Socialism, the God That Failed - Again and Again and Again

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

not to mention that the fact that Obmacare is unfixable.

fixing one provision breaks another provision some where in the code. it will take years to straighten it out.


its a complicated hot mess that didn't need to be created in the first place.

So let the politicians come up with a health care program that is better. It certainly wasn't the plan offered by Republicans in 2017. I believe we are better off than we were prior to Obamacare. Some people got hurt, millions got insured. I realize that since this forum is predominantly frequented by Trump supporters and since Trump says Obamacare is bad, his minions nod their heads in agreement.

Trump says he has a wonderful new health plan but won't give us the details until after he is re-elected.

And if you believe that, I have some wonderful water front property in the Everglades in Florida to sell you.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/02/u...ald-trump.html

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by bb1961

Your turncoat McVain...who lied like always...don't mislead how the Republicans voted as a majority!!
Obummercare is only popular with the people getting massive Gumment subsidies
You never elaborated on the great success of Socialized medicine...it's the left's greatest wish to force this shit on the American people...No Republican voted on this terrible legislation...and rightfully so.
You being a hummmm....Capitalist should know better...I guess your a bleeding heart capitalist
What was the Republican program...SPEED????
P.S. As if you didn't know obummercare is one step away for socialized medicine...can't have it both ways SPEED.

When you take the time to learn and understand what socialism is then we can continue the discussion.

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/

noun

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Is Obamacare "Socialized Medicine"?

Socialized Medicine

Socialized medicine in its strictest sense, is a single-payer government-run and -delivered system. In a socialized medicine model, the government provides all services from your doctors and providers to the hospitals and other facilities, and all payments for those services. Some looser translations of socialized medicine allow for private providers and facilities, but that practice is not usual; typically, private payment and independent for-profit providers are either discouraged or forbidden.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/is-un...dicine-3969754

Myth 3: Obamacare is socialized medicine, like in Canada or the United Kingdom.

Truth: Not really. In the UK, doctors are employees of the federal government. In Canada, the government pays most medical bills. That's similar to America's Medicare and Medicaid. The ACA does expand Medicaid to middle-income families, but most of the expansion is in the private insurance market.

Why do more than half (57 percent) of Americans think the ACA is socialized medicine? President Obama’s initial proposal included universal health care. That included Congress, which rejected his proposal. Ironically, Obamacare now forces Congress onto the private exchanges, just like everyone else. So, in that particular case, the ACA reduced socialized medicine.

https://www.thebalance.com/the-truth...macare-3306075

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Randall Creed

Did you even GLANCE at the chart, bro??

You keep talking about Venezuela and shit.

I'll type slow this time.

It's not about dragging down fools that benefit from runaway capitalism. It's about RAISING THE ACCEPTABLE MINIMAL STANDARD.

Again, did you look at the chart?


And I 'demonize' them because they don't pay taxes (which is one of the reasons why runaway capitalism is what it is). THEY'RE RIGGING THE SHIT OUT OF THE SYSTEM.

How the FUCK does a company make $100B in profits and don't pay a goddamn dime in taxes???? How??

How is that ECONOMICALLY possible!?!?

Explain that shit to me, dude!! Break it down Barney level, so my 'feeble', mortal brain can comprehend it (rhetorical...since there's no group of words that you can put together to convince me).

You need to read some of historian-anthropologist Jared Diamond's work. He has proffered that if individuals would wait until they are adults to spawn offspring instead of having offspring while they are in school -- offspring who distract the too young parents from their own education and opportunity to establish a legitimate economic foundation to raise a family -- would be a great first step.

As it is, society has to deal with the negative consequences of illiterates raising illiterates who beget still more illiterates who celebrate being grandmothers before they are age 35. It's a destructive cycle of poverty of their own making: offspring who sap the wealth and financial stability of their parents by forcing those parents to deal with the financial costs of raising yet another generation on an already too meager income -- that, sir, is what perpetuates poverty.

There's few opportunities to accumulate wealth for those who approach procreation without forethought and concern for the economic consequences of "living in the moment". It's not smart, and it's the bedrock cause of poverty.

There was a time in polite society when a young man wouldn't consider getting married until he had established himself with a stable job and a modicum of savings at which time he could become a dependable and providing husband and father. There was a time when intelligent parents wouldn't let their daughters marry and have children until they had a husband who could be a dependable and providing husband and father. Education, personal industry and intelligent forbearance is the way to end the vicious cycle of poverty -- and that can be achieved without state intervention.

[kehaar]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

There was a time in polite society when a young man wouldn't consider getting married until he had established himself with a stable job and a modicum of savings at which time he could become a dependable and providing husband and father. There was a time when intelligent parents wouldn't let their daughters marry and have children until they had a husband who could be a dependable and providing husband and father. Education, personal industry and intelligent forbearance is the way to end the vicious cycle of poverty -- and that can be achieved without state intervention.

Why do that when you can foist the education and sustenance requirements on the government and go knock up a different chick.

What they are doing is the equivalent of the what the nordic hordes did to Europeans, which is to rape/impregnate the women of the villages that they sacked in order to spread their seed without having to actually raise the children. As a biological spreading strategy, it was/is brilliant.

Most women who choose a worthless parasite for a baby daddy have chosen to be poor, and are themselves parasites. The faster we educate the potential parasites of that basic incontrovertible fact, the better off most of us will be. The only people who would suffer from that knowledge are the worthless parasites who won't take care of their children.

[rexdutchman]

Remember socialists want you to forget History ,,,, And All the failures

[eccieuser9500]

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by Randall Creed

Do a search on the name idea/handle topic.

If any multimillionaires are hanging out on a whore board, odds are they aren't REAL multimillionaires.

Then again, maybe you're just a dill hole, born rounding third base, spending your dad's hard stolen wealth, sitting in a room with 9 computer monitors (with everything from gaming to porn), weighing 380lbs because of chugging down cheetos and flat beer around the clock, never having worked a COLLECTIVE 40 hours in your life, let alone in one week, telling me that I'm not applying myself hard enough in the work force, even though you know deep down the race is rigged for 90% of the People to fail, while our sorry ass politicians sit back and turn a blind eye to it (then again, it's hard to see all this when your pupils have mutated into dollar signs).

I'd be amazed if a shitload of millionaires were hanging around a board like this, chasing and harassing 2-300 dollar escorts. Why not go after the more expensive ladies, since you have money to burn, apparently?

You don't have a fucking idea if Kraft is a member of this board...NUFF SAID!!
I think the DEM party are the ones trying to keep the poor in the state their in...otherwise the DEMS wouldn't have a reason to exist.
The DEMS seem to be succeeding at having the class warfare tactic work...you're eating it up...you're just another victim...you poor fella!
The thing you don't see or it might just be your identity politics that has you guzzling the cool-aid...what you don't realized is that your DEM heroes are part of the millions you hate!!
What you don't understand is wealth is created and socialism REDISTRIBUTES it...it's called other peoples money...your hero Obummer likes to "spread it around".
You're the only one limiting yourself.
Why didn't LBJ's "GREAT SOCIETY" of 55 yrs. ago that wasted TRILLIONS in "wealth redistribution" not work....DO TELL!!

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

When you take the time to learn and understand what socialism is then we can continue the discussion.

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/

noun

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Is Obamacare "Socialized Medicine"?

Socialized Medicine

Socialized medicine in its strictest sense, is a single-payer government-run and -delivered system. In a socialized medicine model, the government provides all services from your doctors and providers to the hospitals and other facilities, and all payments for those services. Some looser translations of socialized medicine allow for private providers and facilities, but that practice is not usual; typically, private payment and independent for-profit providers are either discouraged or forbidden.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/is-un...dicine-3969754

Myth 3: Obamacare is socialized medicine, like in Canada or the United Kingdom.

Truth: Not really. In the UK, doctors are employees of the federal government. In Canada, the government pays most medical bills. That's similar to America's Medicare and Medicaid. The ACA does expand Medicaid to middle-income families, but most of the expansion is in the private insurance market.

Why do more than half (57 percent) of Americans think the ACA is socialized medicine? President Obama’s initial proposal included universal health care. That included Congress, which rejected his proposal. Ironically, Obamacare now forces Congress onto the private exchanges, just like everyone else. So, in that particular case, the ACA reduced socialized medicine.

https://www.thebalance.com/the-truth...macare-3306075

As always you addressed NOTHING of my statement but the NIGHTMARE of obummercare as if the shit help anyone but the people who can't afford insurance in the first place.

The astronomical rates that many pay now and didn't before this ONE party throat shoving NIGHTMARE of obummercare you DON"T address that...I fucking wonder why??

You still haven't told us what the disastrous Republican plan is that you have stated over and over...and you won't tell us now...wonder why??

Why was there an insurance mandate to force insurance on people that didn't want it...maybe so that money could pay for those that couldn't afford it....do I hear socialized...DO TELL SPEED.
Thank god they got rid of that unconstitutional shit.

It's those on the left that go apoplectic at the thought obummercare going away...I wonder why SPEED...the people like myself that have always paid for their insurance don't seem to be concerned about this disastrous legislation disappearing.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You need to read some of historian-anthropologist Jared Diamond's work. He has proffered that if individuals would wait until they are adults to spawn offspring instead of having offspring while they are in school -- offspring who distract the too young parents from their own education and opportunity to establish a legitimate economic foundation to raise a family -- would be a great first step.

As it is, society has to deal with the negative consequences of illiterates raising illiterates who beget still more illiterates who celebrate being grandmothers before they are age 35. It's a destructive cycle of poverty of their own making: offspring who sap the wealth and financial stability of their parents by forcing those parents to deal with the financial costs of raising yet another generation on an already too meager income -- that, sir, is what perpetuates poverty.

There's few opportunities to accumulate wealth for those who approach procreation without forethought and concern for the economic consequences of "living in the moment". It's not smart, and it's the bedrock cause of poverty.

There was a time in polite society when a young man wouldn't consider getting married until he had established himself with a stable job and a modicum of savings at which time he could become a dependable and providing husband and father. There was a time when intelligent parents wouldn't let their daughters marry and have children until they had a husband who could be a dependable and providing husband and father. Education, personal industry and intelligent forbearance is the way to end the vicious cycle of poverty -- and that can be achieved without state intervention.

Don't expect a response. Randall tends to come into a thread, vent, and then leave. If you've got a halfway valid argument that challenges what he believes, he'll ignore it.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

You are correct in that Obamacare has its faults. Let's fix them rather than start anew.

SpeedRacer, The problem with Obamacare is that if doubles down on a failed system. We're spending something like 17% of GDP on health costs in the USA, much more than any other developed countries, and still have an average life expectancy behind Costa Rica. Also the 3.8% investment tax that finances Obamacare reduces the capital available to grow the economy. Between Medicare, Medicaid and Obamacare, a large part of the electorate thinks there's nothing wrong with the system, because they're getting medical care for much less than what it actually costs.

Neither party is talking about solutions to this problem. Other countries have universal health care that costs a lot less and produces better outcomes, and we should copy them. Being a Libertarian Republican, I'd prefer introducing real competition to the system, so that hospitals, doctors and drug companies have to compete for business based on price. But admittedly even a bare bones socialized medical system run by people who know what they're doing existing side by side with optional private medical care could be better than what we have now.

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Neither party is talking about solutions to this problem. Other countries have universal health care that costs a lot less and produces better outcomes, and we should copy them. Being a Libertarian Republican, I'd prefer introducing real competition to the system, so that hospitals, doctors and drug companies have to compete for business based on price. But admittedly even a bare bones socialized medical system run by people who know what they're doing existing side by side with optional private medical care could be better than what we have now.

Please give a cogent thesis on this nonsensical garbage you're spouting here.
This dichotomy of yours is priceless...a contradiction in terms that is nothing less than absurdly ridiculous.

Hey tiny AOC gives a brilliant answer about the lost cost of universal healthcare....what is her answer...DO TELL!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG3zpRVKBE4

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by bb1961

Please give a cogent thesis on this nonsensical garbage you're spouting here.
This dichotomy of yours is priceless...a contradiction in terms that is nothing less than absurdly ridiculous.

Hey tiny AOC gives a brilliant answer about the lost cost of universal healthcare....what is her answer...DO TELL!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG3zpRVKBE4

Yep, you and AOC both think money grows on trees. You want to go back to the good old days before Obamacare when we only paid 16% of GDP on health care. AOC wants to double down and expand Medicare to everyone, maybe run it up over 20%. Either way government health care (Medicare) bankrupts the country.

As to the "nonsensical garbage," I'll provide two examples.

Hong Kong has a bare bones socialized medical system, with government run hospitals, that provides universal health care. And it has a private system as well, so that people can pay to be treated by their own physicians and private hospitals if they wish. The health care system in Hong Kong costs about 6% of GDP, of which government pays about half.

Singapore has a system where everyone has a health savings account. Instead of an insurance company calling the shots, individuals make their own spending decisions. They have the incentive to shop around for the best price and best quality. Singapore spends about 4.5% of GDP on health care, of which about 30% is paid for by the government.

The USA spends about 17.3% of GDP on health care. About half of this, to be exact 8.5% of GDP, is paid by the government. As the population ages, the % paid by government will increase because of Medicare.

Life expectancy in Hong Kong is 84 years. It's 83 years in Singapore. In the USA it's 79 years.

I'd prefer we had the Singapore system, which injects more competition into the system than what the USA has. But Hong Kong, with a bare bones socialized system and a private system running side-by-side, might be better than what we have now.

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Yep, you and AOC both think money grows on trees. You want to go back to the good old days before Obamacare when we only paid 16% of GDP on health care. AOC wants to double down and expand Medicare to everyone, maybe run it up over 20%. Either way government health care (Medicare) bankrupts the country.

As to the "nonsensical garbage," I'll provide two examples.

Hong Kong has a bare bones socialized medical system, with government run hospitals, that provides universal health care. And it has a private system as well, so that people can pay to be treated by their own physicians and private hospitals if they wish. The health care system in Hong Kong costs about 6% of GDP, of which government pays about half.

Singapore has a system where everyone has a health savings account. Instead of an insurance company calling the shots, individuals make their own spending decisions. They have the incentive to shop around for the best price and best quality. Singapore spends about 4.5% of GDP on health care, of which about 30% is paid for by the government.

The USA spends about 17.3% of GDP on health care. About half of this, to be exact 8.5% of GDP, is paid by the government. As the population ages, the % paid by government will increase because of Medicare.

Life expectancy in Hong Kong is 84 years. It's 83 years in Singapore. In the USA it's 79 years.

I'd prefer we had the Singapore system, which injects more competition into the system than what the USA has. But Hong Kong, with a bare bones socialized system and a private system running side-by-side, might be better than what we have now.

You continue with your nonsense...competition...WTF do you think free market Capitalism is!!
A socialist and private system running side-by-side...this must be where pig fly!!

You don't know anything about me. You are the one that thinks money grows on trees...free shit from obummercare is fucking up a healthcare system that is the best in the world.

The billionaires Saudis come here for their healthcare not to the countries you speak so highly of their healthcare.
If it were so great there then the Saudis would go there.

The innovations in healthcare in this country far exceed any other.
You should make your permanent residence in one the countries you have such admiration for their superior healthcare ...you'll live to be the oldest person ever!!

[Jackie S]

Any discussion about the pros and cons of socialism are rendered moot because they fail to account for the one constant factor though out history. Human.nature

Sooner or later, it will rear it’s head and those that produce will tire of supporting those that do not.

Then the entities in charge will have to make the decision as to how to deal with those who get fed up with supporting the system.

The usual solution is “re education”’ the system of forced compliance. If that fails.........put them against the wall.

[bb1961]

This debunks all of your garbage tiny...

https://youtu.be/T8Sf-Nmxkjo

As for Singapore and Hong Kong there is a huge difference it the population
in comparison to the US...you seem to have left that out of your discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_BXA4gyE2Q