Biden Voters: Ukraine Blood Is On Your Hands

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Good article out last week on how Volodymyr Zelensky set Ukraine up for the obvious face-plant they are currently experiencing. Good read to understand how he did it.

The Man Who Sold Ukraine

Volodymyr Zelensky is the current President of Ukraine. He was elected in a landslide victory in 2019 on the promise of easing tensions with Russia and resolving the crisis in the breakaway republics in east Ukraine. He has made no attempt to keep his word on either issue. Instead, he has greatly exacerbated Ukraine’s internal crisis while relentlessly provoking Russia. Zelensky has had numerous opportunities to smooth things over​ with Moscow and prevent the outbreak of hostilities. Instead, he has consistently made matters worse by blindly following Washington’s directives.

Zelensky has been lionized in the west and praised for his personal bravery. But—as a practical matter—he has failed to restore national unity or implement the crucial peace accord that is the only path to reconciliation. The Ukrainian president doesn’t like the so-called Minsk Protocol and has refused to meet its basic requirements. As a result, the ethnically-charged, fratricidal war that has engulfed Ukraine for the last 8 years, continues to this day with no end in sight. President Vladimir Putin referred to Zelensky’s obstinance in a recent speech delivered at the Kremlin. He said:

“At yesterday’s event… the Ukrainian leadership publicly declared that they were not going to abide by these agreements. Not going to abide by them. Well, what else can you say about that?” (Vladimir Putin)

Most Americans fail to realize that Zelensky’s rejection of Minsk was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Russian officials had worked for 8 years on Minsk hammering out terms that would be agreeable to all parties. Then—at the eleventh hour—Zelensky put the kibosh on the deal with a wave of the hand. Why? Who told Zelensky to scrap the agreement? Washington?

Of course.

And why did Zelensky deploy 60,000 combat troops to the area just beyond the Line of Contact (in east Ukraine) where they could lob mortal shells into the towns and villages of the ethnic Russians who lived there? Clearly, the message this sent to the people was that an invasion was imminent and that they should either flee their homes immediately or take shelter in their cellars. What objective did Zelensky hope to achieve by forcing these people to huddle in their homes in fear for their lives? And what message did he intend to send to Moscow whose leaders looked on at these developments in absolute horror?

Did he know his actions would set off alarms in Russia forcing Putin to call up his military and prepare them for a possible invasion to protect his people from– what looked to be– a massive ethnic cleansing operation?

He did

So, how are these actions consistent with Zelensky’s campaign promises to restore national unity and peacefully resolve Ukraine’s issues with Russia?

They’re not consistent at all, they are polar opposites. In fact, Zelenskyy appears to be operating off a different script altogether. Take, for example, his complete unwillingness to address Russia’s minimal security concerns. Did Zelensky know that Putin had repeatedly said that Ukraine’s membership in NATO was a “red line” for Russia? Did he know that Putin has been saying the same thing over-and-over again since 2014? Did he know that Putin warned that if Ukraine took steps to join NATO, Russia would be forced to take “military-technical” measures to ensure their own security? Does Zelensky know that NATO is Washington-controlled Alliance that has engaged in numerous acts of aggression against other sovereign states. Here’s a short list of NATO’s accomplishments:

The destruction of Yugoslavia
The destruction of Afghanistan
The destruction of Libya
The destruction of Iraq
The destruction of Syria

Does Zelensky know that NATO is openly hostile to Russia and regards Russia a serious threat to its expansionist ambitions?

Yes, he knows all these things. Still, he publicly expressed his interest in developing nuclear weapons. What is that all about? Imagine the problem that would pose for Russia. Imagine if a US-backed puppet, like Zelensky, had nuclear missiles at his fingertips. How do you think that might impact Russia’s security? Do you think Putin could ignore a development like that and still fulfill his duty to protect the Russian people?...

[Yssup Rider]

No wonder you didn’t reveal the source of this essay…

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

No wonder you didn’t reveal the source of this essay…

You mean as in the provide link?

[ICU 812]

YSSUPRIDER:

Idiots? Thank you for that characterization.

I would note that while I have criticized the judgement of those now in power and those who put them there, I did not resort to play-ground level name calling.

What matters are actions; what people do and what they do not do. Pr4esident Biden has not done many things and so here we arte today. General war in Europe is pending.

As President Reaghan famously said, "Are you better off n ow than you were before?" In my opinion we are not. Not any of us here in the USA, not anyone in Europe and certainly not anyone in Ukraine.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

If Ukraine had joined NATO, there would be a no fly zone over the Ukraine and boots on the ground from NATO countries helping them out right now. Article 5 would automatically trigger. They would be getting protection, without any discussion or debate.

Trumps get it done management style did three things.

1. Take the Federal Government Budget deficit from 585 billion back to 1 Trillion after he got his corporate tax cut implemented.

2. Did the SAME 2% GDP growth numbers that Obama was doing. He promised 4,5, even 6% and only sniffed 3% one time. The data is the data.

3. Mismanaged a pandemic so bad that 400,000 American citizens died due to his incompetence. "Like a miracle it (CoVid) would just go away".

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

This has nothing to do with Trump. You're deranged and need help. This all started when the corrupt Joe and Hunter team moved into the White House and one of the first things that Joe did was to clear Nordstream II for construction putting money into the pocket of Putin. Pull your head out of your ass before a Russian tank runs you over.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Unlike some here, I was able to fact check that article. The writer who wrote it has some serious problems with reality and truth. Click on the link and then click on the writer's name. See what else he has written. Talk about a Putin puppet. That's what one looks like.

[DesWad]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

^^^

Besides all that: I still don't hear any Biden/Obama voters tsking ownership of this unfolding tragedy.

Back in the 1970s, President Carter's weakness in responding to the Iranian takeover of our embassy in Teran encouraged the Russians/Soviets to take over Afghanistan. While that didn't work out for them, it was Carter's passivity that let them think we would do nothing in response. Representative Charly Wilson alone carried alone pushed our side to give any help for the Afghans. Turned out, Stinger misses did the trick in large part.

Russian fears that President Trump would react strongly kept them out of Ukraine during the years between Obama and Biden.

Russian fears of President Reagan kept the Soviets at bay in the 1980s and set up the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union under President Ford.


Every president gets something wrong during their time as chief executive. The communist takeover of China in 1949 was one and the Korean war in the early 1950s is another example. President Eisenhower didn't support the resistance to Castro. Then, JFK had the failed invasion of Cuba, which lead to the Cuban Missile Crises in the 1960s. And we are still dealing with those failures today. Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon failed to adequately deal with the Viet Nam War.

Obama failed to support the independence of Ukraine and let the Russians take over Georgia. Biden has failed us in Afghanistan and now again in Ukraine.

What follows from the current shit-storm in Ukraine will be with us for most of the rest of the 2st Century.

And if you voted for Obama and/or Biden . . .its your bag of shit to carry around.

well said and very fair to both sides here.

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

President Obama and President Biden have both allowed Putin to expand Russia into first Crimea and now the rest of Ukraine, despite the USA being signatory to an agreement insuring Ukrainian sovereignty and i=independence vs Russia.

ICU 812, you don't tell the complete story. Russia and the USA signed the same agreement that you referred to above. Mad man Putin broke the agreement by invading Ukraine again. This is not on Biden / Obama. What do you want Biden to do? Send our troops over there because Putin breaks agreements. Again, if the Ukraine had joined NATO the president of the Ukraine would not have to ask for military assistance from NATO member countries. Article V triggers automatically when a member country is attacked. They would be getting all the military assistance they would need without asking for it. Try telling the whole story next time not just part of it.

So far, the Ukraine army has kept the Russian Army from taking over any large city. Their ambushes have been successful and caused over 4,000 casualties to the Russian Army in two weeks.

From the link:

Moreover, in 1994, the leaders of the United States, Britain and Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, in which they committed to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity and pledged not to use force against that country. That memorandum was key to Kyiv’s decision to give up nearly two thousand strategic nuclear warheads and the associated strategic missiles and bombers. This was a major victory for U.S. policy, and for nonproliferation.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...e-and-ukraine/

[ICU 812]

Yes. Russia and USA both are parties to that agreement. Both agreed to ensure the sovereignty of Ukraine. Russia did not honor the agreement by taking over Crimea and some bits of Eastern Ukraine in 014. The President Obama did not honor the agreement then by letting Russia do it . . .in 2014.

And now Putin is going for the whole country . . .and President Biden is letting him do it. All the so-called sanctions are after the fact, ineffectual or slow to be felt by Russia.

If the fighting were to stop today, nothing done by President Biden, or the ladders of the European nations (EU or NATO) will make Putin give up what he currently has control of. He will push to subjugate the whole of Ukraine. Next will be Moldova.

For a historical model for this, read up on the history of WW-II with respect to Austria, Alcalce-0Loraine and the Rhineland portion of Checeslovacia. . . .and then Poland.

If you were an Obama voter;m if you werre a Biden voter . . .then you have a degree of culpability for the tragedy that is Ukraine today.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

YSSUPRIDER:

Idiots? Thank you for that characterization.

I would note that while I have criticized the judgement of those now in power and those who put them there, I did not resort to play-ground level name calling.

What matters are actions; what people do and what they do not do. Pr4esident Biden has not done many things and so here we arte today. General war in Europe is pending.

As President Reaghan famously said, "Are you better off n ow than you were before?" In my opinion we are not. Not any of us here in the USA, not anyone in Europe and certainly not anyone in Ukraine.

Where did I say that, bud?

President “Reaghan “ famously suffered from Alzheimer’s.

Yet you fellas worship him to this day. How can bitch and moan and piss and whine about Biden when you’re too thick to realize what you’re posting and about whom.

I suggest you get your facts straight. And then read this forum before you go accusing others of the very thing you and your fellow Trump cultists say every day,

Hee Hee…

[Salty Again]

... Blimey! ... Looking in the mirror is hard for you. Aint it, mate?

... But no worrys - When Trump WINS again - He will fix everything.

#### Salty

[Precious_b]

Opinion time.
*I* think that foreign policy was better handled under Republican presidents than Democratic ones. Mainly base this on those in my life time. Nixon opening the doors with China and Reagan with Russia. They had their faults but Kissinger did wonders for us. Sorry, can't remember Reagans Sec of State. Not implying that he didn't do a good job. And I ain't shorting Ike either.

But if I was to give credit to the previous potus, than he'd have ramped up everything that Ukraine needed in his 4 year term. Quite the opposite happened. With a year under bidens belt, we'll see what happens with the rest.

That blood is shared by more than just 1 year here, 4 years previous, 8 years before, back to the time they got their freedom.

Should have got them into NATO. At least this shit would have been settled already.

[WTF]

Long term foriegn policy matters are impossible to not look back in time and with context.

Was Carter to blame for Iran?

Was Reagan responsible for 9/11 by arming the Taliban....even though Carter started that program. Was Bush responsible for the rise of Russia by piling up all that debt in both Afghanistan and Iraq?

I could go on and on....but in relation to the present situation....what no one could say is that the anti Trump....John McCain was wrong. Although Trump and his supporters did and probably still do.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by WTF

Was Reagan responsible for 9/11 by arming the Taliban....even though Carter started that program. Was Bush responsible for the rise of Russia by piling up all that debt in both Afghanistan and Iraq?

I could go on and on....

Please don't. Your nutty questions are ignorant beyond belief.

Spare us your musings and spare yourself further embarrassment!

[WTF]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Please don't. Your nutty questions are ignorant beyond belief.

Spare us your musings and spare yourself further embarrassment!

Isn't there a gloryhole you should be manning?

Just checked again....still no blood on my hands.