The home stretch to November 8th

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

One thing the republicans can do is to defund (there's that word again) what has been passed in the last two years. Like 87,000 IRS agents.

Good point. Everybody has an opinion on what to do first. How about a bill called "return every penny of the trillions that haven't been spent yet under penalty of law, to the US treasury where it can be re-routed to "make everything of any consequence to America, in America".


Then go about impeaching every single person Biden needed Senate approval for, starting with Mayorkissmyass.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by NiceGuy53

Biden may have pounded his gavel on January 6, 2017 and said it's over but he later said he absolutely agreed that Trump was an illegitimate president. And Hilliary may have conceded the 2016 election after being urged to do so by then President Obama but she has later said that Trump is an illegitimate president. You can't have it both ways. You are ignoring what both these politicians later said. There have been other Democrats who have publicly said that Trump was an illegitimate president. They are John Lewis, Elizabeth Warren, Jimmy Carter and Paul Krugman who later tried to deny that any Democrat had said Trump was illegitimate when he did so himself. One poll found that 57% of Americans aged 18-30 thought that Trump was an illegitimate president. On Trump's first full day in office, there was a women's march on Washington where Madonna said she has thought about blowing up the White House and she was wildly cheered by many in the crowd. The Washington Post estimated that 4.1 million people participated in these women marches across the country on January 21-22, 2017. And there was talk on the left about impeaching Trump before he had even taken the oath of office. If that wasn't questioning the legitimacy of Trump's victory, then I don't know what is.

"Indeed, some well-known Democrats — including Clinton — said Trump’s 2016 victory was fishy. They mostly cited events that happened during the campaign, such as Russian hacking of campaign information and Comey’s announcement that the FBI was reopening an investigation into Clinton’s emails. They also complained that many states had passed laws that suppressed voter turnout.

But Youngkin’s contention that the Democratic response in 2016 equates with the Republican response to 2020 runs into trouble. The Democrats, while questioning events that occurred during the campaign, didn’t contend there was widespread vote-counting fraud that flipped the election.

The Democratic leaders cited by Youngkin’s office also made a distinction about 2016 that Trump and his followers did not about 2020. While the Democrats rejected the legitimacy of Trump’s presidency based on the oddities of the campaign, they acknowledged that he won the election."

https://www.statesman.com/story/news...s/69548196007/

"While there were some dissident voices that questioned the legitimacy of Trump’s election, top Democrats acknowledged Trump’s win and referred to him as the president-elect less than a day after election results became clear. Those leaders included Clinton, Obama, Democratic leaders in Congress and the DNC."

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...ps-2016-victo/

[Ducbutter]

Really?

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX2Ejqjz6TA

The quoted Statesman article is the classic case of a "distinction" without a difference.

[NiceGuy53]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

"Indeed, some well-known Democrats — including Clinton — said Trump’s 2016 victory was fishy. They mostly cited events that happened during the campaign, such as Russian hacking of campaign information and Comey’s announcement that the FBI was reopening an investigation into Clinton’s emails. They also complained that many states had passed laws that suppressed voter turnout.

But Youngkin’s contention that the Democratic response in 2016 equates with the Republican response to 2020 runs into trouble. The Democrats, while questioning events that occurred during the campaign, didn’t contend there was widespread vote-counting fraud that flipped the election.

The Democratic leaders cited by Youngkin’s office also made a distinction about 2016 that Trump and his followers did not about 2020. While the Democrats rejected the legitimacy of Trump’s presidency based on the oddities of the campaign, they acknowledged that he won the election."

https://www.statesman.com/story/news...s/69548196007/

"While there were some dissident voices that questioned the legitimacy of Trump’s election, top Democrats acknowledged Trump’s win and referred to him as the president-elect less than a day after election results became clear. Those leaders included Clinton, Obama, Democratic leaders in Congress and the DNC."

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...ps-2016-victo/

Is this the best you could come up with? Trying to muddy up the waters with a fact check of a statement made by a Republican politician trying to equate or compare 2016 with 2020. This is not the issue here. You are trying to move the goal posts here.
You made the statement that few on the left denied the legitimacy of the Trump presidency. All of the prominent Democrat politicians that I cited earlier either called Trump an illegitimate president or agreed (absolutely agreed in Biden's case) he was an illegitimate president. Regardless of what they said earlier or any explanation of what they really meant, they said what they said, that Trump was an illegitimate president or that they agreed he was an illegitimate president. What about the poll that was taken 2 months after Trump was sworn in that showed that 57% of Americans aged 18-30 believed that Trump was an illegitimate president. What is your "explanation" for that? Many on the left thought Trump was an illegitimate president.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by NiceGuy53

Is this the best you could come up with? Trying to muddy up the waters with a fact check of a statement made by a Republican politician trying to equate or compare 2016 with 2020. This is not the issue here. You are trying to move the goal posts here.
You made the statement that few on the left denied the legitimacy of the Trump presidency. All of the prominent Democrat politicians that I cited earlier either called Trump an illegitimate president or agreed (absolutely agreed in Biden's case) he was an illegitimate president. Regardless of what they said earlier or any explanation of what they really meant, they said what they said, that Trump was an illegitimate president or that they agreed he was an illegitimate president. What about the poll that was taken 2 months after Trump was sworn in that showed that 57% of Americans aged 18-30 believed that Trump was an illegitimate president. What is your "explanation" for that? Many on the left thought Trump was an illegitimate president.

Some on the left thought Trump was an illegitimate president. I presented the opinions of 2 fact finding institutions which differ from that. The poll you cited is of a limited subset of the voting population and may be very accurate. Here is a poll which states 84% of voters overall and 75% of Hillary Clinton voters believed Trump was the legitimate winner.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/197441/...president.aspx

[Jacuzzme]

I seem to remember a years long investigation, that failed miserably, to try’n prove the Trump was illegitimate.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

I seem to remember a years long investigation, that failed miserably, to try’n prove the Trump was illegitimate.

I don't remember that. Maybe you can cite some article that states that.

[Jacuzzme]

Acceptance is the first step in recovery, my friend.

[NiceGuy53]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Some on the left thought Trump was an illegitimate president. I presented the opinions of 2 fact finding institutions which differ from that. The poll you cited is of a limited subset of the voting population and may be very accurate. Here is a poll which states 84% of voters overall and 75% of Hillary Clinton voters believed Trump was the legitimate winner.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/197441/...president.aspx

The poll you cite was taken a few days after the election. I suspect that if this poll would have been taken several months into Trump's presidency, you would not have had this result. A similar poll that was taken a few days after George W. Bush's election had a similar result. And I believe that if another poll had been taken later on into Bush's presidency, there would have been a different result. There was another poll taken in late May 2017, about 4 months after Trump was sworn in as President, which found that 68% of voters said Democrats have not accepted that Trump won fairly and is a legitimate President. The party breakdown was 69% Republican, 69% Independent and 65% Democrat. So 65% of Democrats thought that their own party had not accepted Trump as a legitimate President about 4 months into Trump's presidency. The timing and wording of a poll can significantly alter its results. Right after an election, there is generally a consensus that the country needs to unite and come together. But this consensus does not always hold. Look what happened after Trump's election. The women's marches and protests, the talk of impeachment before Trump had even taken the oath of office, the Trump colluded with Russia nonsense and the Mueller investigation. And you had prominent Democrat politicians calling Trump an illegitimate President after initially accepting the fact that he was the duly elected President. Are you starting to get the picture here? But it does sound like you have made a little progress here. You are now saying some on the left thought Trump was an illegitimate President instead of a few.

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ate-president/

Returning to the subject of the OP, so I don't invite unwanted intervention by the moderator, what is your prediction for this upcoming election on Tuesday?

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

I don't remember that. Maybe you can cite some article that states that.

It was called the Russian Hoax investigation by Mueller. It's purpose was to prove that Trump colluded with Russia to interfere in the election which ALL Democrats were sure of and that would have made Trump an illegitimate President in their eyes.


This is such a silly argument. Everybody knows what Democrats were saying, they were sure Trump cheated with the help of Russia, ALL of them.


As to the home stretch to November, Democrats including Biden are putting their foot in their mouth with comments like "why are you so concerned about crime" from Hokul to Zelden and Biden's comments on coal that the White House had to walk back AGAIN!


https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...hin-criticism/


White House says Biden’s coal comments have been ‘twisted’ after Manchin criticism



White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre on Saturday said President Biden’s comments on the coal industry had been “twisted” after Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) earlier in the day criticized the remarks.
“The President’s remarks yesterday have been twisted to suggest a meaning that was not intended; he regrets it if anyone hearing these remarks took offense,” Jean-Pierre said in a statement.
Biden said on Friday that wind and solar are cheaper means of generating energy than coal and oil and that “no one is building new coal plants because they can’t rely on it.”
Referring to coal plants, he said, “we’re going to be shutting these plants down all across America and having wind and solar.”


Manchin called the comments “offensive and disgusting,” accusing the president of taking the livelihoods of West Virginians lightly. And possibly Pennsylvanians?

Pennsylvania's Coal Region has a rich heritage of coal mining and is, in fact, home to the largest deposits of anthracite coal in the Americas

. Once a region full of mining towns, the area has since become a tourist destination. The Coal Region has strong blue-collar ties and keeps them to this day.

“Being cavalier about the loss of coal jobs for men and women in West Virginia and across the country who literally put their lives on the line to help build and power this country is offensive and disgusting,” said Manchin.


The senator continued: “Comments like these are the reason the American people are losing trust in President Biden and instead believes he does not understand the need to have an all in energy policy that would keep our nation totally energy independent and secure.”


Jean-Pierre said on Saturday that “President Biden knows that the men and women of coal country built this nation” and emphasized the reduction in unemployment rates in West Virginia, one of the largest coal-producing states in the nation, since Biden took office.


Clean up on aisle 1,2,3,4,5,6!

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

It's purpose was to prove that Trump colluded with Russia to interfere in the election which ALL Democrats were sure of and that would have made Trump an illegitimate President in their eyes.

...

Uh, I don't think investigations are to "prove". They are to look for and present facts discovered.

Others do the decision of the verb you state.

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

It was called the Russian Hoax investigation by Mueller. It's purpose was to prove that Trump colluded with Russia to interfere in the election which ALL Democrats were sure of and that would have made Trump an illegitimate President in their eyes.


This is such a silly argument. Everybody knows what Democrats were saying, they were sure Trump cheated with the help of Russia, ALL of them.

I can’t agree with this. Some of them, potentially, believed it to be true, but, for the most part, everyone in DC knew it was horseshit. Of course they, they being politicians and so-called journalists, got in front of every camera in sight to proclaim how justified the “investigation” was, but that was to make John Q Citizen believe it. Clear thinking people knew it was a crock from day one, and were ultimately proven correct.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

Uh, I don't think investigations are to "prove". They are to look for and present facts discovered.

Others do the decision of the verb you state.

So then "discovered facts" are not proof? Sarcasm alert! Where's 1bm1 when you need him?


One of the most common phrases you will hear a prosecutor say to his or her investigators is, "go out there and find me the proof I need to make a case". But I get it, you had to complain about something but you picked the wrong one to complain about.

[NiceGuy53]

RCP just moved New Hampshire from a Republican pickup back to a Democrat hold. So they are now projecting a Republican pickup of 3 seats in Nevada, Arizona and Georgia in the US Senate.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...rojection.html

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by NiceGuy53

The poll you cite was taken a few days after the election. I suspect that if this poll would have been taken several months into Trump's presidency, you would not have had this result. A similar poll that was taken a few days after George W. Bush's election had a similar result. And I believe that if another poll had been taken later on into Bush's presidency, there would have been a different result. There was another poll taken in late May 2017, about 4 months after Trump was sworn in as President, which found that 68% of voters said Democrats have not accepted that Trump won fairly and is a legitimate President. The party breakdown was 69% Republican, 69% Independent and 65% Democrat. So 65% of Democrats thought that their own party had not accepted Trump as a legitimate President about 4 months into Trump's presidency. The timing and wording of a poll can significantly alter its results. Right after an election, there is generally a consensus that the country needs to unite and come together. But this consensus does not always hold. Look what happened after Trump's election. The women's marches and protests, the talk of impeachment before Trump had even taken the oath of office, the Trump colluded with Russia nonsense and the Mueller investigation. And you had prominent Democrat politicians calling Trump an illegitimate President after initially accepting the fact that he was the duly elected President. Are you starting to get the picture here? But it does sound like you have made a little progress here. You are now saying some on the left thought Trump was an illegitimate President instead of a few.

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ate-president/

Returning to the subject of the OP, so I don't invite unwanted intervention by the moderator, what is your prediction for this upcoming election on Tuesday?

I have alreday made my prediction. Republicans regain control of the House but their gains will not match gains made in 2010. Currently the House is 222-213 Democrat. I see Republicans picking up about 25 seats.

The Senate is really difficult to predict. Republicans are a slight favorite to take control. 538 has Republicans possibly at 54 seats and Democrats possibly at 52 seats. The consensus view of 270towin which summarizes the opinions of severel predictors has it 49-49 with Nevada and Georgia too close to call. I may be overly optimistic but I see the Senate still being 50-50 after the election.

https://www.270towin.com/2022-senate-election/