US HIMARS Start Pounding Russians In Donbas

[dilbert firestorm]

good to know that ukr got their latest war toy.

50 miles, thats a pretty good range.

the Rus should now realize they now have a big fat (+) on their backs.

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by lustylad

[B]New U.S. Guided Rockets Strengthen Ukraine’s Hand Against Russia[/SIZE]

Straight up propaganda. Do you not even realize you're being lied to?

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by texassapper

Straight up propaganda. Do you not even realize you're being lied to?

Haha... do you? You probably think the Moskva is still cruising in the Black Sea and the Rooskis are still on Snake Island and at the outskirts of Kyev!

The WSJ story is from their reporting pages, not the opinion section. If they were trying to spread "propaganda" they would not have admitted we've only sent 4 HIMARS systems, with another 4 slated to arrive next week. That's not nearly enough, but we can only supply them as fast as Ukraine has troops who are trained in how to use them. The fucking Russians are still firing 10-20 times as many artillery rounds as Ukraine is firing back at them.

[matchingmole]

Originally Posted by texassapper

LOL.. our superior technology? You have actually heard of Vietnam right?

Technology doesn't mean shit without political will.

As for Ukraine manufacturing its own ordnance... good luck with that. Weapons plants aren't spun up over night...particularly when they are subject to getting attacked.

Vietnam? The home team eventually wins....Russia will win this just like they won in Afghanistan

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Haha... do you?

Of course I do. That's why just because I can still read RT I don't trust it anymore than any other source unless I can get some third party confirmation. Which while not easy...can actually be done on Telegram and Twatter. Usually the truth is somewhere between all the Propaganda. I also have some professional acumen to apply to the situation... So I know what is being pushed is utter horse puckey. It's not even believable propaganda... LOL. Government employees LOL.

Originally Posted by lustylad

You probably think the Moskva is still cruising in the Black Sea and the Rooskis are still on Snake Island and at the outskirts of Kyev!

And yet you seem to think that Ukraine has any hope in winning this and that NATO is just a big social club.

Originally Posted by lustylad

but we can only supply them as fast as Ukraine has troops who are trained in how to use them.

Well there you go. You understand why long term, the Ukrainians are not going to get their territoy back... they fucked around with NATO and found out that the Russians are not amenable to having NATO sitting on their doorstep.

Originally Posted by lustylad

The fucking Russians are still firing 10-20 times as many artillery rounds as Ukraine is firing back at them.

Again.. you keep dancing around the part where the UKR is screwed. You can see the evidence of why but not get to the conclusion. This isn't 1940, and the UKR is not the RAF. The strategic situation is different and fanning the conflict is only going to end up hurting US interests in the long run. But you keep up the Rah rah college shit.... see where it gets you.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by texassapper

Of course I do... I know what is being pushed is utter horse puckey. It's not even believable propaganda... LOL.

Yet you can't/won't tell us specifically what in the factual WSJ article I shared in post #15 is "propaganda".

And yet you seem to think that Ukraine has any hope in winning this and that NATO is just a big social club.

You're trapped in outmoded thinking. It's foolish to speak of anyone winning. This is a lose-lose war. A futile war of attrition. Ukraine is already a loser, no matter how much territory it recovers. 12 million people displaced or refugees, cities like Mariupol reduced to rubble, grain and sunflower oil rotting in the port of Odessa. The goal now is to make Russia an even bigger loser.

You seem to be hoping for some kind of Pyrrhic "victory" for Russia. Putin may try to declare victory at some point, but the bleeding will persist as long as we refuse to let him impose his terms on Ukraine. He has foolishly stoked Ukrainian nationalism. At this point Ukraine will never accept subjugation or Russian satellite status. And where did I call NATO a "big social club"?


Well there you go. You understand why long term, the Ukrainians are not going to get their territory back... they fucked around with NATO and found out that the Russians are not amenable to having NATO sitting on their doorstep.

Really? Ever look at a map? Three Baltic countries and Poland already share borders with Russian territory. Finland's pending accession will more than double Russia's border with NATO. If Putin wanted to halt NATO's eastward expansion, he picked a stupidly misguided way to do it. It has backfired badly for him. And I was actually sympathetic to Russia's security concerns... until Feb. 24. Putin has managed to turn your NATO "social club" into a fast-arming, forward-deployed, strongly unified alliance. Congratulations, Vlad!


Again... you keep dancing around the part where the UKR is screwed. You can see the evidence of why but not get to the conclusion. This isn't 1940, and the UKR is not the RAF. The strategic situation is different and fanning the conflict is only going to end up hurting US interests in the long run. But you keep up the Rah rah college shit.... see where it gets you.

Cut the crap. War is serious, so stop your flippant pep rally talk. I'm not trying to draw parallels to WW2 but it's obvious to everyone except you that US interests lie in stopping Putin. As the Economist put it:

"The more Mr. Putin believes he has succeeded in Ukraine, the more belligerent he will become. He set out his ambitions in a speech this month, smirking as he talked about how Peter the Great seized parts of Sweden. He will fight tomorrow with whatever weapons work for him today. That means resorting to war crimes and nuclear threats, starving the world and freezing Europe."

If you want to be a Putin apologist and a Ukraine surrender monkey, go visit Kyev and sing that tune. Then come back here and tell us how it was received.

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Cut the crap. War is serious, so stop your flippant pep rally talk.

How many people do you PERSONALLY KNOW that are dead from combat? I can count eight of my classmates including one that there is now a push on for the Medal of Honor. In addition to those eight another 3 dies while in the service due to taining accidents... one in Ranger School, one had a Bradley roll on him and one had a training grenade go off premature and kill him. Not just War is serious, so is simply being in the military. I'm not the one with the college rah rah shit, son. That's you.

Originally Posted by lustylad

I'm not trying to draw parallels to WW2 but it's obvious to everyone except you that US interests lie in stopping Putin.

Really EVERYONE? Or just the media that you're consuming is telling you that? Pull your head out of your fourth point of contact. A simple map check tells you that Ukraine is not relevant to US interests. A (now) land locked nation whose value lay in it's ability to facilitate Democrat graft. Yeah, thanks I'll pass...

Originally Posted by lustylad

As the Economist put it:
"The more Mr. Putin believes he has succeeded in Ukraine, the more belligerent he will become. He set out his ambitions in a speech this month, smirking as he talked about how Peter the Great seized parts of Sweden. He will fight tomorrow with whatever weapons work for him today. That means resorting to war crimes and nuclear threats, starving the world and freezing Europe."

Really when was the last time the Economist was accurate in their assessment of national intent? You're quoting the Economist FFS... about military and territorial ambitions!! Do you not see the issue? Putin "smirked"? OMG stop the presses and send Ukraine some ammo! This is what you base your "judgement" on? LOL.

Originally Posted by lustylad

If you want to be a Putin apologist and a Ukraine surrender monkey, go visit Kyev and sing that tune. Then come back here and tell us how it was received.

I'm not an apologist. I'm simply stating that Putin INVADED Ukraine precisely because WE kept talking about getting them into NATO. WHY? To prevent an invasion? That's precisely what precipitated the invasion. Any truthful person in the State dept. could tell you this would be the result of talking up NATO. And WHY? WHY did we renege on our promises NOT to expand NATO?

I DGAF how Ukrainians would react... any more than Ukrainians give a shit about the US border with Mexico. WHy is the territorial integrity of Ukraine more important to you than that of the US? How many more Billions should US tax payers send to Ukraine? For WHAT? The good Feelz? Please

[matchingmole]

We should sent Ukraine many billions....they are fighting a proxy war for us.....and doing a damn fine job also....