What If Trump Is Not Elected?

[ICU 812]

Originally Posted by Tiny

You pose the question, "Will any of the freedoms and protections of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution itself survive?" Of course, this is America. Not a lot will change. Although yes, if several conservative members of the Supreme Court croak and are replaced then you could see gun owners having a tougher time.

Tiny: Thanks for that well reasoned analysis of my OP.

My only quibble is on gun control. I was less concerned about gun control itself and more concerned about the apparent ease at which a state legislature could modify a specific amendment in the Bill of Rights. I tried to make my point by extending the argument into the absurd; as in it would seem absurd to forbid the publication of an Op-Ed authored by anyone under the age of thirty. The truly absurd extension is to extend the age beyond the average life expectancy. But there is a defiant trend towards speech control today. This may be less absurd than I first thought.

I happened again when a state legislature suspended several aspects of the First Amendment regarding both the freedom to worship and the right of assembly. To my astonishment, this has been upheld by the Supreme Court.

Even though we thought there were conservative appointees there, it seems some have drunk the Cool-Aid so to speak. This is another reason, perhaps the strongest and over-riding reason to return Trump in November.

[Tiny]

ICU, I'm disturbed too by speech control. You see it in universities a lot, with educators getting fired and speakers being barred for throwing out ideas or even words that are politically incorrect.

We do disagree somewhat on freedom to worship and right of assembly in the Covid-19 environment. Given the research that's come out recently on masks, I agree that there's no reason to restrict either. But unlike you I believe masks should be required when people are indoors in large groups and they shouldn't be packed together closely. The argument I'd make is that it's like seat belts. We require people use them and they save lives.

I liked your OP btw, lots of food for though.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by pfunkdenver

I'll vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is. I won't waste my vote on a 3rd party. I want Trump out of office.

I figure I've got a better chance of buying a $2.00 lottery ticket and getting back $100 million+ than have my vote count. The same is true for you. Biden will carry Colorado by much more than a few votes.

If neither of the major party candidates deserves my vote I'll give it to someone else.

[farmstud60]

If Trump loses the United States is done as the country set up by the Constitution. It is really that simple.

[ICU 812]

Originally Posted by Tiny

If neither of the major party candidates deserves my vote I'll give it to someone else.

I have thought that way in the past.

I have since decided that if I can't vote FOR someone, I'll look to vote AGAINST someone. It is my heartfelt belief that the single most important criteria for selecting a candidate to get my vote is now, and always wil b,e . . .WHO WILL HE NOMINATE AS FEDERAL JUDGES? The Supreme Court is just one federal bench, but it is the big one.
This single concept dominates my choice in voting for a president.

Piny: All good stuff. Wish we could talk about this over coffee some afternoon. Given the times, locations and this meeting venue, I think not. I choose to not have any" Hobby" Pals.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by Tiny

ICU, I'm disturbed too by speech control. You see it in universities a lot, with educators getting fired and speakers being barred for throwing out ideas or even words that are politically incorrect.

We do disagree somewhat on freedom to worship and right of assembly in the Covid-19 environment. Given the research that's come out recently on masks, I agree that there's no reason to restrict either. But unlike you I believe masks should be required when people are indoors in large groups and they shouldn't be packed together closely. The argument I'd make is that it's like seat belts. We require people use them and they save lives.

I liked your OP btw, lots of food for though.

I would agree "IF" those people were forced liked a court of law or a voting station if you had no other choice on how to vote like at home or an essential private property like a grocery store but a rally, where you chose to go knowing the risk? That would seem to be on the face of it a violation of your constitutional right to assemble on private property in a place you did not need to be.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

.

I happened again when a state legislature suspended several aspects of the First Amendment regarding both the freedom to worship and the right of assembly. To my astonishment, this has been upheld by the Supreme Court.

which court?? state supreme court or scotus?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

I would agree "IF" those people were forced liked a court of law or a voting station if you had no other choice on how to vote like at home or an essential private property like a grocery store but a rally, where you chose to go knowing the risk? That would seem to be on the face of it a violation of your constitutional right to assemble on private property in a place you did not need to be.

Yeah, assembly on private property must be protected. And also we should exercise common sense in how we do that given the Covid-19 epidemic.

I think the argument is stronger for masks than for seat belts. They both save lives. The difference is that seat belts are mostly for the benefit of the person who's wearing them, so there's a strong argument that decision should be left up to the individual. Admittedly though that's not entirely true because the taxpayer and other insurance policy holders often pick up the tab for the medical expenses.

With masks, you're protecting other people more than you're protecting yourself. You're less of a health risk to others when you wear one. But like you in general I don't like the government telling people what to do, unless it's necessary. For masks, the benefits to the economy and to public health outweigh the abridgment of freedom IMHO.

I'm probably a hypocrite because I am eating in restaurants, although trying to stay away from the crowded ones where you can't social distance.

[pfunkdenver]

Originally Posted by farmstud60

If Trump loses the United States is done as the country set up by the Constitution. It is really that simple.

Please explain. We need details.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Tiny

...Given the research that's come out recently on masks, I agree that there's no reason to restrict either. But unlike you I believe masks should be required when people are indoors in large groups ...

Here is how it actually works; If you want to wear a mask, I will support you 110%. When you tell others what they should do, based on your stoop-assed opinion of facts that do not support even basic logic, then I ask you to to try telling me so to my face. You will have to defend yourself in more ways than one. Give that shit up.

Now, would I attend a large gathering, in a packed crowd and wear a mask? It depends on how I feel at that time, not on how you feel at any time. If you cannot respect that, then stay the hell out of public life for as long as you feel the need to.

I do not exist to make you feel better about the world. I do exist to pursue my life, liberty, and my own happiness. Take vitamin C, D, and eat a balanced and well thought out diet, exercise, got your body in order and stay the flip away from my decisions or deal with those consequences. Seems simple enough.

The human body is a marvel that science cannot replicate. Appreciated and support it. It is a divine creation. It was created to survive. If you are skeered, - stay the hell home in a basement or whatever. Nobody will give a flip. Ya dig?

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by pfunkdenver

Please explain. We need details.

Peaceful protests - from the other side. Hope they are to your own definition.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

When you tell others what they should do, based on your stoop-assed opinion of facts that do not support even basic logic, then I ask you to to try telling me so to my face. You will have to defend yourself in more ways than one. Give that shit up.

Excellent illustration of what ICU and I were discussing. It's not just ANTIFA and radicals on college campuses who want to shut down free speech.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Excellent illustration of what ICU and I were discussing. It's not just ANTIFA and radicals on college campuses who want to shut down free speech.

You can speak, preach and screech all you want at home. But if you are in my face, get your facts straight. Your free speech is fine, but so is mine - to call absolute BS on your garbage. Kinda the whole deal with that free speech gig. Sorry, it's a swinging saloon door.

Besides, Fauci and the Surgeon General being against them, the rest of science, including WHO are as well. Trivia question; what date - exactly- did Fauci change his stance and what changed the day before that? Bet you don't even know the answer to either of those. Fauci changed his "public" image on May 8th. Why? What was going on on May 7th?

Find an image of him wearing a mask in his public briefings with GEPOTUS Trump between March 1st and May 7th and I'll find the 60 Minutes interview of him from March talking about no need for masks. Deal? You first.

Like I said; you wanna wear a mask - Just do it, but STFU about it already. Before I forget, you can take it Greek for contact tracing as well. Who knows, maybe you get a tip for it even. How's that free speechy thing working out?

Suffocation and Breakouts: Face Masks Wreaking Havoc on Human Body

...Mandatory face mask orders are not only preventing people from breathing properly, but also from having clear skin.

Aside from inhibiting face-to-face communication, recent reports describe people complaining about being unable to breathe while wearing face masks recommended by the CDC, especially as summer rages on.

I Can’t Breathe

“It’s like suffocating. Absolutely suffocating,” one person recently told CBS Pittsburgh, adding that on hot days, “I feel like I’m in a melting pot.”

“It definitely limits activity and that’s why I think you see so many people with them just on the mouth,” another person said, while a pro-mask interviewee wearing a bandana said, “It’s a little sweaty, but it’s worth it not spreading coronavirus.”

Complaints from people claiming they’re unable to breathe while wearing masks are also piling up on social media....

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

... 6.2 trillion dollars in play-money, to keep us from collapsing? ...

How close to 62.0 TRILLION do you think it would be if it was up to Piglozi and Schmuckmer exclusively?

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by farmstud60

If Trump loses the United States is done as the country set up by the Constitution. It is really that simple.

Obama/Biden did the same GDP numbers as Trump. The only difference was when Obama hit 2.9% it was considered slow growth. When Trump hit 2.9% it was considered breaking a record.

When Obama took office wall street was going broke. When Obama left office wall street was profitable again. Thanks Obama. Thanks Tim Geitner. The DJIA gained 12,000 points under Obama. Everyone's 401K and Roth IRA went up, up and up.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543