Covid and now all the cities are burning down from riots

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

Sapper-- I wasn't implying assassination in the slightest.

I know... just pointing out that I'm surprised Trump has been allowed to live this long.

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

I recall 8 years of people swearing up and down that Obama was coming for their guns.

Hello? "Operation Fast and Furious"? The ATF got caught trying to smuggle US weapons into Mexico, create violence, blame the US gun laws then enact changes. But the MF got caught. Too bad for the most ethical administration EVAH! I wouldn't blame republicansfor politicizing guns...Democrats REPEATEDLY declare that they are going to confiscate those evil inanimate objects! How do you expect gun owners to react?

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

Most Republicans were pro-choice until they realized the power of the Evangelical vote (seriously-- look up Reagan's history in this regard).

So you're accusing Republicans of politicizing infanticide? I mean who's for partial birth abortion again? As for the Gipper - “If there is a question as to whether there is life or death, the doubt should be resolved in favor of life,” Dutch - E.Morris. Reagan was against abortion but didn't want them to suffer with the consequences of their choices either... so he was OK with killing unborn children initially. But people can evolve their beliefs. When I was an 18 year old, I thought abortion was OK too. Thirty years later, I've never personally met anyone that was better (physically & Mentally) off because of had an abortion.

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

Yeah-- the left is a lot louder with it right now (and that's part of why I will call myself a classical Democrat-- but not a liberal).. but the Republicans have their own issues of complicity.

The left is acting like Nazis. Seriously... street thugs, cancel culture, boycotts, public shaming. Mao, Stalin, Hitler... would approve knowingly at the Lefts tactics. I seem to recall a Bernie bro trying to kill a lot of Republicans at a baseball game... does that ring a bell for you? When was the last time a Leftie was shamed off a campus? I mean it had to have been like 1954 right?

Welcome to the terrible Twenties. And if this isn't all enough to make you happy... go check out whats happening with the Chinese three gorges dam. That thing goes and China will become a basket case.... hah.

AND for those of you who think Trump is barely going to make it.. I suggest you read the following:

What if it's all a Lie?

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

It is not the responsibility of Twitter to ensure an accurate narrative-- it is the responsibility of the voters to research....
I don't believe in censoring a candidate-- but I'm fully in support of vetting and fact checking statements made.

Which is it? Does the company get to decide what to allow to be published or is it the responsibility of the voter? The tech companies are cowering under the concept that they are not publishers they are a platform. Thus they are not responsible for when people claim the earth is flat. But now that they've decided that Trump must be "corrected" They are no longer a platform... they are a publisher. He's goading all of them, Twatter, Facebitch, Goggles, into routinely violating that definition. And then in the 2nd term, he's going to take them to court. If you're going to censor conservative thought (you can call them white supremicists if it makes you feel better), then you better censor EVERYTHING objectionable... and if you don't then you've have demonstrated your bias.

See that's how I know Trump isn't stupid. He's probably the smartest politician around today because of his experiences with reality TV and business. He understands letting the enemy is digging a hole, you don't interrupt them.

[Wile E Coyote]

Don't worry about Grace, texassapper, the facts that she says are facts are only facts if they agree with her opinion, and if there is a fact that does not agree with it, she will say those facts are wrong.

No need to argue politics on a whore board, just vote and after the election, that is the true pulse of the nation. If someone disagrees with your political opinion or view, you are not going change it, just like he is not going to change yours.

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote

If someone disagrees with your political opinion or view, you are not going change it, just like he is not going to change yours.

lol. you don't understand...

[Aoi]

Yeah, people should really watch the Rogan, Pool and Dorsey podcast.


Pool NAILS Dorsey for his hypocrisy. It's magnificent.

[Wile E Coyote]

Well, I kinda take that back, there are lots of idiots on this board incapable of independent thought, so telling you opinion as fact would sway lots of people to your side.

[Grace Preston]

Originally Posted by Aoi

Yeah, people should really watch the Rogan, Pool and Dorsey podcast.


Pool NAILS Dorsey for his hypocrisy. It's magnificent.

I do enjoy watching Rogan. I also like Scott Adams. I don't believe in living in an echo chamber-- you miss a lot of important shit when you totally ignore either side of the fence. It also helps that I don't agree with a lot of the more hard left viewpoints that have become so popular.

[Grace Preston]

Originally Posted by texassapper

Which is it? Does the company get to decide what to allow to be published or is it the responsibility of the voter? The tech companies are cowering under the concept that they are not publishers they are a platform. Thus they are not responsible for when people claim the earth is flat. But now that they've decided that Trump must be "corrected" They are no longer a platform... they are a publisher. He's goading all of them, Twatter, Facebitch, Goggles, into routinely violating that definition. And then in the 2nd term, he's going to take them to court. If you're going to censor conservative thought (you can call them white supremicists if it makes you feel better), then you better censor EVERYTHING objectionable... and if you don't then you've have demonstrated your bias.

See that's how I know Trump isn't stupid. He's probably the smartest politician around today because of his experiences with reality TV and business. He understands letting the enemy is digging a hole, you don't interrupt them.

Fair enough. I'd probably support Twitter on this one a little more if they were a bit more consistent with the application of their rules. Same with Facebook.


It takes a LOT for me to consider a Conservative a "white supremacist". Most conservatives I know are at least socially liberal to a certain degree (don't believe in regulating marriage-- live and let live-- etc). The only thing that makes me roll my eyes are people so gung-ho about Trump (or... any other candidate, really) who refuse to acknowledge the bad along with the good. That's killing politics on both sides of the fence.

[Grace Preston]

Originally Posted by Aoi

You're right. Laissez faire means the government doesn't get to interfere with business. So why does the left get to do it and the right doesn't? That baker effectively had his business ruined because two idiots came in looking for trouble. My point is that if one side gets to do it, then why can't the other? Especially when Twitter champions themselves as "free speech" supporters?



I don't feel its right. However-- it is important to note that part of what got the bakery in the most trouble was releasing the couples private information publicly. I don't know if it would have gone as far as it did if not for that. It may have, anyhow... I don't know. But-- I am a firm believer that if someone doesn't want my business-- I'll give my money to someone else.




You're right. And a lot people tend to get their information from social media, including twitter. And if twitter is censoring a certain candidate, that's effectively fraud, on a mass level.


And this is where personal responsibility comes into play. Its pretty fuckhappystupid to believe something just because Jimmy said so on social media.





I haven't heard of this, but I do know that Zuckerburg has been getting more flack because he is speaking out against censoring, so good for him for the time being.. I guess.


The problem is... he's not really speaking out against censoring-- just against censoring some people.

And yet, one side does it more.


Prepare to be surprised.....


I agree.




I mean, it's Tulsa. Nothing to do there. And people have been so couped I'm sure they were looking for an excuse to go out. Not that this is the point. The point is, things can happen during logistics. Also, Houston is massively blue, so they probably wouldn't want to go in the first place.

Tulsa is fairly red-- but I'm saying, they should have looked at historical numbers and known that something wasn't quite right. But... Trump does like to brag about YUGE numbers.


Elaborate. Because AOC is routinely pushing the most lefty policies, calling everything racist, refusing to actually do anything worthwhile. I haven't seen Trump do anything that's that far off on the opposite end of the spectrum. Trump is actually pretty middle of the road in a lot of things, whereas, someone completely on the right would never talk about government intervention and whatnot, whereas, Trump feels it is called for at certain times.


Should have clarified... they're both like each other in the sense that they will yell and scream into the void-- even when what they're saying is wrong or doesn't make sense. Trump is fairly middle of the road-- he was a lifelong Democrat who saw that he had a better opportunity to run as a Republican. The amazing thing is that he managed to convince Evangelicals that a thrice married man with a long history of philandering and pretty much no history of going to church--- that he was the perfect candidate for the "Party of Family Values" to back. He really is one hell of a negotiator. The only thing that keeps me from just despising the man is that often times his rhetoric is far more right than his actual action.







It's not up to twitter, Facebook, or any other social media outlet to "fact check" a political candidate. It's up to the media to provide these on their own outlet. And also, speaking of fact checking, the media also needs to be fact checked, even more than a politician.



Examples?


Mainly in his posturing and grandstanding. "Draining the Swamp", "Bad Hombres", etc. I'd dig deeper on this one-- and I may later on-- but I've got dinner plans with one of my adult kiddos tonight and I need to get out the door.

....

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

The only thing that makes me roll my eyes are people who refuse to acknowledge the bad along with the good.

Such as?

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

I do enjoy watching Rogan. I also like Scott Adams. I don't believe in living in an echo chamber-- you miss a lot of important shit when you totally ignore either side of the fence. It also helps that I don't agree with a lot of the more hard left viewpoints that have become so popular.

I don't agree with Rogan on a lot of things, such as on pot, climate change, gun control and religion. And even he agrees that Twitter is full of shit.

He's not wrong. Twitter sucks. If you are trying to deny or somehow excuse this by making it about what-about-isms, you're being intellectually dishonest.

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

....

I don't feel its right. However-- it is important to note that part of what got the bakery in the most trouble was releasing the couples private information publicly. I don't know if it would have gone as far as it did if not for that. It may have, anyhow... I don't know. But-- I am a firm believer that if someone doesn't want my business-- I'll give my money to someone else.

The couple had their business shot down because of "discrimination" laws. What does releasing private information have anything to do with that?

And this is where personal responsibility comes into play. Its pretty fuckhappystupid to believe something just because Jimmy said so on social media.

I mean, most of your talking points are talking points from the lowest common denominator, so.... does that excuse Twitter for censoring something and not another?

The problem is... he's not really speaking out against censoring-- just against censoring some people.

Citations. Because Facebook isn't known for being fair to conservatives.

Prepare to be surprised.....

Youtube has banned the likes of Stefan Molyneux, a philosopher who consistently advocates for free speech and non-violence. Among others.

Twitter has banned people for saying women and men are not the same.

Facebook routinely throws people in jail for -x- reasons and doesn't apply that at all towards the left.

Give me some examples of how the right systematically oppresses a leftist's speech to the point where they are banned.

Tulsa is fairly red-- but I'm saying, they should have looked at historical numbers and known that something wasn't quite right. But... Trump does like to brag about YUGE numbers.

You're missing the point entirely, Grace. My point is that fraud is a very real possibility, especially with something as trivial as mail. You keep making small excuses to tackle something that is clearly a much bigger issue. It would be best if you didn't do this.

Should have clarified... they're both like each other in the sense that they will yell and scream into the void-- even when what they're saying is wrong or doesn't make sense.

Give me an example of Trump going so outrageously in one direction with regards to yelling that AOC has done. Because AOC pushes crap like the green new deal which fucks everyone, her first word was probably "racist" and she is always advocating for heavy socialist policies. What has Trump ever said that was so patently wrong that he kept on insisting was right? Policy or otherwise.

Trump is fairly middle of the road-- he was a lifelong Democrat who saw that he had a better opportunity to run as a Republican.

And amazingly, he wasn't a racist until he ran as a Republican! Imagine that!

The amazing thing is that he managed to convince Evangelicals that a thrice married man with a long history of philandering and pretty much no history of going to church--- that he was the perfect candidate for the "Party of Family Values" to back.

And.....? You're making this personal when I never asked about that. It's kind of funny how you aren't saying the same for AOC, yet you continuously say "Oh, but I hate the left, too."

He really is one hell of a negotiator. The only thing that keeps me from just despising the man is that often times his rhetoric is far more right than his actual action.

Examples, Grace. Fucking list some EXAMPLES. You keep mouthing off with general statements but you never cite specific instances to back your claim. And you also repeatedly say "Oh, but I also hate Biden or AOC" or anyone on the left but I have yet to see you attack them as strongly as you do Trump, even though they have documented failures in their political lives.

Mainly in his posturing and grandstanding. "Draining the Swamp", "Bad Hombres", etc.

Draining the swamp is actually a pretty damn good thing. I think we can all agree that politicians have repeatedly backstabbed the people and this is because of things like special interests and/or lobbyists. Also, corruption in the justice departments is also a very real thing. What, you don't want politicians to be clean? You don't want them to be held accountable? Why? Because Trump says so?

Bad hombres refers to the drug cartels that cross the border illegally. And those guys ARE bad hombres.

What exactly is your deal, Grace? You don't like his lack of eloquence? He's too simple? So what? He's not perfect. Next

[Grace Preston]

Oh I don't hate everyone on the left.. but I do absolutely hate the new breed of far left nutbaggery that's become the loudest mouthpieces. You would think that nominating Biden over the rest of the field should have been the clue that the majority of Dems still don't buy into the AOC and company "brand" of liberalism. I don't hate Biden.. I just think he's a shit candidate that hasn't managed to do much of anything of value in a 40 year career. And... how is my saying Trump is one hell of a negotiator an attack? I'm not being sarcastic... he is quite skilled in that regard.




In terms of rhetoric vs. actions.. just watch any of his speeches. He knows how to rile up the loudest of his base. I personally don't think the man is a racist-- but I do feel he's a classist. He plays the poorest of the party like a fiddle... I actually admire his ability to convince Bubba in the trailer that he cares about them as much as he cares about Chip on Wall Street. He's a natural salesman, and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. But in actual policy-- he's fairly moderate (except when it comes to business--- and c'mon.. its his wheelhouse). I think President Trump is far less of a threat domestically than President Pence would be.



I used "Drain the Swamp".. because thus far it seems that a lot of people that he opted to surround himself with are the ones who have been "drained". And honestly and sincerely-- I don't blame that on Trump. He's a businessman... and its quite the learning curve to jump from business to politics. The shit you can get away with in business won't fly as easily in government. I'd love to see the corruption removed from politics.. but I don't think Trump is the one that'll do it. He's a lifelong businessman... while he may have a problem with corruption.. he doesn't have a problem with special interests. And.. I don't blame him for that... you don't shift gears easily-- 50 years into the drive.



I've been Facebook jailed for something as minor as calling someone a redneck-- yet Facebook states that a person saying "We really should just eliminate all Jews"... is "within guidelines". I think some folk at Facebook are trying too hard to say "SEE-- SEE HOW BALANCED WE ARE". Look-- I know they aren't.. but I also know that... they don't apply their rules fairly.


Youtube has been shit for a long time. You can have your videos demonitized simply for talking about the obesity epidemic.



You have a problem with Rogan's stance on marijuana? Why? Its no worse than alcohol and if anything, has shown to have some benefits. I'm not personally a smoker due to lifelong asthma issues... but I know it was a lifesaver for my dad his last years of life. I'm always curious when I come across people who are dead against it.



Oh.. I just realized I confused the florist case with the baker case... it was the florists who found themselves sued over releasing personal info that resulted in the couple being threatened and harassed. In the case of the baker-- it was due to violating state law that protected the couple. One of the things about being in business is that you need to know the laws of where you operate. I personally wouldn't have sued them-- I would have just moved the fuck on... but... under the law, the couple was within their rights to do so. I think its shit but... the fact remains-- we tell people to "just obey the law" all the time.

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

In terms of rhetoric vs. actions.. just watch any of his speeches. He knows how to rile up the loudest of his base. I personally don't think the man is a racist-- but I do feel he's a classist. He plays the poorest of the party like a fiddle... I actually admire his ability to convince Bubba in the trailer that he cares about them as much as he cares about Chip on Wall Street. He's a natural salesman, and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. But in actual policy-- he's fairly moderate (except when it comes to business--- and c'mon.. its his wheelhouse). I think President Trump is far less of a threat domestically than President Pence would be.

I've watched quite a few of his speeches. His off-the-cuff rallies are pretty wild and yes, they do appeal to the more Trumpcentric supporters. But isn't that all politicians? You won't see AOC or her squad ever talking to moderates even in her own party. But his state of the unions and his event speeches ar VERY bipartisan and you'd have to be a petty cynic not to respect the content of his written speeches. As for Pence, I don't know where he stands on policies, so that's always up for debate later.

I used "Drain the Swamp".. because thus far it seems that a lot of people that he opted to surround himself with are the ones who have been "drained". And honestly and sincerely-- I don't blame that on Trump. He's a businessman... and its quite the learning curve to jump from business to politics. The shit you can get away with in business won't fly as easily in government. I'd love to see the corruption removed from politics.. but I don't think Trump is the one that'll do it. He's a lifelong businessman... while he may have a problem with corruption.. he doesn't have a problem with special interests. And.. I don't blame him for that... you don't shift gears easily-- 50 years into the drive.

No, Grace, no. Politicians and people in government have seemingly endless amounts of rope to grab onto, regardless of how deep they are. Politicians get away way, way more than those in the business sector. Look at Hilary Clinton and Benghazi. Or her 30000 emails. Or selling Plutonium. Or Haiti. Look at Obama and Fast n Furious. Or him illegally passing Obamacare. Or passing DACA without congressional approval. Look at Bush starting pointless wars for no reason. Politicians SUCK. And what's worse, we're paying them. That cop who killed Floyd? He was reprimanded multiple times but he kept getting away with it.

I think some folk at Facebook are trying too hard to say "SEE-- SEE HOW BALANCED WE ARE". Look-- I know they aren't.. but I also know that... they don't apply their rules fairly.

They might be trying too hard, yes. In general though, if speech doesn't incite violence, FB should just let it be

You have a problem with Rogan's stance on marijuana? Why? Its no worse than alcohol and if anything, has shown to have some benefits. I'm not personally a smoker due to lifelong asthma issues... but I know it was a lifesaver for my dad his last years of life. I'm always curious when I come across people who are dead against it.

I believe he's for legalizing it across the board. I don't think this is the best idea because marijuana from 20 years ago isn't nearly as potent as it is today. And, yeah, smoking weed does no good and kills your productivity. That being said, I do support marijuana usage for medicinal use. If someone wanted to smoke it for health reasons, then I support it.. because, you know, fuck big Pharma.

Oh.. I just realized I confused the florist case with the baker case... it was the florists who found themselves sued over releasing personal info that resulted in the couple being threatened and harassed. In the case of the baker-- it was due to violating state law that protected the couple. One of the things about being in business is that you need to know the laws of where you operate. I personally wouldn't have sued them-- I would have just moved the fuck on... but... under the law, the couple was within their rights to do so. I think its shit but... the fact remains-- we tell people to "just obey the law" all the time.

The baker was also protected by law. It's called the First Amendment. Making a Christian bake a cake for a wedding that they don't support isn't discrimination. It's them exercising their freedom of religion. The FIRST amendment in the Bill of Rights. There is literally no other law more important. The gay couple doesn't have the right to cake.

Making a Christian bake a cake for something he or she is against is like saying a black person should bake a cake for someone wearing a white hood and holding a noose. Or a Jew to bake a cake for someone wearing a Swatistika armband.

[Grace Preston]

Ehh.. in the bakers case... they admitted to doing a cake for a "dog wedding".. and in my minds eye-- its a bit hypocritical to refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding citing "religion"... yet making cakes for 2nd marriages, etc. Still a believer that a person in business ought to have the right to make those decisions for themselves but.... we also need to figure out the line where discrimination ends and personal rights begin. I mean... otherwise we're looking at having restaurants refuse to serve people of color due to personal beliefs. Its a strange rabbit hole, honestly.



I guess what I mean when I talk about business vs. government... is that when you spent 30 years in business, you aren't prepared for the microscope you tend to find yourself in when you enter the political arena. I don't even think Trump was prepared for it-- and I honestly feel really bad for Melania-- she gets a lot of ire that she's done nothing to deserve.


I'm for full legalization of marijuana under the premise that it honestly isn't any worse than anything you'll find at the liquor store. While I know that's not a glowing endorsement... if anything, habitual use does far less physical harm than long term habitual use of alcohol. Sin tax it like you do all other vices and enjoy the money rolling in. Also-- legalization on the federal level would allow those who run dispensaries in legal states to have the same tax and banking benefits that every other business is afforded. As long as its illegal on the federal level, they don't have access to business banking at most institutions.. and they don't get the same business tax breaks that every other brick and mortar store gets.