and a hassle...but nothing like a DUI arrest.

[dtguy]

Originally Posted by Longermonger

IMO, the problem with the system is that it is designed to fail. Bars have parking lots after all. What is parked in parking lots? Cars. So why are people shocked when the result is drunk driving? ... How do you safely transport drunks?

When I would go out with friends and drink (still go out but I don't drink anymore) someone would agree to be the designated driver. They would have no alcohol at all that night. They drove everyone home. If we had a party at someones house then sometimes a friend or two would 'sleep over' (on the couch or on the floor with some blankets ). It worked pretty well for us. We actually cared about each other more than we cared about getting a buzz everytime we went out.

Since I don't drink at all anymore, I just let folks know I will drive them home and the next day take them to get their car if necessary. I care enough about my friends that it isn't that big a deal for me to do this for them.

[BigMikeinKC]

Driving is not a constitutional right. The drunk driving laws were enacted by representatives whom we elected. They need to be enforced properly.

Drive drunk go to jail, it is not society's fault - take responsability for your own actions.

Sorry to hear that any of you were inconvenienced by a field sobriety test. Give me back my daughter and maybe I'll have some sympathy for your pathetic, selfish ass!

[Guest072311]

Very emotional issue, thanks to everyone for the civil discussion on a very difficult area. Lots of well made points and few simple answers.

[Omahan]

Originally Posted by BigMikeinKC

Sorry to hear that any of you were inconvenienced by a field sobriety test. Give me back my daughter and maybe I'll have some sympathy for your pathetic, selfish ass!

BigMike please stay on the topic and away from personal attacks.

[BottomlessFilth]

In my opinion, why even take the chance at accidentally hurting or killing someone? In addition if you are able to avoid that, why take the chance of getting a DWI/DUI? DUI/DWI will cost you a ton of money, time and trouble. Better to just avoid it all together. If you kill someone, I mean that's it they are gone forever. You can never get a do-over, you can never fix that.

My friends and I all take cabs when we go out on the weekends. We get there safe, we get home safe and more importantly we didn't hurt or kill anyone & no DUI/DWI. Better to spend $20-40 in cab fare than to live with regret and remorse for the rest of our lives.

I'm no saint so I'm not preaching. Just saying lots of people out there get a DUI/DWI, learn their lesson and don't ever drink & drive again. Then there are those that either have a problem with alcoholism or just don't give a shit about the welfare of others. They keep on getting behind the wheel. One DUI/DWI is understandable if lesson is learned, but I have met people who have 3-4+ of them. Usually they are the ones with an alcohol problem leaving me to feel bad for them hoping they are able to get the help they so desperately need. But until they do they are a ticking time bomb just waiting to destroy some innocent person's life....that person could be YOUR mother, father, brother, sister, wife, husband, child, friend, co-worker. Their irresponsible actions wreak havoc in many people's lives that are associated with the one that was either hurt or killed in the senseless and avoidable drunk driving accident.

If you make good decisions, good things usually are the result. That's all it really boils down to: Drinking & Driving has more negative effects than positive so just don't do it! Take a cab, walk, public transportation or swindle a friend into being the DD.

[old-tyme-racer]

Drunk Drivers in Missouri can buy their way out for about a $400.00 Fine and a well known lawyer, I know this first hand, just a few years back I had a Drunk hit my house, 3 cars about $50,000 in all damages, he had insurance, this was his 2nd Drunk Driving conviction as an adult, he also had 1 as a minor, they let him keep his drivers licence because of a hardship, he also blew a 0.143 BA on 2 machines.

This drunk was out just a few hundred dollars, I was the one that was out alot of time, which I never got a thing for my time.

PS I also had an appointment that night with a Sweet Lady, had to change my plans on that, that pissed me off big time.

[lacrew_2000]

Here's a link to another pathetic selfish ass, who has the audacity to speak out about being wrongfully arrested and publicly humiliated:

http://colorado-dui.com/parts/Images/outrageous.pdf

Get it?

Here's another pathetic soul who got arrested for no good reason:

http://www.winknews.com/news/local/59789572.html

Feel good about that?

In Michigan, somebody pocketed the money instead of calibrating the machine: 4000 wrongful convictions:

http://winbackyourlife.org/fraudulen...g-convictions/

Is that ok?

Fraud in a Seattle lab:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._logan15m.html

Its an emotional issue...are some people stretching results because they have so much emotion wrapped up in it? Because its politically expedient.