Why Do Liberals Hate Patriotic Symbols?

[Whirlaway]

What prompted me to ask the question is this short news item out of Eugene, Oregon, a very liberal city. Apparently city council worked out a comprise to allow the reading of the Pledge at four city funtions !

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...llegiance.html

WTF !

I am curious to hear from all the liberals on what it is about patriotism that irks them....

A listing of your beefs would be appreciated.

[Doove]

I used to be quite patriotic. That is, until Republicans totally bastardized the entire concept.

[Whirlaway]

Doove says...."Nothing I say is intended to be a factual statement"

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

What prompted me to ask the question is this short news item out of Eugene, Oregon, a very liberal city. Apparently city council worked out a comprise to allow the reading of the Pledge at four city funtions !

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...llegiance.html

WTF !

I am curious to hear from all the liberals on what it is about patriotism that irks them....

A listing of your beefs would be appreciated.

It's people like you that are destroying America. What have you done for our country other than bitch? I'd like a listing of your anarchist rants on why you hate our country, our President and the government.

[DareDevil07]

The statement "liberals hate patriotic symbols" indicates that you probably wont listen to a real answer, but I'll try anyway.
First of all, liberals do NOT hate patriotic symbols, and are in fact very patriotic. However, Patriotism and Nationalism are two different things. Many "Conservative" portions of the country get the two mixed up. Nationalism means to give more importance to unity by way of a cultural background, including language and heritage. Patriotism pertains to the love for a nation, with more emphasis on values and beliefs.
Secondly, the Pledge of allegiance is a special case. The "Under God" provision in the Pledge does cause some constitutional problems when it is used in a State sanctioned setting. The First Amendment clearly states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...?
Reciting the Pledge with the Under God provision can be interpreted as the state endorsing a specific religious belief.
Using the Pledge issue, liberals are actually the more Patriotic whereas the conservatives are simply Nationalistic.

[googol^googol]

When our county Democratic Party participates in local town parades we hand out small American flags to the people along the route.

At every Democratic district and state convention I've been to, the meeting begins with the Pledge of Alliegance. Those who wish to say 'under God' say 'under God'. Those who choose not to, don't.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

I am curious to hear from all the liberals on what it is about patriotism that irks them....

It is statements like the above that makes me ROTFLMAO. And then I consider the fact that the ridiculous remarks referenced above actually comes from a real person and all of a sudden it occurred to me that this individual must lead a very sheltered life.

I also thought of all of the "Liberals" wo have died defending our flag and how they would have reacted to the remarks referenced above. I also thought about the Far Right Wing Conservatives who died for our country and wondered how they would have reacted. May they ALL Rest in Peace, liberals, conservatives and all points in between!

One thing I do know with certainty, there are "patriots" in all walks of life! It is unfortunate that there are folks who call themselves Americans who fail to recognize that basic fact!

[Whirlaway]

DD: Thanks for a thoughtful answer that isn't an ad hominem attack....

Originally Posted by DareDevil07

The statement "liberals hate patriotic symbols" indicates that you probably wont listen to a real answer, but I'll try anyway.
First of all, liberals do NOT hate patriotic symbols, and are in fact very patriotic. However, Patriotism and Nationalism are two different things. Many "Conservative" portions of the country get the two mixed up. Nationalism means to give more importance to unity by way of a cultural background, including language and heritage. Patriotism pertains to the love for a nation, with more emphasis on values and beliefs.
Secondly, the Pledge of allegiance is a special case. The "Under God" provision in the Pledge does cause some constitutional problems when it is used in a State sanctioned setting. The First Amendment clearly states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...?
Reciting the Pledge with the Under God provision can be interpreted as the state endorsing a specific religious belief.
Using the Pledge issue, liberals are actually the more Patriotic whereas the conservatives are simply Nationalistic.

[datyking]

Whether you like it or not, most liberals and I say most, are not proud of our nation and would prefer a socialistic approach. The concept of Social Eutopia is engrained in there head. Let me prove my point. Do you think more liberals sign up to go to war or do you think more conservatives sign up to go to war to protect or liberties. I already think you know the answer to this one!

[Whirlaway]

That approach seems sensible and accomodating. Why do you think Eugene City Council doesn't handle it in the same manner? Is it because they put the rights of certain individuals over the symbol of the Pledge? In a sense, a tyranny of the minority?

Originally Posted by googol^googol

At every Democratic district and state convention I've been to, the meeting begins with the Pledge of Alliegance. Those who wish to say 'under God' say 'under God'. Those who choose not to, don't.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by datyking

Do you think more liberals sign up to go to war or do you think more conservatives sign up to go to war to protect or liberties.

I did! Quite frankly, there was not much mention of political persuasion by those in my unit! Of course, I do recognize that was a different time and a different era!

Back in the late 60's and early 70's it was pretty basic. We all had a job to do and we did it to the best of our ability! Itr really did not matter whether the guy standing next to was a liberal or conservative. All that seemed to matter was whether he properly carried out his orders and I carried out mine.

See I told you it was fairly basic!

[googol^googol]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

That approach seems sensible and accomodating. Why do you think Eugene City Council doesn't handle it in the same manner? Is it because they put the rights of certain individuals over the symbol of the Pledge? In a sense, a tyranny of the minority?

I'm hesitant to speculate about the thoughts and motives of others. So much of what passes for political debate consists of presuming to know others' (mistaken) beliefs.

I assume a government entity could have concerns about the implications of a pledge that included the phrase "under God" and how that relates to the proscription against establishment of religion. A Democratic meeting not being a governmental entity but a group of citizens peaceably assembled, we enjoy our right to free exercise thereof.

[Randy4Candy]

Originally Posted by DareDevil07

The statement "liberals hate patriotic symbols" indicates that you probably wont listen to a real answer, but I'll try anyway.
First of all, liberals do NOT hate patriotic symbols, and are in fact very patriotic. However, Patriotism and Nationalism are two different things. Many "Conservative" portions of the country get the two mixed up. Nationalism means to give more importance to unity by way of a cultural background, including language and heritage. Patriotism pertains to the love for a nation, with more emphasis on values and beliefs.
Secondly, the Pledge of allegiance is a special case. The "Under God" provision in the Pledge does cause some constitutional problems when it is used in a State sanctioned setting. The First Amendment clearly states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...?
Reciting the Pledge with the Under God provision can be interpreted as the state endorsing a specific religious belief.
Using the Pledge issue, liberals are actually the more Patriotic whereas the conservatives are simply Nationalistic.

Plus, the original version of the PofA did not contain the words "under God." Oh, well. So much for "original intent."

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by bigtex

It is statements like the above that makes me ROTFLMAO. And then I consider the fact that the ridiculous remarks referenced above actually comes from a real person and all of a sudden it occurred to me that this individual must lead a very sheltered life.

I also thought of all of the "Liberals" wo have died defending our flag and how they would have reacted to the remarks referenced above.

Like this one?

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Like this one?

All liberals are not Jane Fonda. Just as all conservatives are not Glenn Beck.

I should not have to remind you that there are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum! A huge percentage of us are somewhere in between. I know I am. I am not sure about you!