The ethical implications of charitable giving

[NinaBrooke]

Hi All,
Inspired by a previous thread whether giving away money is a good and socially improving thing to do or rather just a means of calming yourself down and ease your mind from "really" doing something to change the society you live in i want to post the following lecture of Slavoij Zizek on the Ethical Implications of Charitable giving and the tricky intricacies it presents:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g

In this short RSA Animate, renowned philosopher Slavoj Zizek investigates the surprising ethical implications of charitable giving.
Slavoj Žižek; born 21 March 1949) is a Slovenian continental philosopher and critical theorist working in the traditions of Hegelianism, Marxism and Lacanian psychoanalysis. He has made contributions to political theory, film theory, and theoretical psychoanalysis. (source wikipedia)

[Guest053011]

Micro-Financing has proven to be amazingly successful, that and helping people directly rather then through an agency.

I recall the days that the shelters would bring in donations of clothes and toys. Otherwise dreary and tense, suddenly you could hear the children laughing as we stormed the toy boxes. Moms picked out clothes to replace what was destroyed or stolen, or they never had - a good sweater was particularly treasured. I still have every stuffed animal ever given me during those years. Better yet when a company or school would sponsors a family for Christmas or Thanksgiving, letting them have a wonderful dinner and gifts for the kids - that always brought tears to the mother's eyes.

The reality of giving can be powerful.

[Mazomaniac]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

Micro-Financing has proven to be amazingly successful

I have been providing micro-financing for my daughter for the last four years.

It's made a huge difference for her. Her quality of life has improved dramatically since I . . . .

Hey . . . . wait a minute!

I'm supposed to get that money back?!?!?!?!?

Cheers,
Mazo.

[Guest053011]

A great resource introduced to me by a wealthy business owner who gives a great deal:

CharityNavigator.org
Charity Navigator, America's largest independent charity evaluator, provides free financial evaluations of America's charities.

It evaluates Organizational Efficiency , compares revenue to expenses, And shows Net assets, amongst other things.

[Guest053011]

Daddy Welfare??

I'm sure you love your little girl, even when she drives you crazy.

Originally Posted by Mazomaniac

I have been providing micro-financing for my daughter for the last four years.

It's made a huge difference for her. Her quality of life has improved dramatically since I . . . .

Hey . . . . wait a minute!

I'm supposed to get that money back?!?!?!?!?

Cheers,
Mazo.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

Micro-Financing has proven to be amazingly successful, that and helping people directly rather then through an agency.

I recall the days that the shelters would bring in donations of clothes and toys. Otherwise dreary and tense, suddenly you could hear the children laughing as we stormed the toy boxes. Moms picked out clothes to replace what was destroyed or stolen, or they never had - a good sweater was particularly treasured. I still have every stuffed animal ever given me during those years. Better yet when a company or school would sponsors a family for Christmas or Thanksgiving, letting them have a wonderful dinner and gifts for the kids - that always brought tears to the mother's eyes.

The reality of giving can be powerful.

I suggest listening to the video before posting, because the thread is about something completely different :Its much rather on how we support capitalism with doing the things that are supposed to be charitable, thanks
ps´: Lauren, it seems to be your habit of posting in threads that i open without reading what i have to say in the first place, what is the point of doing so? I also recall the polyamory thread about people going to court where you did the same? May i ask what this is about?

[charlestudor2005]

I did listen to it but only once. He talks way too fast to easily understand everything he says. It's also a very deep subject. I'd want to listen to it several times before discussing it at length.

Having said that, I agree with his basic assumption, that charity is a double edged sword. Intending to help sometimes winds up hurting.

He marks 1968 as a seminal date. I would disagree with him. I think the issue is timeless.

[Mazomaniac]

Sorry Nina,

I wasn't trying to hijack. Just trying to make a funny. If you want a critical response I'll give you one:

I've read some of Zizek's stuff and, quite frankly, I'm not that impressed by it. To me this guy is more of a cult of personality than a serious "philosopher". I don't see anything in his ideas that hasn't been expressed before. To me it all just seems like the same old eastern European hand waving packaged into a hip-hop version for consumption by the young. At the end of the day there's just not much behind it.

The piece you posted is a particularly good demonstration of this. The entire premiss of the piece is that we are living in a time of "cultural capitalism". Without that premise the whole thing falls apart. That makes it a very attractive theory for people under the age of 40 living to the east of the English Channel. I'm sure it's a big hit with that crowd.

The folks on the other side of the water have a different view. If you want proof that the US and UK aren't subject to cultural capitalism just do a quick review of the posts on this board. It's not even a question over here that such a state doesn't exist. PJ's posts alone can supply you with at least 20 examples of anti-cultural capitalism every day.

So yeah, like most political thinkers that come out of your part of the world the guy is very articulate, he's very smart, I'm sure he gets the chicks. He's also pretty much irrelevant to most of western culture, all of eastern culture, and the great majority of what lies in between. His ideas just don't hold up outside of the eastern EU. A fascinating man, no doubt, but one with the typical ego of somebody who thinks he's got the solution for everyone's problem.

Cheers,
Mazo.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Mazomaniac

PJ's posts alone can supply you with at least 20 examples of anti-cultural capitalism every day.

Now just a damn minute! I am not anti-cultural. I am anti-government-funded-cultural. There is a big difference.

[London Rayne]

I agree with Nina that often times giving money is not doing enough, but some people can't do more. I don't feel so great about that 10 percent I give when I am driving around in a Mercedes and my child is in private school. I really wish I could do so much more to help those who TRULY need it.

I have spent time at St. Jude when visiting Memphis because that's one of my major charities that I give money to. I wanted to see first hand what and who I was helping, and boy did I. Now it's a habit for me to spend at least one day volunteering and actually seeing what these poor children and their parents deal with on a daily basis. No parent should ever have to watch their child wither away from cancer...it's beyond heart breaking.

I think the world is so overwhelmed with loss, poverty, and sadness that one becomes numb in their giving. When you realize nothing you do can ever be enough, you are left with a feeling of hopelessness. You do what you can, and don't pat yourself on the back too much for it.

It's not the millionaire giving 10k but the person only making 40k a year giving that amount, that really takes courage. If everyone gave out of their "need" there would not be one child going hungry.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Mazomaniac

Sorry Nina,

I wasn't trying to hijack. Just trying to make a funny. If you want a critical response I'll give you one:

I've read some of Zizek's stuff and, quite frankly, I'm not that impressed by it. To me this guy is more of a cult of personality than a serious "philosopher". I don't see anything in his ideas that hasn't been expressed before. To me it all just seems like the same old eastern European hand waving packaged into a hip-hop version for consumption by the young. At the end of the day there's just not much behind it.

The piece you posted is a particularly good demonstration of this. The entire premiss of the piece is that we are living in a time of "cultural capitalism". Without that premise the whole thing falls apart. That makes it a very attractive theory for people under the age of 40 living to the east of the English Channel. I'm sure it's a big hit with that crowd.

The folks on the other side of the water have a different view. If you want proof that the US and UK aren't subject to cultural capitalism just do a quick review of the posts on this board. It's not even a question over here that such a state doesn't exist. PJ's posts alone can supply you with at least 20 examples of anti-cultural capitalism every day.

So yeah, like most political thinkers that come out of your part of the world the guy is very articulate, he's very smart, I'm sure he gets the chicks. He's also pretty much irrelevant to most of western culture, all of eastern culture, and the great majority of what lies in between. His ideas just don't hold up outside of the eastern EU. A fascinating man, no doubt, but one with the typical ego of somebody who thinks he's got the solution for everyone's problem.

Cheers,
Mazo.

Hi Mazo,

Don´t worry - you did not hijack anything. Lauren did. Twice already. :-)

Now to your response which i quite like, because i fancy intellectual discussions and you clearly made a good point and i love to elaborate mine further:
About premises: I do think that any kind of philosophy always falls apart without certain premises, that is the whole point of stating an area of philosophy in my POV. Take that away, yes then it would be critical to achieve the same outcome. We had that happening with Kant already, when it comes to "the critique of pure ratio" (my own translation of Kritik der reinen Vernunft) - put that towards the transpersonal aspects of mystical experiences - its not a valid point anymore or restricted.

I do not quite understand why you point out that Zizek`s elaborations are valid in particular eastern europe? Because he is eastern european? I personally don`t see eastern europe nowadays having a different form of capitalism like we do.

With the probability that he is not a unique philosopher and points have been made before you are right. His points derive from Marxism. So i agree with you on that.

When it comes to the point you made about him having the "solution" for every problem, i disagree again, i could not find his elaborations to be made like a pretentious "save the world my way" theory.

I do agree with all his points though: By supporting capitalism and financing the poor we do not get rid of poverty but control poverty and at best use it as a marketing strategy to ease our minds so we can feel good about ourselves and continue to do what we always do - live in a consumer society that is based on the fact that people like "the poor in africa" get exploited by not being treated fair and paid correct . It`s a so called "circulus vitiosus" (devils cirlce) that ends up to be a neverending story.

His critique of it is valid and so far he did not offer any point of a solution to that problem.

I just think that people should not kid themselves with charity, because it does not solve the problem, it rather makes it more invisible, because everyone thinks they are so good anyway.

My POV : charity is good, but we should not try to kid ourselves about the true intention behind it or doing something profoundly good for society. It does not change a bit. Change is different. If it gets you thru the nite to donate half a pair of Prada shoes worth to needy people and still buying the other half of this same shoes to support comsumerism then you are very good at shittin`yourself. That is what he is trying to say. And i agree.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

I agree with Nina that often times giving money is not doing enough, but some people can't do more. I don't feel so great about that 10 percent I give when I am driving around in a Mercedes and my child is in private school. I really wish I could do so much more to help those who TRULY need it.

.

I agree with you, London , a 100%. What i do find great is that you are intellectual enough to not be kidding yourself about being such a great person with donating money. Its the same with people who go in psychotherapy and sob about how bad the world is instead of doing something actively to change it. Its a narcotic to numb the self-activation of people at times. Do something to ease your mind and society gives you the feeling you are a good person while you continue to support exactly the tricks society has to offer. I am not saying i am any different. I would probably not be an escort if i were. :-). I try not to be deluding myself about that either :-)

[rp114o]

Hegel and Marx? Lulz

[WTF]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

then you are very good at shittin`yourself. That is what he is trying to say. And i agree.

If we live long enough we will all get to that point!

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by WTF

If we live long enough we will all get to that point!

i hope at least some of us do :-) ..... i am not confident enough to say all people wisen up later in life