Update 5 Star Hotel Photographer Dilema

[tylorblake]

Hey Ladies and Gents,

I wanted to update you on what has transpired since the original post a few threads down.

The photographer called me today.One thing that I failed to mention is that this particular photographer originally required that I sign that her company owns my photos and that they have the copywrite to them.So, when I talked with her earlier today I got the feeling that she might be concerned about her own legal liability.She took photos at the hotel and did not get authorization to do so.However,in later more heated conversation which I will discuss later she told me that "she" personally does not own them that "The company"does......I am sure there is some legal thing here to protect her

Anyhow she offered to crop and blur the photos so that it is not visible that the shots were at that particular hotel. Keep in mind that the hotel said I must remove the photos. That would not be what I am doing, I am altering them. I will call the hotel after new pics are on site and see if that is acceptable.

Now I thought about this all day. I now don't have half of the photos that I chose(she said that there was nothing she could do to certain photos and I will not be able to use them. And the other half of the photos have lost a great deal of aesthetic quality due to the cropping and blurring.

Cut to my conversation about a half hour ago. She called back. She told me she spent the day working on it but could only do some. I said, no problem we can work on more later.She said "I am done" that she had done more than enough. I became heated and lost my control a bit. I asked if she would be comfortable with me giving her name to the hotel since she owns the photos. She accused me of threatening her.I asked if she did not do anything wrong how is that a threat.
I told her that I just wanted her to make this right ,that I paid her 2500 dollars for 24 photos that I chose to use on my website. I told her that I felt that the right thing to do is to do a makeup shoot or refund my money.She said absolutely not,she had done enough
I plan to use her edited blurred cropped photos(which are mediocre) and put them up on my site,then call hotel.

She has made it clear that providers are only 10% of her income,so I don't know how much of a threat it is to out her bad business to our community.What other playing cards do I have to get what I deserve....give her name to hotel?She tours so I could allert the major hotels that she is illegally taking photos. I hate playing hardball, but do not know what to do.


What can I do here,guys?I don't want to get into a legal battle.
What if the hotel says no-go to using any of the photos?

Desperately,
Tylor Blake
www.tylorblake.com:ranting:

[Nicolette Morgandy]

I seriously think you need to seek some form of legal advice before showing those photos (blurred & cropped) to the Hotel Representative; they aren't naive. Please re-think your position before contacting her with the edited version.

Damn, I can't believe that the photographer isn't even being the least bit remorseful to you regarding the situation she got you in. After all it was (in hobby terms) an in call service!

[discreetgent]

Legal battle is not where you want to go. However, I would at least investigate small claims court in Georgia. The fees for small claims are generally small, paperwork minimal, and no need for a lawyer.

In addition I would post who she is both here and on other review boards.

[Nicolette Morgandy]

Like you, I've worked with said photographer, and spent thousands of dollars and was not satisfied!

[pjorourke]

I think you should do the following:
1) Replace the photos on your website with the cropped ones -- for those that there are any kind of identifyable background (one I think was outdoors).

2) Prepare an email to the lady at the hotel notifying them that you have revised your website consistent with their request and that if they have any further issues, they should contact Ms. Photographer as she is the owner of the photos and controls them. Include her name and contact info.

3) I would then send the draft email to the photographer and inform her that unless you receive a refund within 5 days, you will send the email to the hotel. Let her know that if she does refund, you will deal with the hotel and keep her name out of it. She will realize that she has significant liability for all of the other shoots she has done in that hotel and other hotel in its broader family (i.e., Starwood.) She does not want to get involved in that cat fight -- it could break her.

4) Depending on how she responds to 3) either send the email or deal with them yourself.

5) Hire a new photographer who professionally handles these "little details".

6) If she doesn't refund. Post on every escort site you can find identifying her by name and letting the other ladies know to avoid her. Also warn them about this issue so they don't walk into the same trap. You should do the later whether she refunds or not -- if she does, just don't name her name.

That is what I'd do in your shoes. I'm curious to hear what the lawyers have to say (besides hire a lawyer).

[tylorblake]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

2) Prepare an email to the lady at the hotel notifying them that you have revised your website consistent with their request and that if they have any further issues, they should contact Ms. Photographer as she is the owner of the photos and controls them. Include her name and contact info.

3) I would then send the draft email to the photographer and inform her that unless you receive a refund within 5 days, you will send the email to the hotel. Let her know that if she does refund, you will deal with the hotel and keep her name out of it. She will realize that she has significant liability for all of the other shoots she has done in that hotel and other hotel in its broader family (i.e., Starwood.) She does not want to get involved in that cat fight -- it could break her.

Ok, I am following you PJ. But here is my concern. Its my website. Could they not take legal action against me.That could break me too.

[tylorblake]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

I think you should do the following:.


6) If she doesn't refund. Post on every escort site you can find identifying her by name and letting the other ladies know to avoid her. Also warn them about this issue so they don't walk into the same trap. You should do the later whether she refunds or not -- if she does, just don't name her name.

That is what I'd do in your shoes. I'm curious to hear what the lawyers have to say (besides hire a lawyer).

How much of a refund should I request?
And believe me, I will let everyone know.Everyone. If I have to I will follow where she is touring city by city and alert EVERY high end hotel that she is doing unauthorized photoshoot, I will start a blog, I will scream from the mountains.I am pissed!

[winemaker]

If you are displaying them, you do have some liability.

The person who should be worried, is the photographer / company, who owns them. YOu might be able to pay a lawyer a token amount for a letter to this company indicating liability WILL be passed on.

Of course, you might choose not to, but they might be more willing to work through a compromise with a legal letter as such.

[GneissGuy]

In the future, if you pay for a photoshoot, be sure you own all the copyrights to the pictures. Be sure the photographer has no rights at all to use your photographs. There's just too many ways for it to bite you in the ass. Do you really want a photographer to be able to sell your pictures to someone later in your life? Maybe with your real name attached?

Be sure it's in writing. In my opinion, any photographer who doesn't work this way is a scam artist.

The "photographer owns the photos" model is simply outmoded. There are too many good photographers who don't work this way to put up with it. It may cost you a little more up front, but it's probably cheaper in the long run.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by tylorblake

How much of a refund should I request?
And believe me, I will let everyone know.Everyone. If I have to I will follow where she is touring city by city and alert EVERY high end hotel that she is doing unauthorized photoshoot, I will start a blog, I will scream from the mountains.I am pissed!

I can appreciate your emotions & sometimes I get pissed off and mostly fantasize about a scorched earth response. After I cool down I usually decide on a less aggressive approach and to the extent you want to play hardball, can I suggest a more private approach?

You may find yourself of the other end of a legal matter whether it has merit or not (and find yourself needing to hire a &%* *&^$^@#ing lawyer).

You may also do collateral damage to some of your "sisters" in the escort world and find yourself no longer welcome or worse. Consider if you send the photographer's work of other escorts taken at the same 5star family to the same 5star representative you create hell for the photographer but also the escort. Believe me there will be enough pissed to go around.

[charlestudor2005]

A couple of things struck me, but I still haven't slept on it:

1. I think you should assume the hotel would say no. Even if it doesn't, your set of photos is pretty much shot. In any event, you need to get the hotel's OK to the new photos before, not after, you post them, and in writing.
2. Although she says the pics are owned by a company, not by her, I would wager she is the sole shareholder in the company. Going after the company is like going after her--just a different name. A lot of these shops are sole proprietorships. If she has a nationwide name like Olan Mills, they may not know she is doing photographs for the escort community, and may not like it. They could have a clause in the franchise contract that forbids it.
3. I think you should demand nothing less than a full re-shoot or a full refund. You need to make up your mind that you need to wage your war with a scorched earth policy and let her know. It may mean (as much as you might detest it) picketing outside her place of business. Be sure to get the appropriate permits first. You can hit her 10% of providers here, but when you appear outside her place of business, you're cutting into the other 90%.
4. There is a concept in commercial law called "cover." You send her a writing (CMRRR) rejecting the goods she submitted and telling her she has a certain amount of time (normally around 10 days) to make a full refund or do a complete reshoot. If she doesn't, you say in the letter that you will hire one of her competitors and sue her for the costs of hiring the competitor. Don't say who and don't say how much. Leave that to her imagination.
5. I would not alert the hotels. That might open you up to a slander suit, which could get messy.

For the most part, I agree with PJ.

Good Luck,

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by tylorblake

Ok, I am following you PJ. But here is my concern. Its my website. Could they not take legal action against me.That could break me too.

Worst case, your website is missing some pics until you get new ones shot.

I suspect the hotel will be reasonable if you cooperate with them. They are no more interested in a pissing contest than you are. They just don't want pictures that are clearly shot in their hotel showing up on an escort site.

The pics woven into your site are largely unidentifiable -- the only ones that are are the one on your pages labeled boudoir and indulgences. You are going to have to change those and some of the gallery pics (mainly 2,3,9,10,12,13 and 15). The others could have been shot anywhere. I don't think these people want to screw you -- they could have approached this much worse. Change the ones that are problematic and get back with the lady. Let her know that you are going to do a new shoot somewhere else (where you have authorization) and will eventually replace everything. In the mean time, as long as you get the worst offenders (i.e., the ones where they have the clearest case), they will probably be satisfied. The important thing is to not lose your temper with them and act reasonable. If you act professionally, they will too. Lets face it, the folks in the hotel biz know whats what. If they ran all the escorts out of their hotels, they would probably lose 20% of their business.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

A couple of things struck me, but I still haven't slept on it:
I think you should demand nothing less than a full re-shoot or a full refund. You need to make up your mind that you need to wage your war with a scorched earth policy and let her know. It may mean (as much as you might detest it) picketing outside her place of business. Be sure to get the appropriate permits first. You can hit her 10% of providers here, but when you appear outside her place of business, you're cutting into the other 90%.

The photographer in question travels a lot so I doubt setting up outside her place of business has any real relevance. My guess is the photographer shoots mostly at locations.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

A couple of things struck me, but I still haven't slept on it:[LIST=1][*]I think you should demand nothing less than a full re-shoot or a full refund. You need to make up your mind that you need to wage your war with a scorched earth policy and let her know. It may mean (as much as you might detest it) picketing outside her place of business. Be sure to get the appropriate permits first. You can hit her 10% of providers here, but when you appear outside her place of business, you're cutting into the other 90%.
,

agree with 1,2,4 &5...but I struggle with this....

sure, revenge can be sweet but think about what this costs you out of pocket and soft costs like time (your time is valuable, right), energy & stress...

...not to mention your profession values discretion...how visable do you want to make "Tylor" to the general public?

[tylorblake]

It has been made aware to me by a kind fellow provider that she was sent an email announcing her retirement. She named me Tylor Blake as the"bad apple"......funny cause never once did I ever mention her name

It is [PM the poster for this info] for those that have yet to figure it out. She photographs many of the upcscale companions across the US......un freekin believable.

I feel like I tryed to handle this whole situation with tact and respect........now she is slandering me
A friend will be posting ******** email that I am sure has reached many