The Corrupt Ukraine Scam

[HDGristle]

Not required. Well, it is for your points. Not mine. Please try again.

You're cold

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

Not required. Well, it is for your points. Not mine. Please try again.

You're cold

then counter my points.


tell me why this isn't the US and NATO's fault by pushing a stanch ex-commie KGB lackey, Putin (he's still a commie the US and NATO knew that) into extreme action.


we provoked an ex-commie (still a commie) and we didn't think he'd do anything about it?


our vaunted Intel community, instead of fabricating lies upon likes about Trump, shoulda been watching our provocation in Europe .. oh wait .. never mind they instigated it. and look what happened.


son, you really need to look at the world differently. and who's really at fault for it's ills.

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

did he? or did the US and NATO break many agreements starting in the 1990's with Gorby to NOT expand NATO? then in 2014 after yet again Ukraine not allowing a referendum in the Donbas to be part of Russia? or at least semi-autonomous ..


who here thinks Ukraine really wanted a referendum they agreed to when they knew the bulk of the eastern Ukraine are ethnic Russians? they knew they'd vote to be part of Russia which is why UKRAINE deliberately broke that agreement.


don't bother to mention that then Ukraine president Poroshenko was Pro-Russia. he was gone by 2019 then the clown came into power. what did Zelensky do about it? escalated the conflict. brilliant!


what did that do? why continue the conflict in east Ukraine by pro-Russia groups against their corrupt oppressors .. Ukraine and Zelensky.


then here comes Biden, who like Obama expressed support for Ukraine to join NATO. what exactly did that dumbass Obama think vlad putin would do?


he invaded Crimea.


what did Putin do while Trump was president? nothing. i find it amusing how many here claim Trump was Putin's "lapdog" yet Putin made no moves against Ukraine while Trump was president.


rather impossible to claim given the facts isn't it??


"If" Trump was under Putin's control the perfect time to invade Ukraine would have been while Trump was president.


then why didn't it happen??

you know why. Trump opposed US involvement in NATO as he should and would have blocked Ukraine's admittance to NATO and not because Putin told him to. because he knew NATO is a leech sucking big bucks from the US to help them defend their own countries and called them out for it. and he was right.


Imperialist America and NATO starting yet another conflict for the benefit of the Military Industrial Complex.

Now you are going to confuse the leftists and warmongers by posting all these actual facts in detail

Their heads can't handle the truth you posted

[HDGristle]

That would be Putin, Waco. I know you don't agree and want to give him cover. That's your prerogative.

You're ice cold now.

[HDGristle]

Ukraine has regained another 2km in Bakhmut. Heavy fighting as the Russians regroup to try to assault and retake Kupyansk and Lyman.

Ukraine continues to cross the Dnieper in the South.

The gains near Urozhaine have given them one healthy vector into the 1st set of Russia's 4 tier defenses. If they retake Robotyne and consolidate the area the attacks on certain supply infrastructure will squeeze other parts of the line.

[HDGristle]

Speaking of ice cold, many Russian mines are anything but cold. They pick up heat during the day, and the Ukranian forces have been using drones with thermal cameras to spot them in the evening as part of their de-mining efforts

This is on addition to the use of thermal scopes used to detect "careless smoking" among the Russian troops which exposes their positions.

Well spent $ at 5k a pop

[Big Daddy Joe]

Originally Posted by tommy156

Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦 🇺🇦 🇺🇦 Heroyam slava!

This war of choice is 100% Putin's fault and bringing an end to it is 100% his responsibility. Not sure why so many in here refuse to see these simple truths, but that's on them (actually I do know why, but saying it will get me pointed).

Anyway, there is no "peaceful settlement" that involves Ukraine budging a single millimeter. Russia is illegally invading a sovereign nation. Russia, get the fuck out. Period.

Because those simple truths do not fit into their fantasy of Putin and trump spooning in the dictator club together.
These people that blame Ukraine for the war are Hitlers henchmen reincarnated.
They are well aware of your simple truths, they don't care!

[Jacuzzme]

The war there is in large part the responsibility of crooked US politicians. Had we not meddled in their regional politics under Obama, tens of thousands of people would still be alive.

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

The war there is in large part the responsibility of crooked US politicians. Had we not meddled in their regional politics under Obama, tens of thousands of people would still be alive.

They would indeed.

And now the crooked politicians led by Senile Biden who we all know was previously bribed by Ukraine who has the goods on him, keep getting people killed because they don't want a peace agreement in place

[berryberry]

OOOOOF

Bribes and hiding at home: the Ukrainian men trying to avoid conscription

At the last military checkpoint before he exited Ukraine in April, a 39-year-old man from Odesa handed over papers showing he had a serious spinal injury, thus exempting him from military service and from the ban on adult men leaving the country.

“One of the soldiers said, ‘That hospital really likes this diagnosis, huh?’” recalled the man. “I could see they knew exactly what was going on, and it wasn’t the first time. But they were powerless to do anything, so waved me through,” he said.

The man, who asked for anonymity to discuss the matter, admitted that he had paid a $5,000 bribe to escape a potential draft into the Ukrainian army and service on the front lines in the war with Russia.

“I knew there was no way I would be able to sit in a trench, so I took my savings and contacted a ‘fixer’. Everyone knows where to find them. I paid in cash, they sent me to a hospital to do a spinal MRI; the hospital gave me a medical report claiming I had a major spinal defect, and with that I could get papers allowing me to leave the country. I had the feeling that, at every stage of the way, people knew what was happening and were getting a cut,” said the man.

The whole process took two weeks; the man was able to leave Ukraine and now lives elsewhere in Europe.

It is believed that tens of thousands of Ukrainian men have left the country illegally since the full-scale war with Russia started last February, many by paying bribes. On Friday, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, fired every regional military recruitment head in the country, citing endemic corruption in the apparatus.

“This system should be run by people who know exactly what war is and why cynicism and bribery during war is treason,” he said in a video address.

Odesa has emerged as a particular hotspot for draft evasion schemes, with a recruitment official arrested after he was found to have $5m in savings and a lavish property in Spain. But across Ukraine, there are reports of corrupt officials willing to take bribes from people eager to buy their way out of the draft. There are more than 100 other criminal proceedings against enlistment officials.

“The cynicism is the same everywhere,” Zelenskiy said on Friday. “Illicit enrichment, legalisation of illegally obtained funds, unlawful benefit, illegal transfer of persons liable for military service across the border.”

While the corruption scandal has made headlines, it hints at an even more troubling story for Ukraine as the country approaches the 18-month mark since Vladimir Putin’s full-scale invasion.

In the first weeks after the invasion, hundreds of thousands of ordinary Ukrainians volunteered to serve at the front in an explosion of patriotism that helped keep the country independent and fight off the initial attack.

More than a year later, however, many of those initial recruits are now dead, wounded or simply exhausted, and the army needs new recruits to fill the ranks. By now, most of those who want to fight have already signed up, leaving the military to recruit among a much more reluctant pool of men.
.
.
Other people simply stay at home. A factory owner in eastern Ukraine said the threat of being grabbed by conscription officers on the morning commute meant some workers were too scared to go to work.

He said: “I met a guy who told me he was taken from the street and within a week his unit was starting to attack a village near Bakhmut. And he told me ‘What the fuck – it is the first time I picked up a rifle and after a week I go to attack this village’. He was shot twice, once in the arm and once in the back.”

Mobilised recruits receive several weeks of training before being sent to the front. Many are sent to Britain for brief courses in the essentials of frontline combat, although the training often appears to be rudimentary.

In Lviv, one man who was served with mobilisation papers outside a supermarket in the city said he was conscripted, sent to Britain for training, dispatched to the frontline and then wounded all within a two-month time span.

The stakes have left many people reluctant to comply with mobilisation calls, and those who receive the initial set of papers often lock themselves away to avoid being dragged to the recruitment office.

“There are two categories of people – one is already in the army and the other is too scared to go outside so as not to be conscripted, and no salary will make them leave their houses,” said the factory owner.

[HDGristle]

Dodgers in any other army. Like folks who pretend to have bone spurs.

Neither shocking nor novel.

Oooof. Grrr. Argh

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

That would be Putin, Waco. I know you don't agree and want to give him cover. That's your prerogative.

You're ice cold now.

facts are cold aren't they? and who's covering for vlad when the facts are that the US and NATO provoked Russia. and Ukraine isn't the Lilly white vestal virgin some want to think they are.

anyone who contends Russia is 100 percent to blame is 100 percent wrong.

Originally Posted by HDGristle

Dodgers in any other army. Like folks who pretend to have bone spurs.

Neither shocking nor novel.

Oooof. Grrr. Argh

or like presidents who pretend to have asthma. and took 5 deferments. now who might that be? hint .. it's not Trump.

[HDGristle]

I'm willing to assign 5% blame to the U.S., 10% to Ukraine. The rest is Vlad. Sorry.

Ice age level cold, now.

As for fake asthma, yep, that's up there along with pretending to go to college and fleeing the country outright.

Thank you valued poster.

[berryberry]

While many Ukranian's run and hide to avoid being conscripted and sent out in the meat grinder to lose limbs or die, in Russia there is this

[HDGristle]

They lost over 1,000,000 of their best and brightest who fled to avoid conscription, berry.

Did you not pay attention to the Russian flight that occurred? Do you even know what their conscription process is like? Which ethnic groups have been disproportionately called up? Where they live?

The folks referenced in that article were the rich who got richer. Not the folks doing the fighting.