BREAKING NEWS : McCAIN A TRAITOR AND A COMMUNIST

[oeb11]

Did John McCain Cause a Fire Aboard the USS Forrestal that Killed 134 People?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jo...uss-forrestal/


Claim

A catastrophic fire aboard the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in 1967 that killed 134 sailors and injured 161 was caused by reckless behavior on the part of then-Navy pilot John McCain.


Rating

False About this rating



Origin

Beginning in August 2017 and well into the fall, a series of pro-Trump fake news web sites took aim at the reputation of Trump administration critic Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) by regurgitating an old, fabricated account of what caused a catastrophic fire aboard the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in 1967. The naval disaster killed 134 sailors and injured 161—one of those survivors was McCain himself, who sustained minor injuries.
The web sites, several of which also defamed McCain as having been “a ‘rat’ or ‘stoolie’” during his five-and-a-half years of captivity as a POW in North Vietnam, laid out details claiming McCain was “personally responsible” for the deadly conflagration on the deck of the Forrestal.
For example, Liberty Today (LibertyInfo.net) reported on 18 October 2017:

The Navy released John McCain’s military record after a Freedom of Information Act request from the Associated Press. The record is packed with information on McCain’s medals and commendations but little else. The one thing that the McCain campaign does not want to see released is the record of McCain’s antics on board the USS Forestal in 1967. McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded trumps McCain’s record as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam.
WMR has learned additional details regarding the deadly fire aboard the Navy aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, on July 19, 1967 in the Gulf of Tonkin. The additional details point to then-Lt. Commander John McCain playing more of a role in triggering the fire and explosions than previously reported.
WMR has been informed that crewmen aboard the Forrestal have provided additional information about the Forrestal incident. It is believed by many crewmen and those who have investigated the case that McCain deliberately “wet-started” his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. “Wet-starts”, done either deliberately or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.
In McCain’s case, the “wet-start” apparently “cooked off” and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration. “Wet starting” was apparently a common practice among young “hot-dog” pilots.

Copied word-for-word from a blog post originally published in 2008, the text is an unholy mixture of inaccuracies and outright lies. For starters, the Associated Press’ FOIA that the post references actually revealed a slew of the military’s top awards and commendations. The post also asserts that “27 died” in the fire (there were 134 fatalities, in point of fact) and that the incident occurred on 19 July 1967 (it actually took place on 29 July). It further asserts that eyewitnesses and investigators evinced the belief that the explosion and fire were caused by McCain showing off by “wet-starting” his A-4 Skyhawk aircraft. (In pilot lingo, “wet-starting” a jet engine refers to flooding its combustion chamber with extra fuel before ignition, which usually results in a loud bang and/or plume of flame on start-up.)
There are no eyewitness accounts in the official record supporting that version of events, however. According to the U.S. Navy’s exhaustive investigation into the incident, the findings of which are summarized below in an excerpt from an article by Commander Hank Stewart, USN (Ret.), a naval engineer, the fire was actually caused by the accidental firing of an Mk-32 “Zuni” rocket as a result of an electrical power surge during preparations for a strike against a target in North Vietnam:

Several of the planes started their engines in preparation for launching. Without warning, a rocket was accidentally fired from an F-4 Phantom jet fighter. The rocket struck and ripped open an A-4 Skyhawk on the other side of the flight deck. The rocket passed through the aircraft without exploding and hit the ocean. However, several hundred gallons of jet fuel poured from the Skyhawk’s punctured fuel tank and was ignited by burning rocket fuel left on the flight deck. Burning fuel was spread by the heavy winds across the flight deck and covered several more planes. Within seconds, these aircraft began burning, and the fire continued to spread. The ship immediately sounded general quarters (sending the crew to their battle stations), and an announcement notified the crew of the fire on the flight deck. The heat of the fire exploded a bomb on the flight deck approximately 90 seconds after the fire began, and a second bomb exploded a few seconds later. These explosions severely damaged the carrier and killed several Sailors on the flight deck. The fuel tanks of other planes ruptured, adding to the intensity of the blaze. The exploding bombs also created several holes in the flight deck, spilling burning jet fuel into the ship and allowing fire and smoke to spread inside the ship.
Forrestal’s crew battled and eventually extinguished the fire, with assistance from other Navy ships in the area. It took more than 24 hours to extinguish the fires below the flight deck. The losses caused by this incident were high and included 134 Sailors killed by the fire, and 161 injured. More than 20 aircraft were destroyed. The damage forced Forrestal to suspend combat operations and conduct temporary repairs in the Philippines before returning to the U.S. for permanent repair. Repairs to the ship cost approximately $72 million (equal to more than $528 million in 2017 dollars), and took approximately two years to complete.

A harrowing, 18-minute documentary produced by the U.S. Navy includes actual footage of the fire:


https://youtu.be/U6NnfRT_OZA

U.S. Navy investigators found that the carrier personnel were inadequately trained or equipped to cope with such an emergency at the time, oversights which have since been corrected with improved vessel design, damage control procedures, and equipment.
As McCain remembered the incident in his 1999 book Faith of My Fathers, the accidentally-launched Zuni missile hit his own plane, “tearing it open, igniting two hundred gallons of fuel that spilled onto the deck, and knocking two of my bombs to the deck,” though the official Navy account said that it hit a nearby Skyhawk piloted by Lt. Cdr. Fred White instead (some sources speculate that it may have struck both planes simultaneously). In any case, as the explosions and fire spread, McCain helped dispose of several bombs over the side of the vessel before receiving medical treatment, he wrote in his book. He praised what he described as the “heroics” of his fellow crewmen, whom he believed saved the Forrestal from sinking.
John McCain retired from the U.S. Navy with the rank of captain in 1981. Among his many commendations were a Distinguished Flying Cross noting his “exceptional courage, superb airmanship, and total devotion to duty” during a bombing raid over Hanoi in 1967, and a Legion of Merit with Combat “V” award “for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services to the Government of the United States while interned as a Prisoner of War in North Vietnam from October 1967 to March 1973.”
On 28 July 2017, McCain tweeted a video about the Forresthttps://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/status/890994861037559810al fire to commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of the catastrophe

• Madsen, Wayne. “Navy Releases McCain’s Records.”
  Wayne Madsen Report. 19 May 2008.
• McCain, John and Mark Salter. Faith of My Fathers: A Family Memoir.
  New York: Random House, 1999. ISBN 9780399590894 (pp. 177-8).
• Moon, Troy. “Heroism Recalled 50 Years After Deadly Fire Aboard USS Forrestal.”
  Pensacola News Journal. 29 July 2017.
• Stewart, Hank. “How the 1967 Fire on USS Forrestal Improved Future U.S. Navy Damage Control Readiness.”
  The Sextant. 28 July 2017.
• Yates, Teddy. “USS Forrestal — Trial by Fire.”
  The Sextant. 29 July 2015.
• U.S. Dept. of the Navy. “Investigation of Forrestal Fire.”
  1 August 1969.

TRB - You served and I respect that greatly. There are differing opinions. Above is from Snopes. Trump should let McCain rest in peace and Shut Up about it.

It was a horrible accident. I seriously doubt any pilot deliberately loosed a rocket at McCains's plane
or that McCain deliberately wet-started his jet and caused the fire. All those pilots knew the risks of fire on a carrier deck. It would be suicide to deliberately start an accident like the Forrestal disaster.


Thank You , TRB - for your Service.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Dickey9090

It’s not about you and I , not about party , it’s about country. I don’t care who he or she is or was. Dead or Alive cHe was a traitor. You people don’t understand how important it is we are number 1.

AMERICA FIRST

MAGA

TRUMP

You libtard snowflakes wouldn’t like China or Russia ruling the world. Or isis.
Wake the fuck up. Dumb mother fuckers

I don't get it. Trump would dearly like to cozy up to Russia and ISIS undoubtedly loves seeing him leave Syria. His strategy, if you can call it that, on China is more ambiguous. Withdrawing from the TPP certainly wasn't a good idea if you're trying to rein China in on the world stage.

There's some extreme irony here. While Trump may just be right about Russia and Syria (I think he is) you disagree with him.
But you're telling the "dumb mother fuckers" to "wake the fuck up" about Russia and ISIS ruling the world. This is like Orwell's 1984, it makes no sense. Just like calling an American hero a traitor, because he got on Trump's bad side. Have you all been brainwashed?

Under Trump's influence, the Republican Party may just chase all the "RINO's" and the independents away, and how's that going to end up? The party would be in the political wilderness, with 60% of voters against them.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I don't get it. Trump would dearly like to cozy up to Russia and ISIS undoubtedly loves seeing him leave Syria. His strategy, if you can call it that, on China is more ambiguous. Withdrawing from the TPP certainly wasn't a good idea if you're trying to rein China in on the world stage.

There's some extreme irony here. While Trump may just be right about Russia and Syria (I think he is) you disagree with him.
But you're telling the "dumb mother fuckers" to "wake the fuck up" about Russia and ISIS ruling the world. This is like Orwell's 1984, it makes no sense.

Under Trump's influence, the Republican Party may just chase all the "RINO's" and the independents away, and how's that going to end up? The party would be in the political wilderness, with 60% of voters against them.

The Republicans today are all RINOs Tiny. This isn't your daddy's GOP.

[oeb11]

Same for the DPST far Leftists - epitomized by AOC and her Soylent Green New Deal
Extremists on both sides have hijacked the bully pulpit and are making nonsense Noise to the Center of America
Time for a new Centrist Party and cut the extremists adrift - perhaps they will come full circle and form their own socialist-fascist party and advocate for Maduro-Hitler National Socialism .
The TM/SC/YR Axis of SomeOne would be the first to sign up!

[lustylad]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about McCain and the Steele dossier.

Fuck all this other talk about McCain's war record. We already beat that horse to death last Summer. If you want to rehash it just go back and re-read this thread.

https://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=2410699

[FrankZappa]

This shows the mentality of the Trump supporters. True war hero's get accused of being communists and the Chickenhawks like Cheney and Trump love the military although they were too scared to serve. I didn't always agree with McCain but I do know he was a patriot. The internet creates lies and it is a sad commentary that people believe it. There was a guy that did this in 1939 and the German people did not know what was true or fake.

It is disturbing that people in this country actually post stuff from discredited fake websites. Try using that google button on your phone or computer.


Trump supporters just believe anything Trump says. History repeats itself again and again.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by FrankZappa

This shows the mentality of the Trump supporters. True war hero's get accused of being communists and the Chickenhawks like Cheney and Trump love the military although they were too scared to serve. I didn't always agree with McCain but I do know he was a patriot. The internet creates lies and it is a sad commentary that people believe it. There was a guy that did this in 1939 and the German people did not know what was true or fake.

It is disturbing that people in this country actually post stuff from discredited fake websites. Try using that google button on your phone or computer.


Trump supporters just believe anything Trump says. History repeats itself again and again.

You have to remember that Trump is Gay. I dont think they let gays in the military back then. Cheney s daughter is Gay so you know hes at least a little gay

[FrankZappa]

Originally Posted by oeb11

Did John McCain Cause a Fire Aboard the USS Forrestal that Killed 134 People?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jo...uss-forrestal/


Claim

A catastrophic fire aboard the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in 1967 that killed 134 sailors and injured 161 was caused by reckless behavior on the part of then-Navy pilot John McCain.


Rating

False About this rating



Origin

Beginning in August 2017 and well into the fall, a series of pro-Trump fake news web sites took aim at the reputation of Trump administration critic Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) by regurgitating an old, fabricated account of what caused a catastrophic fire aboard the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in 1967. The naval disaster killed 134 sailors and injured 161—one of those survivors was McCain himself, who sustained minor injuries.
The web sites, several of which also defamed McCain as having been “a ‘rat’ or ‘stoolie’” during his five-and-a-half years of captivity as a POW in North Vietnam, laid out details claiming McCain was “personally responsible” for the deadly conflagration on the deck of the Forrestal.
For example, Liberty Today (LibertyInfo.net) reported on 18 October 2017:

The Navy released John McCain’s military record after a Freedom of Information Act request from the Associated Press. The record is packed with information on McCain’s medals and commendations but little else. The one thing that the McCain campaign does not want to see released is the record of McCain’s antics on board the USS Forestal in 1967. McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded trumps McCain’s record as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam.
WMR has learned additional details regarding the deadly fire aboard the Navy aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, on July 19, 1967 in the Gulf of Tonkin. The additional details point to then-Lt. Commander John McCain playing more of a role in triggering the fire and explosions than previously reported.
WMR has been informed that crewmen aboard the Forrestal have provided additional information about the Forrestal incident. It is believed by many crewmen and those who have investigated the case that McCain deliberately “wet-started” his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. “Wet-starts”, done either deliberately or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.
In McCain’s case, the “wet-start” apparently “cooked off” and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration. “Wet starting” was apparently a common practice among young “hot-dog” pilots.

Copied word-for-word from a blog post originally published in 2008, the text is an unholy mixture of inaccuracies and outright lies. For starters, the Associated Press’ FOIA that the post references actually revealed a slew of the military’s top awards and commendations. The post also asserts that “27 died” in the fire (there were 134 fatalities, in point of fact) and that the incident occurred on 19 July 1967 (it actually took place on 29 July). It further asserts that eyewitnesses and investigators evinced the belief that the explosion and fire were caused by McCain showing off by “wet-starting” his A-4 Skyhawk aircraft. (In pilot lingo, “wet-starting” a jet engine refers to flooding its combustion chamber with extra fuel before ignition, which usually results in a loud bang and/or plume of flame on start-up.)
There are no eyewitness accounts in the official record supporting that version of events, however. According to the U.S. Navy’s exhaustive investigation into the incident, the findings of which are summarized below in an excerpt from an article by Commander Hank Stewart, USN (Ret.), a naval engineer, the fire was actually caused by the accidental firing of an Mk-32 “Zuni” rocket as a result of an electrical power surge during preparations for a strike against a target in North Vietnam:

Several of the planes started their engines in preparation for launching. Without warning, a rocket was accidentally fired from an F-4 Phantom jet fighter. The rocket struck and ripped open an A-4 Skyhawk on the other side of the flight deck. The rocket passed through the aircraft without exploding and hit the ocean. However, several hundred gallons of jet fuel poured from the Skyhawk’s punctured fuel tank and was ignited by burning rocket fuel left on the flight deck. Burning fuel was spread by the heavy winds across the flight deck and covered several more planes. Within seconds, these aircraft began burning, and the fire continued to spread. The ship immediately sounded general quarters (sending the crew to their battle stations), and an announcement notified the crew of the fire on the flight deck. The heat of the fire exploded a bomb on the flight deck approximately 90 seconds after the fire began, and a second bomb exploded a few seconds later. These explosions severely damaged the carrier and killed several Sailors on the flight deck. The fuel tanks of other planes ruptured, adding to the intensity of the blaze. The exploding bombs also created several holes in the flight deck, spilling burning jet fuel into the ship and allowing fire and smoke to spread inside the ship.
Forrestal’s crew battled and eventually extinguished the fire, with assistance from other Navy ships in the area. It took more than 24 hours to extinguish the fires below the flight deck. The losses caused by this incident were high and included 134 Sailors killed by the fire, and 161 injured. More than 20 aircraft were destroyed. The damage forced Forrestal to suspend combat operations and conduct temporary repairs in the Philippines before returning to the U.S. for permanent repair. Repairs to the ship cost approximately $72 million (equal to more than $528 million in 2017 dollars), and took approximately two years to complete.

A harrowing, 18-minute documentary produced by the U.S. Navy includes actual footage of the fire:


https://youtu.be/U6NnfRT_OZA

U.S. Navy investigators found that the carrier personnel were inadequately trained or equipped to cope with such an emergency at the time, oversights which have since been corrected with improved vessel design, damage control procedures, and equipment.
As McCain remembered the incident in his 1999 book Faith of My Fathers, the accidentally-launched Zuni missile hit his own plane, “tearing it open, igniting two hundred gallons of fuel that spilled onto the deck, and knocking two of my bombs to the deck,” though the official Navy account said that it hit a nearby Skyhawk piloted by Lt. Cdr. Fred White instead (some sources speculate that it may have struck both planes simultaneously). In any case, as the explosions and fire spread, McCain helped dispose of several bombs over the side of the vessel before receiving medical treatment, he wrote in his book. He praised what he described as the “heroics” of his fellow crewmen, whom he believed saved the Forrestal from sinking.
John McCain retired from the U.S. Navy with the rank of captain in 1981. Among his many commendations were a Distinguished Flying Cross noting his “exceptional courage, superb airmanship, and total devotion to duty” during a bombing raid over Hanoi in 1967, and a Legion of Merit with Combat “V” award “for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services to the Government of the United States while interned as a Prisoner of War in North Vietnam from October 1967 to March 1973.”
On 28 July 2017, McCain tweeted a video about the Forresthttps://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/status/890994861037559810al fire to commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of the catastrophe

• Madsen, Wayne. “Navy Releases McCain’s Records.”
  Wayne Madsen Report. 19 May 2008.
• McCain, John and Mark Salter. Faith of My Fathers: A Family Memoir.
  New York: Random House, 1999. ISBN 9780399590894 (pp. 177-8).
• Moon, Troy. “Heroism Recalled 50 Years After Deadly Fire Aboard USS Forrestal.”
  Pensacola News Journal. 29 July 2017.
• Stewart, Hank. “How the 1967 Fire on USS Forrestal Improved Future U.S. Navy Damage Control Readiness.”
  The Sextant. 28 July 2017.
• Yates, Teddy. “USS Forrestal — Trial by Fire.”
  The Sextant. 29 July 2015.
• U.S. Dept. of the Navy. “Investigation of Forrestal Fire.”
  1 August 1969.

TRB - You served and I respect that greatly. There are differing opinions. Above is from Snopes. Trump should let McCain rest in peace and Shut Up about it.

It was a horrible accident. I seriously doubt any pilot deliberately loosed a rocket at McCains's plane
or that McCain deliberately wet-started his jet and caused the fire. All those pilots knew the risks of fire on a carrier deck. It would be suicide to deliberately start an accident like the Forrestal disaster.


Thank You , TRB - for your Service.

I appreciate anyone's service to our country. My father was a disabled vet. . My problem is when you show Trump supporters the facts they just say (fill in the blank) news source is fake news. I have another website that shows he is a traitor.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by themystic

You have to remember that Trump is Gay. I dont think they let gays in the military back then. Cheney s daughter is Gay so you know hes at least a little gay

That explains why you never served as well.

[Austin Ellen]

Damn Lusty beat me to that one.

[FrankZappa]

Mystic, Trump has all of these people fooled. How stupid would you have to be to bankrupt a casino? These people actually believe he is a good businessman. If he was such a good businessman, he would not have to steal donor's money from his charity. He would not have had to done Taco Bell and Burger commercials or make money on a reality show. These dumbfucks don't realize there was a reason he would not show his tax returns it would prove how little money he has.His dad gave him 500 million. He fucked up the USFL. The USFL will making money playing in the summer. His dumbass moved it to compete with the NFL and bankrupted that. Trump University which was another scam and was shut down. Everything he touches turns to shit. He only owns 20 buildings and has gone bankrupt 6 times.


I wouldnt let this fucker manage my 401k account. He would fuck it up.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by FrankZappa

Mystic, Trump has all of these people fooled. How stupid would you have to be to bankrupt a casino? These people actually believe he is a good businessman. If he was such a good businessman, he would not have to steal donor's money from his charity. He would not have had to done Taco Bell and Burger commercials or make money on a reality show. These dumbfucks don't realize there was a reason he would not show his tax returns it would prove how little money he has.His dad gave him 500 million. He fucked up the USFL. The USFL will making money playing in the summer. His dumbass moved it to compete with the NFL and bankrupted that. Trump University which was another scam and was shut down. Everything he touches turns to shit. He only owns 20 buildings and has gone bankrupt 6 times.


I wouldnt let this fucker manage my 401k account. He would fuck it up.

Yeah his supporters are Anti Americans as well. Its really sad that these people dont care about America. Most of them have questionable morals as well

[Hotrod511]

Originally Posted by FrankZappa

Mystic, Trump has all of these people fooled. How stupid would you have to be to bankrupt a casino? These people actually believe he is a good businessman. If he was such a good businessman, he would not have to steal donor's money from his charity. He would not have had to done Taco Bell and Burger commercials or make money on a reality show. These dumbfucks don't realize there was a reason he would not show his tax returns it would prove how little money he has.His dad gave him 500 million. He fucked up the USFL. The USFL will making money playing in the summer. His dumbass moved it to compete with the NFL and bankrupted that. Trump University which was another scam and was shut down. Everything he touches turns to shit. He only owns 20 buildings and has gone bankrupt 6 times.


I wouldnt let this fucker manage my 401k account. He would fuck it up.

I see we have a new one Hate Trump Hate Trump bla bla bla

[themystic]

Originally Posted by lustylad

That explains why you never served as well.

I only play to win. The US Military is a bunch of losers. Look at IB and Nathan Phillips. You think Im joining that shit. Ha

Fuck they would let Moscow Ellen in

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by FrankZappa

How stupid would you have to be to bankrupt a casino?

Huh? What makes you think casinos are a safe investment that automatically turns a profit? I'm not saying Trump didn't make some bad decisions, but you don't know what you're talking about. The gaming business is risky and highly cyclical. Atlantic City was way over-built and all casinos were hammered by the 1991 recession.

By the way, declaring bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean you're stupid. Sometimes it's considered a smart business move. Look up strategic bankruptcy.

Originally Posted by FrankZappa

These dumbfucks don't realize there was a reason he would not show his tax returns it would prove how little money he has.

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about!

It was widely reported that Trump paid $38 million to Uncle Sam back in 2005 alone. That's more taxes paid in one year than all other Presidents combined.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...me-white-house