R.I.P. George H. W. Bush.

[Old-T]

Ellen, your racoon story sounds very much like Germany and their reasons for electing Hitler. "ANYTHING must be better that THIS!" But it wasn't.

And it is usually people who believe in simple answers to complex problems who blindly follow someone who says they have a simple solution. Joe McCarthy's simple list of commies. The Nazi's simple answer to Germany's problems. Mao's simple answer to Chinese bureaucracy. Trump's simple answer to everything.

Yes, racoons are not a good thing to have, but you don't open your home to a grizzly to get rid of the racoons. At least sane folks don't.

And while Supercold isn't right on every point, he is right on most of them. Check the dats about how illegals come into the US--I know it doesn't match your wishes (the hoards of Hispanics rushing the gates) but most would never see the wall, much less be stopped by it.

Simple question: If Trump is this great problem solver, why was the wall not started two years ago when he had a REP Senate and House? Why is he only throwing a big temper tantrum now? I think if you are honest you know the answer--because now he can blame it on the DEMs, whereas for two years he couldn't blame anyone but himself.

He is a fraud, always has been. If you think he cares one bit about you or anyone who doesn't put $$$ into his pocket you are being blind to everything around you.

[Austin Ellen]

Old T,
Please, it's nothing like Nazi Germany. I've shared before how my mom was in the war, ect and it's not even remotley similar. It's an insult to survivors of the war to compare the two. In my opinion.

As far as the wall - we don't want illegals here. We need to do something and nobody else has had a solution to this problem. I'm talking about illegals. For some reason, this confuses some people. You used the word - Hispanic. If they are coming here legally from outside the U.S. - there's no problem. But the illegals--come on - you really don't think that's a problem? Really? Trump wanted to build the wall when he first came into office. It didn't happen due to whatever but it's happening now. And yes, he wants to blame it on the dems - they blame him for everything else. It's a blame game in Washington D.C. So we just have to move forward.

And I realize that some of these issues are complex problems that do not have simple answers. Nobody said there were simple answers.

Now - I know Trump does not care for me personally but he cares for our country - he is a patriot. He does this job for free so I really hope he is making money somewhere else and I don't have a problem with that. I've done very well under Trump whereas under Obama I was laid off from my employment and almost went broke. So there's that.

Either way I do love the Trumpster. He's an alpha male. And it's just in my nature to gravitate to alpha males.

We shall see who the Democrats put up shortly and then we'll see how that plays out. But I'm voting for my Trumpster.

Originally Posted by Old-T

Ellen, your racoon story sounds very much like Germany and their reasons for electing Hitler. "ANYTHING must be better that THIS!" But it wasn't.

And it is usually people who believe in simple answers to complex problems who blindly follow someone who says they have a simple solution. Joe McCarthy's simple list of commies. The Nazi's simple answer to Germany's problems. Mao's simple answer to Chinese bureaucracy. Trump's simple answer to everything.

Yes, racoons are not a good thing to have, but you don't open your home to a grizzly to get rid of the racoons. At least sane folks don't.

And while Supercold isn't right on every point, he is right on most of them. Check the dats about how illegals come into the US--I know it doesn't match your wishes (the hoards of Hispanics rushing the gates) but most would never see the wall, much less be stopped by it.

Simple question: If Trump is this great problem solver, why was the wall not started two years ago when he had a REP Senate and House? Why is he only throwing a big temper tantrum now? I think if you are honest you know the answer--because now he can blame it on the DEMs, whereas for two years he couldn't blame anyone but himself.

He is a fraud, always has been. If you think he cares one bit about you or anyone who doesn't put $$$ into his pocket you are being blind to everything around you.

[supercold1]

Ellen, I just want to point out that you said absolutely nothing of substance or anything factual that disputes our position. All you've done is reiterate the lies and rhetoric that you believe, without any foundation.

I know that YOU believe you gravitate towards alpha males, but you wouldn't know one if it bit you in the ass. Let me put it to you this way: An ALPHA male gets a blow job in the White House, WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY HUSH MONEY OR ANYTHING FOR THAT MATTER, his wife stays with him after finding out, and serves out his term even after being impeached.

A beta cuck has to pay a pornstar to stay quiet about how small his penis is, and goes to Russia to get peed on.

[Austin Ellen]

Ummmm, Supercold, that's an insult. I got pointed for alot less then what you posted. You're about to get pointed bud.I am going to refrain from insulting you back because I understand and comprehend the new rules here on Eccie.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by Austin Ellen

Old T,
Please, it's nothing like Nazi Germany. I've shared before how my mom was in the war, ect and it's not even remotley similar. It's an insult to survivors of the war to compare the two. In my opinion.
I've been looking for it but can't find it at the moment, but upon Trump winning the election, one of the Von Trapp family did make a comparison using Trump and Nazi germany.

As far as the wall - we don't want illegals here. We need to do something and nobody else has had a solution to this problem. I'm talking about illegals. For some reason, this confuses some people. You used the word - Hispanic. If they are coming here legally from outside the U.S. - there's no problem. But the illegals--come on - you really don't think that's a problem? Really? Trump wanted to build the wall when he first came into office. It didn't happen due to whatever but it's happening now. And yes, he wants to blame it on the dems - they blame him for everything else. It's a blame game in Washington D.C. So we just have to move forward.

No question that talking about illegal immigrants is a hot button topic. One offfered solution is a Wall. Has been mentioned/promised in the past. But not done. for the cost of it, there are *DEFINITELY* better uses for implementing a solution that a Wall. If he *REALLY* wanted to build this Wall, it would have already been done, as pointed out to you multiple times, when the Repubs controlled both Houses. "Whatever" was not the reason why it didn't happen. And he his willing to put the country in ruins in an attempt to get his way. I repeat, put this country in ruins. There is no reason for so many people to not collect a paycheck, and thousands of them being forced to work without pay. The Dems are willing to talk about other means of handling the border without so many people suffering. But NO! Trump only wants a Wall. And *I* don't support that because HE SAID IT WOULD BE PAID FOR BY MEXICO. Well, have him keep his promise. If not, *I* won't pay for an Orange Trolls vanity because he doesn't know how to make a deal.

And I realize that some of these issues are complex problems that do not have simple answers. Nobody said there were simple answers. That is one of the FEW statement you posted that is cognizant.

Now - I know Trump does not care for me personally but he cares for our country - he is a patriot. He does this job for free so I really hope he is making money somewhere else and I don't have a problem with that. I've done very well under Trump whereas under Obama I was laid off from my employment and almost went broke. So there's that.

On my Social Media when I found out Manafort was going to be on his team (this is before Trump was elected), I pulled up and posted a Ven Diagram that showed his multiple connections with Russia and alluded to influence. Guess what, his legal team has admitted to it. By there own stupid mistake. And it is looking more like you mean Comrade instead of Patriot. And he is not doing this job free. He just isn't taking the salary. Look at what he is stiffing the govt for on housing the Secret Service at Trump Tower. Don't go crying about the people who have already commented on that. And why are you whining about being laid off under Obama? You expect the current people who are being denied their paycheck by a petulant temper tantrum man(?) child to lose their means of living also? Don't complain. You sound like you should be pitied and the hell with the current furloughed govt workers.

Either way I do love the Trumpster. He's an alpha male. If being President mean alpha, yes. Acting, you don't want to hear it because i think someone said it well enough.
And it's just in my nature to gravitate to alpha males.


We shall see who the Democrats put up shortly and then we'll see how that plays out. But I'm voting for my Trumpster.

Ellen, you consistently ignore facts that people have posted and only return the intellectual content of cornflakes.

I will say that Trump has got the right idea on somethings. His implementation is mostly horrendous. Top of my head, we never should have been in Syria. That has alway been Russias' baby. I'll leave it at that since there is more to say on it.
China, they have always shafted us on trade. We are to blame a bit since Americans demand things at the lowest price. Well, you ain't going to get made in the US of A stuff competing with China work force conditions.
Yes, immigration. But a Wall is the absolute worse cost/benefit analysis result. OPEN YOUR EYES ON THAT.

Mostly, you are termendously blind to his corrupt nature. The history of it has been there for decades before he took office and is documented.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Austin Ellen

The dems have their heads up their ass. It's their fault and they will have to own it.

Then why do 53% of the people polled blame Trump and the Republicans for the shutdown and 29% blame Democrats?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/2564178002/

Trump Took Responsibility for the Shutdown, and Voters Say It’s His


Six surveys taken since the partial government closure began last month tell a consistent story -- half or more Americans believe Trump and his party are responsible for the shutdown, while one-third or fewer point the finger at Democrats.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...give-it-to-him

This could be another nail in Trump's re-election coffin. Keep the shutdown going Donald. You're losing votes every day.

[pussycat]

I don't favor the wall and I don't like the shutdown. But the way government is supposed to work is based on compromise. If the President wants 5 billion dollars for a wall and the opposition wants nothing then what they're suppose to do is negotiate a compromise, say 2 billion for a wall. But that's not what the Dems are doing. When Trump meets with them they say "Nothing for the wall. Nothing. It's our way or the highway. Go to hell." The reason for this is because they see the polls. They know the public is blaming Trump, so the longer the shut down goes on the more it will favor them.

[Old-T]

Either the shutdown is his fault, or he lied repeatedly when he said it was his fault.

Of course it's his fault, and he lies about his previous claims as well.
Did you expect any different from him? [/COLOR][/I]

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by pussycat

I don't favor the wall and I don't like the shutdown. But the way government is supposed to work is based on compromise. If the President wants 5 billion dollars for a wall and the opposition wants nothing then what they're suppose to do is negotiate a compromise, say 2 billion for a wall. But that's not what the Dems are doing. When Trump meets with them they say "Nothing for the wall. Nothing. It's our way or the highway. Go to hell." The reason for this is because they see the polls. They know the public is blaming Trump, so the longer the shut down goes on the more it will favor them.

You are right, we need the sides to discuss and compromise. But compromise need not be 2.5B for a wall. It could be 5B for effective border security. When the data shows a wall will not fix the problem, why insist on a wall--except because Trump's ego gets in the way.

Both sides are playing politics at the expense of the country, but it is the REP Senate that will not even enter bills for debate.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by Old-T

... When the data shows a wall will not fix the problem, why insist on a wall--except because Trump's ego gets in the way....

A paper that says Walls don't work. Ironic thing is, the person that wrote the paper that Trump is using that says Walls are near 100% effective, says that is not true. Another lie from Fearless Leader????

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by pussycat

I don't favor the wall and I don't like the shutdown. But the way government is supposed to work is based on compromise. If the President wants 5 billion dollars for a wall and the opposition wants nothing then what they're suppose to do is negotiate a compromise, say 2 billion for a wall. But that's not what the Dems are doing. When Trump meets with them they say "Nothing for the wall. Nothing. It's our way or the highway. Go to hell." The reason for this is because they see the polls. They know the public is blaming Trump, so the longer the shut down goes on the more it will favor them.

Compromise is NOT always the answer. If people view something as wrong, then it should not be supported.

The majority of the people in this country do NOT think that the wall as defined by Trump is the best way to stop illegal immigration into this country. They may be wrong but our elected representatives (POTUS and Congress) should reflect the will of the people.

I'll say it again -- the reason Trump is staying steadfast on the wall is that it is the ONE major campaign promise that he would be able to claim success on if it is built. No repeal/replace of Obamacare. Renegotiation of NAFTA a big zero. Tax reform package that everyone can see favors the rich and corporations. Instead we have tariffs which are driving up the price of many of the products we are buying.

BTW. the latest poll on the "wall" and the shutdown.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

A paper that says Walls don't work. Ironic thing is, the person that wrote the paper that Trump is using that says Walls are near 100% effective, says that is not true. Another lie from Fearless Leader????

Tell me it ain't so!!!

You mean that Trump continues to lie? No, I can't believe that!!!

You mean the federal workers who are now delinquent on their bills because of him DON'T support the government shutdown? BUT HE SAID THEY DO!

You mean all those former presidents who he talked with, and who told him he is in the right, DIDN'T really talk with him at all?? SHOCKING!! SHOCKING I SAY!!!!

The man cannot help but lie, even when it does no good and there is no reason for him to do so. Lying is part of who he is.

[pussycat]

"Wrong?" as in "immoral?"

We're talking about extending a wall, vast portions have been assembled already and funded by other Presidents and Congress. All Trump is proposing is completing and extending it.

As for compromise "not being the answer" then what is the answer?

Compromise is always the answer in negotiations. It's either that or take out your pistols and start firing.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by Austin Ellen

Old T,
Please, it's nothing like Nazi Germany. I've shared before how my mom was in the war, ect and it's not even remotley similar. It's an insult to survivors of the war to compare the two. In my opinion.

Ellen, please go back and read what I said, not the automatic reaction people have whenever someone mentions the Nazis.

I am sorry your mother went through that. I had relatives who survived the Nazis, and some who did not. They were not Jews, but the Nazis had a lot of groups in their Untermenchen. And the community I grew up in had many, many Jews, Poles, and others who had lived through the horrors of the Nazis. But my reference was clearly to the over simplistic promise of an easy answer (in this case, the wall) to complex problems (economy, immigration: who, how much, how, and what immigrants should or should not expect). And the brainwashing lies that the "leader" spews forth, knowing they are lies but not caring. In that way Trump IS exactly like Joseph Goebbels.

I would recommend a book to you: A Mind In Prison by Bruno Manz. He was a teenager in Nazi Germany, and this is a reflection back as an old man on how the propaganda of Goebbels, etc., led a whole population astray. The similarity to Trump's lies are scary.

No, I have never implied Trump is building secret concentration camps, but he is spewing group-hate to blame all our ills on a group of "Them", and making up fake information, fake testimonials, and as we are seeing this morning, fake poll results, to lie to those too ignorant, too lazy, or too blind to see what he is doing.


Blindly following any leader who is a known liar is insulting to the people who did not survive the holocaust and other despotic dictators.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by pussycat

"Wrong?" as in "immoral?"

We're talking about extending a wall, vast portions have been assembled already and funded by other Presidents and Congress. All Trump is proposing is completing and extending it.

As for compromise "not being the answer" then what is the answer?

Compromise is always the answer in negotiations. It's either that or take out your pistols and start firing.

If I listen, I hear sane voices on both sides acknowledging that border security is important--once we define what that actually means. But to say a wall in one place must be the right answer because a wall is the right answer in a different place is simpleminded.

Most illegal aliens did not sneak across the US-MEX border, so spending whatever $$$ is to be spent on a wall is far from the best/smartest/right answer.


Compromise need not be about how much, but about how any amount is spent. But before any of that we need the discussion that both sides have refused to have:

--HOW MANY immigrants does the country want to absorb (per month or year)?

--WHAT KIND of immigrants do we want? Ages, skills, families, refugees, education, ……?

--WHAT IS a reasonable process for accepting people?

--WHAT RESPONSIBILITIES does the gov't have and not have for immigrants?

First we need to agree on what we are trying to accomplish, THEN we can talk about the right way to accomplish it.

Right now I see LWWs who want NO limitation on who comes in, and I see Trump/RWWs who would like the number to be zero. THAT is where we need rational compromise first.