An intriguing question for mature providers

[Eccie Addict]

Also people don't always change when they get married. We need to remember that we are usually on our best behavior when we meet someone we like. Its called manipulating...lol. Sometimes when you think things have changed what really happened was the real side of that person has come out.

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by Eccie Addict

Sometimes when you think things have changed what really happened was the real side of that person has come out.

Yes!.. where the hell were you when I made the decision to date that loser 2 years ago?

[Eccie Addict]

Well Naomi you have my number now so next time you're in doubt.... Call the bunny baby

[London Rayne]

Originally Posted by Eccie Addict

Or the wives will get rid of their sorry ass husbands lol

London- if I said what you said then they would have said I plagiarized your post....

Ha ha!! We think alike.

I would also like to add that if people are putting the burden on a spouse to make them happy, they are living in denial and in a codependent state. No one else is responsible for your happieness but YOU. Someone can't take your joy if you don't give it to them.

Most of the times these things that manifest as an outer problem, are really inner "self" problems. For instance, many girls who don't have dads they are close to will look to an older man for that comfort and approval they missed as a child....they end up smothering him as well. Many older guys who are insecure and don't feel attractive will cling to younger women for looks and what not, but in reality they don't really connect on a maturity level.

There are so many mistakes people make in relationships but eventually it i one of two choices...stay and stfu about it, or leave.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Naomi4u

Charles,

I agree.. but....

Have you been living under a rock? What trend? What about the girl that finds out she's pregnant and the family pressures her into marrying the baby daddy? Oh and the guy that meets the girl from match.com that's seeking admission into the U.S. He travels abroad, meets the family and marries her so he can bring her to the U.S. What current trend? Unplanned pregnancies? Last time I checked that has been the trend for a few years now. I know many people that did not live together before got married. The lady I am buying my house from was engaged and living alone until she got married. There are more and more of these cases than you think. If you believe that living together before marrying is the current trend then you've been misinformed.

Fact of the matter is people hardly ever marry for love anymore. If they did don't you think the divorce rate would be a bit lower? Top reasons people get married: They want someone around/Companionship, Security for Children, Legal status for Financial secuity or Response to family pressure. You can't even argue that. This is why most marriages fail.

How many men here can say honestly that they are in love with their wives? There is a big difference between being loving and being in love.

[**Removing the rock**]

Your examples (pregnancy, match.com, immigration) are all tired old stereotypes. Please cite to the data you checked b/c I don't think it is accurate.

And no, I disagree with you about the reasons people marry. I think they do marry for love. It's just they grow apart and that is why they get a divorce. Or they didn't make the decision to stay together. But I do think if you asked all the people who got married last year why they did so, all would say it was for love.

And I can argue the reasons you cite for why people get married. The top reason they would say is that they are in love.

You said:

So you mean to tell me that noone is telling this men "Wait untl you're ready", "Test the waters", "Go and have fun, you're too young to settle down"? Geez!

All I'm saying is that premarital cohabitation is now the trend. And here is MY evidence:

From the Minneapolis-St. Paul Star-Tribune: http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/104640024.html

A spike in unmarried couples living together follows the economic downturn, and it's rising faster in Minnesota.
By JEREMY OLSON, Star Tribune
Last update: October 10, 2010 - 7:07 AM

Jessica Peltier and her boyfriend sure look like a married couple -- they live together, drive their 3-year-old daughter to dance class at the YMCA, and bicker over laundry or empty cans sitting around.
The only thing missing, it seems, is the marriage.
"We plan on getting married," said Peltier, 22, "when money permits."
It's a common story growing more common in the economic downturn. New U.S. census estimates show the number of unmarried couples living together spiked nationally during the recent recession and rose even faster in Minnesota.
Demographers believe the increase is couples delaying marriage because of the cost, avoiding marriage altogether or moving in without a long-term plan because of short-term financial pressures.
While cohabitation has increased over 30 years, the uptick surprised experts. The Current Population Survey showed an increase nationally from 6.7 million unmarried couples living together in 2009 to 7.5 million couples in 2010. Census researcher Rose Kreider figured the 13 percent jump was a mistake.
"Usually when you see a big change like that," she said, "we've done something wrong."
Kreider verified the increase and found a likely explanation: Couples who recently moved in together were less likely to have jobs than couples who lived together more than a year.
Joblessness "might be one of the push factors getting these couples to say, 'OK, do we really need two addresses? Maybe it's just time we moved in,'" she said.
120,000 unmarried couples
State-level estimates aren't available in the Current Population Survey for 2010, but are through the Census Bureau's larger American Community Survey, which released 2009 data last week.
More than 120,000 households -- 6.5 percent of all Minnesota households -- consisted of unmarried couples, according to the 2009 data. That was up 14 percent since 2007. Nationally, unmarried couples made up 5.7 percent of all households in 2009, a 5 percent increase since 2007.
That larger survey underestimates the number of couples living together by as much as 20 percent, though. It tracks relationships of primary householders, but not relationships of secondary residents such as Peltier and her boyfriend, Andrew Demeny, who pay rent to live in her mother's basement.
Eventually, the couple plan to marry and move out. Peltier is a nanny and her boyfriend a security guard at Menards. He plans to train as an auto mechanic and she is on a waiting list for dentistry school.
It's unclear why cohabitation is rising faster in Minnesota. The state has more married couples living together, fewer divorces and separations, and fewer multiple-generation households, said Steven Ruggles, director of the University of Minnesota's state Population Center.
"People are all coupled up," he said.
That could create a social norm in which unmarried couples also want to live together.
Stigma still apparent
The "living in sin" stigma is less than it was 30 years ago, when landlords denied apartments to unmarried couples, Ruggles noted.
But it hasn't disappeared.
After Jenifer Wical moved in with her boyfriend in Andover, she learned that her church wouldn't perform their wedding ceremony unless they first got legally married or moved apart. The middle-aged couple instead hired a pastor to marry them at a Wisconsin vineyard. The savings from living together made it affordable.
Most unmarried couples living together will split up or get married within two years, said Sheela Kennedy, a University of Minnesota demographer who studies cohabitation. Only 14 percent are unmarried and living together five years later.
Beyond economics, a major reason for more cohabitation is couples who have children but don't get married, she said. For others, moving in is a "natural extension of dating," she said.
"First you leave a toothbrush, and then maybe some clothes, and then eventually it doesn't make sense to pay rent on two apartments," she said.
Natalie Lemke moved in last year with her boyfriend, David, after he needed surgery and wasn't strong enough to work. "At first he was just 'staying' with me," Lemke said. "After a few months, it just seemed right to move in together."
They married last month.

[Chellablaine]

Exactly Eccie! People do not change, we may mask who we really are, but in the end you are who you are. Id rather someone know my bad stuff first, that way it can never get worse lol.

What I find amusing here is men seem to complain about lack of sex after children. For many men, all you have to do is go to work and come home. A womans job as wife, mother, driver, etc. is never done. It is exhausting and takes a toll on your body, and will age you very quickly. From my own experience and that of other married friends, if a guy would just lift a finger to help out, pamper her a lil, make her feel sexy and appreciated....you might just get laid.

We try to look our best in the hobby so you guys will see us. A wife who is appreciated will take care of herself for her husband. Her body is your body, and quite frankly when I lost myself for a few years in being married, let myself go...it was telling him this is no longer yours. More or less a reflection of our relationship which was ending. When I got it back, it was like telling him you had your chance, its still not yours, but everyone elses, lol.

How many men do you know who get divorced or break off with a gf, then she gets hot again? Ya might wanna think about that one....maybe its the man who was the issue. If you are treated like shit then you feel like shit and it shows.

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

[B]
[**Removing the rock**]

Your examples (pregnancy, match.com, immigration) are all tired old stereotypes. Please cite to the data you checked b/c I don't think it is accurate.[COLOR=Blue]

It's really not old stereotypes. Ok .. believe what you want.

And no, I disagree with you about the reasons people marry. I think they do marry for love. It's just they grow apart and that is why they get a divorce. Or they didn't make the decision to stay together. But I do think if you asked all the people who got married last year why they did so, all would say it was for love.

Though I am not an expert on such issues, I don't believe that anyone can stop loving anyone completely. If he/she does so, then it would mean that he/she never really loved the other person truly. Like I said there is a big difference between loving and being in love. If the married men on this site were in love with their wives would they be here? If the answer is yes then.. that's scary.

And I can argue the reasons you cite for why people get married. The top reason they would say is that they are in love

I'm glad you said it that way at least..

You posted a frickin news article as your evidence? Try again.

[Naomi4u]

Here's my evidence: The hobby. Did you forget? I date fuck/date married men on a daily basis. I am going by what they tell me. Yes I get my information from the source and not some bloody news article ( Hi Val ). Most of the men here are miserable in their relationship. They're here because they're missing something in their relationship. If their relationship was so full of love they really wouldn't be here. You can't say you love someone and cheat on them with a HOT 21 year old. Can you? When I love someone the last thing I am thinking about is fucking someone else. Sorry.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Chellablaine

What I find amusing here is men seem to complain about lack of sex after children. For many men, all you have to do is go to work and come home. A womans job as wife, mother, driver, etc. is never done. It is exhausting and takes a toll on your body, and will age you very quickly. From my own experience and that of other married friends, if a guy would just lift a finger to help out, pamper her a lil, make her feel sexy and appreciated....you might just get laid.

We try to look our best in the hobby so you guys will see us. A wife who is appreciated will take care of herself for her husband. Her body is your body, and quite frankly when I lost myself for a few years in being married, let myself go...it was telling him this is no longer yours. More or less a reflection of our relationship which was ending. When I got it back, it was like telling him you had your chance, its still not yours, but everyone elses, lol.

How many men do you know who get divorced or break off with a gf, then she gets hot again? Ya might wanna think about that one....maybe its the man who was the issue. If you are treated like shit then you feel like shit and it shows.

You're so full of it, the whites of your eyes are brown!

I was the primary caretaker of my daughter until she got to kinder. Took care of her several more hours a day than the SO, and certainly changed more diapers than she did. She admits that, too. In addition, I did most of the chores around the house. Yes, it's like having a job with overtime. But, I did more than just lift a finger, so gfy. Still, the sex ended at birth.

And the SO has no complaints, 'cause I've asked. I'm considerate. She knows she is loved. But that hasn't done anything about the sex. We haven't had sex in years. The last time I tried (years ago), she rejected me, and I haven't tried since, nor will I.

Some women get better looking after divorce, others don't. So, that theory of yours isn't worth much, either.

When you make broad, sweeping generalizations like you did above, you're going to be wrong. Like you are now.

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I was the primary caretaker of my daughter until she got to kinder. Took care of her several more hours a day than the SO, and certainly changed more diapers than she did. She admits that, too. In addition, I did most of the chores around the house. Yes, it's like having a job with overtime. But, I did more than just lift a finger, so gfy. Still, the sex ended at birth.

And the SO has no complaints, 'cause I've asked. I'm considerate. She knows she is loved. But that hasn't done anything about the sex. We haven't had sex in years. The last time I tried (years ago), she rejected me, and I haven't tried since, nor will I.

Some women get better looking after divorce, others don't. So, that theory of yours isn't worth much, either.

When you make broad, sweeping generalizations like you did above, you're going to be wrong. Like you are now.

You're right Charles. I actually agree with you. There are MANY men here that have done everything RIGHT and their wives still won't give them any. If she does, it's the boring missionary style sex.. no bjs, no greek.. ha! Oh but she'll spend their money though. So they end up paying, providing, paying and not getting. Wives are a lot more expensive than escorts...the men here just don't realize that until later )) I say do a better job finding a life partner but it's a bit too latE for that.

Edit: However, I just went back and read Chella's post. Sounds like she was speaking from experience.

[Chellablaine]

Well gee Charles, I was speaking from experience. Oh and the day you give birth, you can then tell me that it doesnt affect the hormones which in return affects the sex drive! Men have it made. And maybe your an exception being that you were a caregiver, the majority of men ARE NOT!

So I wont be rude or ugly and tell you to go fuck yourself like you so rudely told me to do. By the way, if you are so wonderful and great, then why are you in this? seems to me like a great catch like yourself wouldnt have to pay for ass. All of your comments are always very negative.

I was responding to men who made the complaints of no sex after baby, and gave my own experience...and that of friends as well. Oh and all the friends who got divorced from their asshole husbands who didnt help out, well they are all now smoking hot. It does happen, at least some of the time.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Naomi4u

Though I am not an expert on such issues, I don't believe that anyone can stop loving anyone completely. If he/she does so, then it would mean that he/she never really loved the other person truly. Like I said there is a big difference between loving and being in love. If the married men on this site were in love with their wives would they be here? If the answer is yes then.. that's scary.

You posted a frickin news article as your evidence? Try again.

Originally Posted by Naomi4u

[So, you removed this post before I could respond? Real brave.] Here's my evidence: The hobby. Did you forget? I date fuck/date married men on a daily basis. I am going by what they tell me. Yes I get my information from the source and not some bloody news article ( Hi Val ). Most of the men here are miserable in their relationship. They're here because they're missing something in their relationship. If their relationship was so full of love they really wouldn't be here. You can't say you love someone and cheat on them with a HOT 21 year old. Can you? When I love someone the last thing I am thinking about is fucking someone else. Sorry.

Naomi, sometimes you're so clueless, it's sad.

Yes, it was a news article, but if you had bothered to ACTUALLY read it, you would have discovered the trigger was Census Bureau data. The same data that triggered similar news articles all over the country.

And, as I pointed out before, your sampling is a skewed sample, so it can't be very legitimate with it comes to current trends. The only current trend I was talking about was the trend for people to live together before marriage.

You were the one who said it's what men should have done. I'm agreeing with you, and showing that it is a current trend, and you're trying to fight with me over it. Sheesh!

Yeah, you may be fuckin' 50 yos, and you're getting stories about their unhappiness, but you really can't extrapolate that to the trends among 20 yos. Data from the Census Bureau can do that. You can't even do that for yourself b/c even though you're in your 20s, you aren't dating civvies.

[Chellablaine]

Naomi, theres no point in arguing with him...hes one of "those guys." No wonder....

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Naomi, sometimes you're so clueless, it's sad.

Not really. You're the one that's a bit clueless Charlie boy.

Yes, it was a news article, but if you had bothered to ACTUALLY read it, you would have discovered the trigger was Census Bureau data. The same data that triggered similar news articles all over the country.

You're right I did not read the article.

You were the one who said it's what men should have done. I'm agreeing with you, and showing that it is a current trend, and you're trying to fight with me over it. Sheesh!

I do it on purpose..
I love to argue. It turns me on.

Yeah, you may be fuckin' 50 yos,

and damn proud of it.

...and you're getting stories about their unhappiness, but you really can't extrapolate that to the trends among 20 yos. Data from the Census Bureau can do that. You can't even do that for yourself b/c even though you're in your 20s, you aren't dating civvies.

Ok I agree. You know it all. You know everything Charles!!! Are you happy now?

Oh and I didn't remove my post because of you.
I reposted. Why the shitty attitude? Geezz!

[London Rayne]

He has a right to his feelings just as we all do guys...cmon. We ALL speak and/or polluted by our own experiences, so they are going to be bias to some degree. In my experience I think the "Wife won't have sex with me" excuse is more than played out. I know one thing this business has taught me is that you don't have to FEEL like doing something to do it, and well. I was 9 months pregnant and still on my knees every time my ex wanted a bj. There were times I was sick, tired, and literally drained yet I was still happy to be with him that way. I made a choice that was not based on my feelings. Every one of us is capable of this too. It's all a matter of how much you value your relationship and to what degree you are willing to work at it.