How are we going to beat this?

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

Key here is "zero proof". Self admitted fail.

Well... except for: What are the addresses on those ballots?

• Ballots mailed to vacant lots -- or in Arizona, street corners.
• Ballots sent to apartment buildings without the unit or APT number.
• Ballots sent to college dorms for students registered there for decades.
• Ballots sent to fraternities with a 105-year-old student.
• Ballots sent to churches -- which have no bedrooms, thus cannot be someone’s domicile.
• Ballots for the person who moved -- over a year ago.
• Ballots mailed to hotels and casinos.
• Ballots where the address was modified -- by the voter commission (as in Arizona) -- the week those ballots went out, thus missing the recipient.
• Ballots sent to Manchurian restaurants, laundromats, banks, and 7-Elevens -- all of which are not valid addresses for voters.
• Ballots sent to UPS and FedEx boxes -- sometimes to a dozen people living in that little box.
• Ballots sent to the apartment building -- but the address is the clubhouse -- which has no bedrooms.
• Ballots sent to the 22,000 new voters in a single county entered just days before the election -- who were invisible to Arizona Republican candidates in 2022.
• Ballots sent to Mr. Gonzales, Mr. Gonzalez, Mr. Gonzalles, all at the same address with the same date of birth.
• Ballots sent to the Wisconsin college dorm that has 1,000 registered voters but can house only 250 adults.
• Ballots sent to the 11 adults at the single-family Houston home that is 823 square feet with one bedroom and one bathroom.
• Ballots mailed to people registered at an address in 2020 but the building was not built until 2022.
• Ballots sent to the rehab facility for dozens of people who claim it as a residence for years. (Rehab is not a “years” thing.)

A salient point to keep in mind. That level of fraud was not an option before 2020. Why? Because 37 states changed their voting laws (most extra-judicially) because of the covid.

From the Good News side of the technology: It's not just a shooting behind the duck sort of thing. It is meant to perform in advance, i.e. in real time, to detect anomalies and can be set up to monitor changing data sets.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Tossing this in separately. It might make more sense, in context, in the next post or two.

From Wikipedia:

Steganography (/ˌstɛɡəˈnɒɡrəfi/STEG-ə-NOG-rə-fee) is the practice of representing information within another message or physical object, in such a manner that the presence of the information is not evident to human inspection. In computing/electronic contexts, a computer file, message, image, or video is concealed within another file, message, image, or video. The word steganography comes from Greek steganographia, which combines the words steganós (στεγανός), meaning "covered or concealed", and -graphia (γραφή) meaning "writing".[1]

The first recorded use of the term was in 1499 by Johannes Trithemius in his Steganographia, a treatise on cryptography and steganography, disguised as a book on magic. Generally, the hidden messages appear to be (or to be part of) something else: images, articles, shopping lists, or some other cover text. For example, the hidden message may be in invisible ink between the visible lines of a private letter. Some implementations of steganography that lack a shared secret are forms of security through obscurity, and key-dependent steganographic schemes adhere to Kerckhoffs's principle.[2]

The advantage of steganography over cryptography alone is that the intended secret message does not attract attention to itself as an object of scrutiny. Plainly visible encrypted messages, no matter how unbreakable they are, arouse interest and may in themselves be incriminating in countries in which encryption is illegal.[3]

Whereas cryptography is the practice of protecting the contents of a message alone, steganography is concerned with concealing the fact that a secret message is being sent and its contents.

Steganography includes the concealment of information within computer files. In digital steganography, electronic communications may include steganographic coding inside of a transport layer, such as a document file, image file, program, or protocol. Media files are ideal for steganographic transmission because of their large size. For example, a sender might start with an innocuous image file and adjust the color of every hundredth pixel to correspond to a letter in the alphabet. The change is so subtle that someone who is not specifically looking for it is unlikely to notice the change...

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Found this in the comments section from the OP article: https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...lot_fraud.html

When Steve asked Jay Valentine—Who is at the helm and where are the receipts. His answer was:
Election Commissioners, the only people who can change election data or another government body or a government body that let somebody else do it—or a different gremlin.

The different gremlin is an embedded algorithm(s), likely controlled by a highly sophisticated intel operation—our own or foreign. The Election Commissioners ‘may’ or ‘may not’ be aware of it.

Jay Valentine’s incredible Fractal technology is the ‘Sonar.’ It can tract the monthly/weekly serpentine movement of the algorithm, which adds and subtracts data as it closes in on the election.

But Fractal can not actually see it, prove it’s existence or describe its operating mechanism, because it is steganographically hidden.

The Enigma of systemic election fraud in New York State is deciphered. Andrew Paquette, Ph.D. aka “Dr. Art Zark,” has broken the code and reverse engineered an algorithm steganographically hidden within the NY State Board of Elections ID data base. He has the receipts. He has written several articles for American Thinker, but I believe, not on this topic

His study was peer reviewed by three data scientists.The algorithm clones voter ID records.

There are millions of voter ID’s that appear in the State data base, but do not appear in the county data bases. 21 million lines of ID data contain millions of lines of cloned ID numbers that have been dealt into the data base from the bottom of several decks of cards. They are controlled by the hidden algorithm(s).

Election officials at the county level are not aware that millions of these cloned registrants exist. State officials also may not know or won’t admit they do know.

Here is an incredible presentation presented by New York Citizens Audit, Executive Director, Marly Hornick offered to the New York State Legislature—who essentially ignored her provable revelation. For you data experts and cyber geeks “Dr Art Zark” demonstrates at about 24:00 to 39:20


https://rumble.com/v2mar94-ny-citize...may-1-202.html


https://www.uncoverdc.com/2023/05/25...-ny-elections/

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Follow the science, they said. It will be fun they said. Enter the data scientists. Ta-Da!

Side Note: I have been around some peoples like this in a couple research centers, in the US and UK. They exist in a different realm. Super brilliant, yet probably can't actually tie their own shoes. At one research lab, they had an elaborate motion detection system just for turning lights on and off all over the place. When I asked about it, they told me it was because these scientists don't remember to turn on or off lights as they move about at all hours of the day and night

From the 2nd URL in the previous post:

Catastrophic “Loss of Control” Data Breach in NY Elections
By Wendi Strauch Mahoney - May 25, 2023

...In July 2021, Hornik and Paquette assembled a group of volunteers in New York that has grown to around 2000 individuals statewide to investigate the state’s voter registration rolls. Hornik presented the group’s preliminary findings to attendees at The Pit, sponsored by True the Vote, in August 2022.

In her recent letter to New York citizens, Hornik explains the seriousness of the group’s findings:

“Through auditing the voter roll databases, obtained directly from state and local boards of elections, we have uncovered millions of invalid registrations, hundreds of thousands of votes cast by legally invalid registrations, hundreds of thousands of votes cast by legally invalid registrants, massive vote discrepancies, and the clear presence of algorithmic patterns we reverse engineered from within the state’s own official records.

To be absolutely clear, there is no known innocent purpose or explanation for why these algorithms exist. I am told by cyber-intelligence experts they indicate a ‘Total Loss of Control’ data breach, the most severe kind of data breach recognized by our federal government. The law says it renders the affected NYSVoter database completely untrustworthy.”...

For the math challenged out there: Yes Virginia, hundreds of thousands and millions are much, much more than zero.

The study above was a peer reviewed study.
Let that sink in...

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Well... except for: What are the addresses on those ballots?

• Ballots mailed to vacant lots -- or in Arizona, street corners.
• Ballots sent to apartment buildings without the unit or APT number.
• Ballots sent to college dorms for students registered there for decades.
• Ballots sent to fraternities with a 105-year-old student.
• Ballots sent to churches -- which have no bedrooms, thus cannot be someone’s domicile.
• Ballots for the person who moved -- over a year ago.
• Ballots mailed to hotels and casinos.
• Ballots where the address was modified -- by the voter commission (as in Arizona) -- the week those ballots went out, thus missing the recipient.
• Ballots sent to Manchurian restaurants, laundromats, banks, and 7-Elevens -- all of which are not valid addresses for voters.
• Ballots sent to UPS and FedEx boxes -- sometimes to a dozen people living in that little box.
• Ballots sent to the apartment building -- but the address is the clubhouse -- which has no bedrooms.
• Ballots sent to the 22,000 new voters in a single county entered just days before the election -- who were invisible to Arizona Republican candidates in 2022.
• Ballots sent to Mr. Gonzales, Mr. Gonzalez, Mr. Gonzalles, all at the same address with the same date of birth.
• Ballots sent to the Wisconsin college dorm that has 1,000 registered voters but can house only 250 adults.
• Ballots sent to the 11 adults at the single-family Houston home that is 823 square feet with one bedroom and one bathroom.
• Ballots mailed to people registered at an address in 2020 but the building was not built until 2022.
• Ballots sent to the rehab facility for dozens of people who claim it as a residence for years. (Rehab is not a “years” thing.)

A salient point to keep in mind. That level of fraud was not an option before 2020. Why? Because 37 states changed their voting laws (most extra-judicially) because of the covid.

From the Good News side of the technology: It's not just a shooting behind the duck sort of thing. It is meant to perform in advance, i.e. in real time, to detect anomalies and can be set up to monitor changing data sets.

You and others just don't get it. Ballots that are mailed incorrectly do NOT correlate to fraudulent votes cast. I doubt any of the claims made led to fraudulent votes cast but I realize I will never convince you of that. But I would like to know the source of your information.

Living in the state of Texas, I am aware of the checking procedures of mail-in ballots that goes on to verify that the ballots are valid. Signatures must match. Duplicate ballots by the same person are impossible. Ballot checkers are from both sides of the aisle. And close to zero fraud was found in mail-in balloting in 2020. Or 2022.

Even if true, which I sincerely doubt, what you have presented is BS in proving fraudulent votes were cast in the election.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Follow the science, they said. It will be fun they said. Enter the data scientists. Ta-Da!

Side Note: I have been around some peoples like this in a couple research centers, in the US and UK. They exist in a different realm. Super brilliant, yet probably can't actually tie their own shoes. At one research lab, they had an elaborate motion detection system just for turning lights on and off all over the place. When I asked about it, they told me it was because these scientists don't remember to turn on or off lights as they move about at all hours of the day and night

From the 2nd URL in the previous post: For the math challenged out there: Yes Virginia, hundreds of thousands and millions are much, much more than zero.

The study above was a peer reviewed study.
Let that sink in...

Interesting. In 2016 Trump got 36.5% of the vote in NY. In 2020 Trump got 37.7% of the vote. Seems like the increase in mail-in voting actually helped Trump. lol.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Interesting. In 2016 Trump got 36.5% of the vote in NY. In 2020 Trump got 37.7% of the vote. Seems like the increase in mail-in voting actually helped Trump. lol.

As you know, that's anecdotal. Trump persuaded many Republicans that their votes may not be counted if they submit mail in ballots. This cost Republican candidates votes, in New York and other places.

I don't see the problem with requiring people to go to polling places to cast votes. Of course, absentee voting should be allowed for those with valid excuses, like people out of the country, in the military, or with disabilities. The belief that this would disadvantage Democrats is misplaced. Democrats are just as or more motivated to go to polling places as Republicans, especially if Trump's at the top of the ticket.

Making mail in voting less common will reduce voting fraud, although probably you're right, not enough to make a difference in elections. More importantly, it will give a lot of people more confidence in our electoral system, and thus reduce the divisiveness in America.

[Tigbitties38]

How can you see where I got "tripped up" when you don't even understand the story from your own link?
American Thinker? How about "American Moron"?

The gist of the article is election fraud through the use of mail-in ballots. The “anecdotal retort” is not irrelevant to the story other than the fact it isn't true. Besides being the subject of the OP, it's a fake message from a typical, unverified source. Yes, we know it is an anecdote and not an actual message like the article claims.

It is quoted numerous times in the article and it is claimed to be an actual message from a retired mail carrier (“To the rescue, however, comes a retired mail carrier who sent the following message:”)

It is the subject of the OP. It is indicative of the type of “evidence” trumpys use as proof of their conspiracy theories. In an attempt to add proof to baseless claims of election fraud, the same debunked lies are used over and over. They show no proof they interviewed other mail carriers. There are no documented instances of affidavits filled detailing illegal use of the ballots. No others have come forward to tell the story under oath.

The note doesn't even say which election it is referring to

You tripped up by believing information you should have looked up yourself. Like "super-compute technology" (compute is a verb and is used incorrectly, by supposed "experts", at least 3 times). Now I don't expect you super smart guys to catch stuff like that or other glaring issues with the story that indicate the story is fake or thrown together. You should understand those obvious things don't happen at a legitimate news organization (on a regular basis). Not even at Fox.

I know that no matter how well I explain something, provide links to information, or shoot down your weak/obviously false claims, you are incapable of changing your mind when presented with new information. I'll get over it.

You will not admit fault no matter how compelling the evidence is. I don't need for you to admit you're wrong while you don't need proof to think you're right. It keeps me sharp to use critical thinking on a regular basis.
I just wish you could make it more of a challenge.


QUOTE=Why_Yes_I_Do;1063241612]I see where you got tripped up. The prerequisites are listed in the article URL. One must be A) An American and B) A Thinker. Beyond that, one would have to comprehend the overall gist of the topic(s) at hand. The anecdotal retort by a mail carrier is largely irrelevant, though indicative. BTW: you did catch the part where the author stated that they interviewed multiple mail carriers. Right?Wrong. The author claiming they interviewed multiple carriers doesn’t mean shit. (A simple mail carrier, supported by other mail carriers we interviewed in person, shows how completely) Oh, also the multiple cities and States mentioned. Right? Wrong. Mentioning a city here, a state there is not giving an address.

[/QUOTE]

[Tigbitties38]

I don't have a problem with positive voter ID or going to the polling locations.
Making mail in ballots less common will reduce what voter fraud? If you had proof of any (hundreds? Thousands?) mail in ballot fraud, you should have released it sooner.
What people will have more confidence in our electoral system? Trump's own cyber security guy, as well as W. Barr claimed this was the most secure election to date. And let's not even listen to them. What evidence has been found that any significant number of votes were counted?
The people who lack confidence are the people who listened to Trump's baseless claims. The major source of divisiveness comes from trump and his supporters who listen to his bullshit about election fraud. You even admitted that trump persuaded his own supporters that their votes might not be counted if mailed in. The vast majority of election uncertainty is induced by trump.

Still waiting on proof of any major election fraud while trump and co have yet to show any proof. How many of his former attorneys are facing disbarment?

It's not up to you or me to determine who gets a mail in ballot. If you think tighter election laws will reduce friction, I think that's very unlikely. It wasn't really an issue until 2020Numerous states have used extensive mail in ballots for quite some time without issues. Trump has made many and continues to make false/debunked statements about our elections. He even claimed the election he won was rigged.

Originally Posted by Tiny

As you know, that's anecdotal. Trump persuaded many Republicans that their votes may not be counted if they submit mail in ballots. This cost Republican candidates votes, in New York and other places.

I don't see the problem with requiring people to go to polling places to cast votes. Of course, absentee voting should be allowed for those with valid excuses, like people out of the country, in the military, or with disabilities. The belief that this would disadvantage Democrats is misplaced. Democrats are just as or more motivated to go to polling places as Republicans, especially if Trump's at the top of the ticket.

Making mail in voting less common will reduce voting fraud, although probably you're right, not enough to make a difference in elections. More importantly, it will give a lot of people more confidence in our electoral system, and thus reduce the divisiveness in America.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

You and others just don't get it. Let me 'splain it to you Lucy. It's about leaving tracks in the snow. That's how electronic and mail-in fraud works. No tracks? Didn't happen. But are you any good at actually tracking? I doubt you read the articles with either a critical or knowledgeable eye.

Let's look:

• Send a ballot to a scam address
• It bounces and gets returned - if and only if it was sent via First Class postage
• It ends up in a dead letter bin and nobody knows n'uttin 'bout n'uttin
• Basically, it becomes lost in the sauce
• Viola, a ballot is returned for that bogus name or address, filled out (81 millions votes my ass)
• Scant little to absolutely zero signature or identity information
• Thank you for your vote

Another version:

• Moments before a ballot is sent out - poof, wrong zip code inserted
• Lands in the dead letter bin
• Viola, a ballot is returned, filled out
• Scant little to absolutely zero signature or identity information
• Thank you for your vote
• Change the zip code back in the database. Bazinga! Never happened

Maybe you missed how the vote counting actually worked in other States. But I expect it is because you desire to remain unaware. No real signature verification at all. Stopping counting and dismissing everyone, then returning to counting. Blocking one side from participating at all. Though I do have some confidence in Texas voting, which Trump carried the day in 2020, BTW.

Do you, at an intuitive or gutteral level, rationalize 6 swing states stopping counting at the exact same time, while Trump was in the lead (and consistently was) and just a few hours later - they all went to Biden in a split second. Is there any statistical relevancy for that?

If I was unspecific in the articles I quoted and posted in this thread - that's a you problem. You should look into that.

Plus, and it's a big plus - you appear to understand nothing about "big data" and how to manipulate it. Sadly, manipulation is the secondary problem in a way, detecting it is the hard part.

While it's unfortunate for you, I have an extensive background in it. Would seem you also missed the tangential applications like tax payer waste and fraud across multiple government entities. To catch it, use the science and technology at hand. I can't spoon feed entire datasets of information to you. I can point you to the well, but you have to lower the bucket to get the water. What?!? You don't trust the science finally?!? 'bout danged time, but not here.

Do you seriously and honestly believe everything on the internets? Better yet, are the internets permanent, repeatable and secure? While I am in da hood - do you understand fractals or steganography or Quantum computing, let alone big data?

But my real question, and there is no getting around it - wouldn't you feel better if a neutral third party was monitoring and analyzing the data diligently, in real time, all the time, to detect fraudulent patterns in these massive data sets - by the best and brightest minds on the planet - who don't even have a horse in the race? ( I think the two scientists mentioned were Dutch or Norwegian) Or are you gonna trust that the ESG and diversity hires will just do what they are told? Remember, many of the people you are trusting your world to are mostly unpaid ESG and diversity "volunteers", who have an axe to grind, i.e. partisans.

Perhaps you believe that the NYC data roles are peachy keen. OK, prove it. Don't suppose or speculate about it. The data scientists just proved it is corrupt on a massive scale via a peer-reviewed study and gave a presentation on it. Pony up soldier. Prove them wrong across the board.

Don't you have bigger fish to fry, like say your immune system's health and well being. Besides, shouldn't you be more concerned with getting you next booster shot?!? Trust the science I believe is the credo.

Anyway, you certainly picked a fine to to not trust the science Lucille. Yet you trust the 37 states that changed their voting laws, against the normal processes, in 2020. Go figure.

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

You and others just don't get it. Ballots that are mailed incorrectly do NOT correlate to fraudulent votes cast. I doubt any of the claims made led to fraudulent votes cast but I realize I will never convince you of that. But I would like to know the source of your information.

Living in the state of Texas, I am aware of the checking procedures of mail-in ballots that goes on to verify that the ballots are valid. Signatures must match. Duplicate ballots by the same person are impossible. Ballot checkers are from both sides of the aisle. And close to zero fraud was found in mail-in balloting in 2020. Or 2022.

Even if true, which I sincerely doubt, what you have presented is BS in proving fraudulent votes were cast in the election.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Tiny

...I don't see the problem with requiring people to go to polling places to cast votes. Of course, absentee voting should be allowed for those with valid excuses, like people out of the country, in the military, or with disabilities. The belief that this would disadvantage Democrats is misplaced. Democrats are just as or more motivated to go to polling places as Republicans, especially if Trump's at the top of the ticket...

Well... I'm still waiting on the list of names that would be disenfranchised from voting by requiring valid ID. To be fair, if they don't have valid ID, then I would expect they would not be traveling via plane or collecting any sort of government assistance or even have a bank account or any loans or much of any actual participation in society. But let's see the list to assess it. Surely its posted on-line somewhere. Heck, it's not like anybody can steal their identity since they don't have one ;-)

Originally Posted by Tiny

...Making mail in voting less common will reduce voting fraud, although probably you're right, not enough to make a difference in elections. More importantly, it will give a lot of people more confidence in our electoral system, and thus reduce the divisiveness in America.

Retro-vibe moment. Remember when that was the case? Back in the day, aka 2019, that was the case. Then 37 states changed their laws because the covid.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

...Living in the state of Texas, I am aware of the checking procedures of mail-in ballots that goes on to verify that the ballots are valid. Signatures must match. Duplicate ballots by the same person are impossible...

Texas does a decent job overall. I think it should be the model elsewhere and should be codified into law everywhere. If you cannot vote early in the two weeks allowed or on voting day - which BTW is when the votes are supposed to be counted - and you do not have a valid excuse for a mail-in or absentee vote ahead of time - then you are too stupid to vote.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Tigbitties38

Making mail in ballots less common will reduce what voter fraud? If you had proof of any (hundreds? Thousands?) mail in ballot fraud, you should have released it sooner.

Where did I mention hundreds or thousands of mail in ballots? What I wrote was,

Originally Posted by Tiny

Making mail in voting less common will reduce voting fraud, although probably you're right, not enough to make a difference in elections.

Just looking at the first page of the Heritage Foundation's election fraud database, 7 of the 15 cases of voter fraud involved mail in ballots.

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search

And in fact, I believe I did see an instance on the Heritage database where one perpetrator did cast sufficient fraudulent mail in votes for himself so that he was elected. I'm too lazy to try to look that up though.

Originally Posted by Tigbitties38

What people will have more confidence in our electoral system? ....If you think tighter election laws will reduce friction, I think that's very unlikely.

Well, in this thread, Redhot, Jackie, Jacuzzme, Farmstud, The Waco Kid, Salty, and WYID. That's 58% of the 12 posters!

I can't find a poll that asks voters specifically if if they'd have more confidence in elections if mail in ballots without excuses were not allowed. But the link below says only 44% of Republicans supported non-excuse absentee voting. And 78% of Trump supporters see mail in voting as "vulnerable to significant levels of fraud."

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ant-to-or-can/

There must be tens of millions of voters who have less confidence in our electoral system as a result of unrestricted mail in voting. Most of the people who trespassed on Capitol grounds on January 6 thought that. If you want to prevent incidents like January 6, make people more confident in election results. This is one way to do it. It's a lot cheaper than locking up Republicans.

Originally Posted by Tigbitties38

What evidence has been found that any significant number of votes were counted?

Huh? More votes were counted in 2020 than any other election. The problem is that many Americans believe a large number of those votes, many of them mail in votes, were from dead people and others who didn't actually cast the votes.

Originally Posted by Tigbitties38

Trump's own cyber security guy, as well as W. Barr claimed this was the most secure election to date. And let's not even listen to them.
The people who lack confidence are the people who listened to Trump's baseless claims. The major source of divisiveness comes from trump and his supporters who listen to his bullshit about election fraud.....The vast majority of election uncertainty is induced by trump.

Still waiting on proof of any major election fraud while trump and co have yet to show any proof. How many of his former attorneys are facing disbarment?

How's that relevant to what I posted? If you use reasonable safeguards like voter ID, voting at polling stations, etc, aren't you reducing the ability of people like Trump to make baseless claims about election fraud?

Originally Posted by Tigbitties38

Numerous states have used extensive mail in ballots for quite some time without issues.

Good point. I do believe states should set their own election laws, provided they're reasonable and don't disenfranchise people.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Remember when that was the case? Back in the day, aka 2019, that was the case. Then 37 states changed their laws because the covid.

Yeah, that increased the number of votes Biden received. But not enough to make a difference in the results, who was elected president.

[Tiny]

Btw Tigbitties, lots of Democratic politicians are election deniers too. Stacey Abrams, Robert Kennedy Jr, Jerry Nadler, and John Lewis come to mind. Many Democrats claimed fraud in 2000. In 2016 too. Kennedy’s claims about the 2004 election were crazier than Sidney Powell’s.