what to do about Saudi Arabia

[VitaMan]

Now more tapes on the Khasoggi killing at the embassy, very detailed.


Does anyone believe this happened at the embassy without approval by the Prince ?
What to do about it ?

[O'Mike]

They viewed him as a terrorist. They addressed their issue of him being a terrorist in their eyes with the resources available to them at the time.


Some countries deal with that stuff in different ways. Obama sent a drone to kill an American citizen, Anwar al-Awlakihe, that was viewed as a terrorist (without due process). How much hell did he catch for that?



The Saudis are walking a very thin razors edge in keeping their society under control. They must deal with any threat to keep that region at a warm simmer and avoid as long as possible a regime change that will through the entire region into more turmoil than it already is in.



We got bigger issues over there than that now.

[boardman]

The Prince knew and probably ordered the killing.
We don't need to do a damn thing about it.
Kashoggi was Saudi.

To the Saudis he was their Julian Assange.
Anyone who's been there or knows anyone who has been there know the Saudis don't play. That's part of the reason Saudi Arabia has remained stable in that region. There is no question that Sharia law is the law of the land and everyone knows the punishment for breaking the law. It's severe and they enforce it. Kashoggi knew what he was doing. He paid the price for it.


As Americans, a lot of times we have a problem understanding that church and state are one in the same in most of the world especially in the the middle east but it's not just the middle east. We don't like other countries criticizing our politics but for some reason we think we have the moral authority to criticize anything that doesn't look like a true democratic republic. Problem is some countries, and their people, can't handle it that kind of government..
Remember what Ben Franklin said to the lady when asked what kind of government the founders had come up with a Republic or a Monarchy...His answer, "A Republic if you can keep it".

The last thing we need to do is anything that would destabilize the absolute monarchy of Saudi Arabia. It would feed fuel to a smoldering fire that would make Arab Spring look like a Friday night carnival.
The Saudi's do a pretty good job of minding their own business. We probably should let them.

[VitaMan]

Well stated points of view.


However, all we hear about is the vast oil wealth of Saudi Arabia. Only the members of the royal family see any of that.


At least in Alaska, you get your share of the royalties as a resident. And be proud to be an American.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Well stated points of view.


However, all we hear about is the vast oil wealth of Saudi Arabia. Only the members of the royal family see any of that.

Anymore we hear what the media and bloggers want to tell us.

Sometimes we hear what we want to hear.



Average salary in Saudi is $64k with only a 14% difference between gross and net and a 5.5% unemployment rate

I'd say they're doing OK.
https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/saudi-arabia

[azteclust]

Saudi knew what they did and so ordered the killing. US ain't going to do nothing about it. Is Saudi Arabia the only Ally in the middle East and has complete control of world oil. Don't want to messed with them, let them do whatever they feel like in their kingdom.

[lizardking]

Khashoggi was a journalist. How can a journalist be fairly and reasonably characterized as a terrorist? By any definition, terrorism involves the use of violence for political ends. Writing is not violence.


In my opinion, the Saudis are the leading candidates for the title of "worst people in the world". We only tolerate them because of their influence in international energy markets. Although The Kingdom may itself be stable because of the iron fist of the monarchy and its oppressive and exploitative practices, it is arguably a destabilizing force in the Middle East. Most all of the Sunni fundamentalist bullshit that has destabilized the region emanates from Saudi Arabia in the form of Wahhabism. Bin Laden and 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. Al Qaeda and ISIS are both of Saudi origin, and their animating philosophy is essentially militarized Wahhabism.



Fuck the Saudis. Counting them as allies is a disgrace to American ideals.

[VitaMan]

"America stands for democracy"


umm, have to get back to you later on that

[Huachinango]

Might not be well received and only a bit knowledgeable about the region, history, and energy sector in the US or globally.

But, it seems a good strategy is to find a way to move beyond relationships with these tribal, medieval fucks that view women as property and lead the way to the next steps.

May be that I am ignorant and that is already underway, but the ME is a cesspool and has been for a long time. (And, yes I know a bit about the Great Game and the West's role in it).

[O'Mike]

Originally Posted by lizardking

Khashoggi was a journalist. How can a journalist be fairly and reasonably characterized as a terrorist? By any definition, terrorism involves the use of violence for political ends. Writing is not violence.

Not true at all.


If he was using his writing to recruit, motivate, influence others commit violence, political upheaval and into his way of thinking. Terrorists are just not those actual individuals that commit the atrocities, they are also those that provide material, moral and other forms of support for their activities. Plus we don't know what other activities he was involved in that the security service of SA may be aware of.



From what I understand about him, he was attempting to destabilize the regime in the kingdom. (I also understand that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.) It depends on what side of the conflict you are on determines your stance on this. I don't support the way that government operates, nor do I support most in that region. However I can step back and attempt to look at it unbiased and see how they can justify their positions.



Many hide behind their journalism credentials to provide themselves and their media outlets greater exposure and shirk the responsibility for what they write.



We see today how media outlets can get people whipped into a frenzy about a certain issue, whether justified or not.



I don't think the Saudis want an Arab Spring type uprising igniting in their country. Such an event could toss the entire middle east into a violent turmoil that would leave the region violently destabilized for decades and a massive loss of life and treasure. One way that would lead to that is a terrorist propaganda campaign getting populations stirred up.




.