Let's discuss Healthcare a bit

[reddog1951]

"if Biden is elected they will be outlawed."

Kindly prove that statement as factual and not opinion.

[oeb11]

HF - kalifornia already gives illegals free medical care. They value illegals more than the tax-paying citizens they control and despise.

Biden / harris regime - open border, free stuff including teh vote for all who wish to come here with no limitations - including free medical care for all - just enticements for the future DPST voters from south America to keep the DPST Socialist /Stalinists in power!

[winn dixie]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

I'll start by saying I know nothing about the health care industry. Having said that, I agree with you that we START with the idea that employers are not responsible for your health care and build from that simple premise. How we do that I am not sure but as I understand it, employers or lets just say "groups" get discounts. Instead of employers or union's getting these "discounts, let's just say every American citizen is now in a union or group or any word you want to choose. We all get the same break. I'm talking about working people making a living.



We will always need some kind of safety net for those that just can't cut it in life for one reason or another.


Another thing must be made abundantly clear. If you are not an American citizen in this country legally, you will not get free anything. If you have to go to a hospital, sure, we'll fix you up and then put you on a plane back to your home country, period.


If you are a citizen and have to go to the emergency room because you do not have insurance even though you can probably afford a basic plan and you refuse to pay your hospital bill which will absolutely have to be fixed at rates substantially lower than they are now, someone from the government will "access" whether you can pay anything towards your bill. No more freeloading off the tax-payers.


I'll have to leave these basic ideas to those a lot smarter than me but basically.


Everybody pays for their own insurance unless you can't and you damn well better be able to prove you can't and why.


Nobody gets a better deal than any other American, period.


If you are in this country illegally and you need to go to a hospital, we'll be generous and take care of you and then you will be deported.


We should have a flexible, workable guest worker program in this country and these guest workers wages and working conditions will have to meet the same standards given to American workers.


Now some of you smart fuckers figure out how to make all that work.

Agree 100 percent!
Line by line AGREE

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

"if Biden is elected they will be outlawed."

Kindly prove that statement as factual and not opinion.

The default DPST argument when they have nothing to offer

Bernie and many DPST candidates espouse Medicare for All One payor system and all other payors will be outlawed - and how many jobs does that destroy???
Pay attention to your own party platforms@

[reddog1951]

Now we're getting somewhere other than oeb, which rarely contributes anything novel. Believe it or not Winn, I agree with most of what you said, especially that insurance should not be dependent on where you work. Each individual should be able to choose among a myriad of plans; sorry, but inthe internet, credit card, age group plans do not offer any great cost savings to insurance companies.

My company has historically offered Medicare rates to the uninsured and negotiate down from there. You would not believe some of the bills if not in the industry, and not supportable by cost of service.

Regarding your last statement about smart fuckers, Mr. Trump has had 4 yrs to figure it out, and should have had it figured out before running.

There is no plan,sadly. There should be and should have been on day one. What there is, is knee jerk reaction, not a plan

[DesWad]

OMG! Can you assume more? The small business owners I know have not had health insurance since little Bush. Reason? costs way too damn much now. Risk reward just isn't there.

[HedonistForever]

It just never sat well with me even though I was glad as hell I had it. My union negotiated for my health care benefits. Why should I get a better deal because I work for a big company with a big union? Why can't every American be in one union, the American union and all get the same rates at the same cost and go from there?


And every citizen is entitled to some kind of coverage based on your ability to pay. Medicare for all/ universal healthcare paid for by the government will absolutely bankrupt this country especially if illegals are involved, that just guarantee's a ton of more illegals. I don't care how other smaller countries manage to pull it off with higher taxes and months of waiting to see a specialist. It won't work here, period.


I don't like the idea of leaving the employers paying and a "public option" where you can chose to stay with your employer or go on the public option because what employer will want to continue doing that when the government has said "Hey, we'll do it"? Good, then you do it and we're going to stop.


And yes, we are long passed the point of Republicans saying they don't want the ACA without putting a plan in writing going forward. If you can't do that, you must accept what your opposition puts out because you have nothing better to offer. Shit or get off the pot.

[DesWad]

idiots. so stupid.

[sportfisherman]

GG is right.

The Health Insurance industry needs to be dismantled.

All healthcare dollar expenditures need to go for providing Care.

We cannot continue to subsidize the private insurance business.

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

It seems that many posters on this board are wealthy enough to worry about increases in their federal income tax rate should Mr. Biden be elected, so I assume some are small to medium business owners, or independent contractors with in demand skills (or maybe trust fund babies). One of the bigger overhead expenses, especially for smaller businesses, is providing reasonable health insurance to their employees; sole proprietors and independent contractors probably have even bigger problems in this regard.

So assuming Mr. Trump is reelected and the ACA is ditched, what exactly is his plan to alleviate the problems faced by this group and their employees? Please cite specific platform or quoted goals with mechanisms to achieve and how this is a financial or cost/benefit improvement.

Trump is going to lose. He doesn't have a plan anyway. That was proven with the large book that he gave to Lelsie Stahl of 60 minutes. It did not contain a health insurance plan.

Biden is going to win. He has large leads in several battleground states that will not be made up.

Under Biden Group health insurance from the employer stays. The ACA it its current form stays. The individual mandate is gone and the ACA is still here. Republican's said it would fall under it's own weight years ago. That didn't happen. The registration period for 2021 starts soon. The tax credits to help pay premium can't be removed by executive order. The ACA does not cost anymore than Bush43's Medicare Part D, which helps seniors pay for prescriptions they can't afford.

Companies offer health insurance to their employees as part of the pay package to attract talent. That is not going away unless a single payer system is implemented (like Canada and GB).

Companies that have less than 50 employees do not have to provide health insurance to their employees. They will not be fined if they don't.

Under our current system 92% of all citizens under age 65 in the USA has some type of health insurance. Group Health Insurance from the employer, Obama Care (private plan, expanded medicaid) and Original Medicaid (signed into law by LBJ in 1965).

Trump has been talking about a new health insurance plan for almost 4 years and still does not have one.

[reddog1951]

I basically agree with you fisherman, but I don't forsee the political climate going to a single payor system soon, whoever wins. First step to overhaul might be to force insurance companies to offer their coverage to any willing individual subscriber at the same published rate for all (not arguing against adjustments for local CPI, etc) AND to pay any health provider meeting standardized qualifications willing to provide service at published reimbursement rates in simplistic terms. That would eliminate the current cherry picking faced by employers and force competition between the insurance companies...the American Way. The insurance companies love group plans, so they can raise rates to a particular group due to "exposure risk", then never lower; the "exposure risk" should be the national (or at least large regional) pool actuarially. It would require some regulatory changes regarding interstate insurance business though.

[oeb11]

DPST's - you are so far off base of the DPST party plans it is hilarious - if it was not so sad

You are so deluded.

Bernie /AOC - if they get the Senate - are on record to institute Medicare for All One payor system - and no more private insurance - except for the DPST nomenklatura of Congress. It means No care for nobody - because the money will be diverted to the soylent Green new Deal and other socialist wet dreams, and biden's crime family pockets - not to mention chairman Xi and Putin payments - and there will be no medical care in America for anyone not Nomenklatura!

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by oeb11

DPST's - you are so far off base of the DPST party plans it is hilarious - if it was not so sad

You are so deluded.

Bernie /AOC - if they get the Senate - are on record to institute Medicare for All One payor system - and no more private insurance - except for the DPST nomenklatura of Congress. It means No care for nobody - because the money will be diverted to the soylent Green new Deal and other socialist wet dreams, and biden's crime family pockets - not to mention chairman Xi and Putin payments - and there will be no medical care in America for anyone not Nomenklatura!

Anybody notice how this song NEVER changes, but just gets louder and longer every day?

Figured by now, he'd have blown a speaker.



The fact of the matter is that the health insurance industry, pharmaceuticals and for-profit hospitals have fucked this country up to the point that our quality of care is in the shitter. We lead the world in research, education, technology, ad infinitum, but can't take care of our people.

Maybe some of you bright fellas can figure out why this great nation can't take care of its people.

Trump sure as fuck can't and obviously doesn't give a frog's fat ass.

[winn dixie]

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

The insurance companies love group plans, so they can raise rates to a particular group due to "exposure risk", then never lower; the "exposure risk" should be the national (or at least large regional) pool actuarially. It would require some regulatory changes regarding interstate insurance business though.

All premium rate increases have to be approved by the commissioner of insurance in each state. The health insurance company just can't increase the premium for a policy on their own.

Health insurance companies like group plans because generally the risk pool of the insured has the lowest amount of risk. You sign of a company with 10,000 employees most will be healthy and never submit a claim for a benifit.